Puerto Rico- moving towards statehood?
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  Puerto Rico- moving towards statehood?
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Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon
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« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2004, 03:16:54 PM »

Puerto Rico has a very active Young Republican federation and holds 2 of the 11 seats on the national YR board.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2004, 11:37:08 PM »

And what could be more American than a results map on their election commission web site!

http://196.42.5.2/principal.aspx?Cargo=GOB&Nivel=MAPA&L2=DS
And the PDP is red and PNP is blue, just like we'd expect on the Atlas. Smiley
Not only that, but the PIP is green, but others are black instead of orange. Sad
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A18
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« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2004, 11:41:39 PM »

I guess let them in if they want in. But we should also use it as an opportunity to enlarge the House of Representatives.
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Fritz
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« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2004, 09:53:11 AM »

I will post weekly updates from the Puerto Rico Herald here.  This gets more interesting every week....

The Recount: A Death of a Thousand Cuts

November 19, 2004
Copyright © 2004 PUERTO RICO HERALD. All Rights Reserved. 

As the week closes, the Puerto Rican populace is still far from knowing who will be its next governor and, as events are playing out, the recount of votes to determine the winner is still weeks – if not months – away. There has yet to be a ballot-by-ballot recount of the 1,968,503 votes cast. After initial wrangling with officials of the three political parties, and several changes in his announced position, State Elections Commission (CEE) President, Aurelio Gracia, ultimately declared that a "general recount" of the island’s 7,268 polling places (colegios) scattered within its 110 precincts should precede any review of each and every vote.

The recount was called automatically when Popular Democratic Party (PDP) candidate Aníbal Acevedo Vilá’s vote margin over New Progressive Party (NPP) candidate Pedro Rosselló was less than 0.5%. According to the CEE, if the "general recount" should increase either candidate’s winning margin by more than that percentage, then a vote-by-vote recount will not be held. This result, however, appears unlikely. The recount has been ongoing for two weeks and so far only about 30% of the colegios have been surveyed, mostly in the San Juan area. The PDP favors limiting the process to a "general recount," while the NPP wants every vote cast to be counted.

The convoluted recount process has occasioned a partisan political circus on the island. Acevedo Vilá, presuming himself to be the ultimate victor, has launched a full-scale transition process. Pedro Rosselló, at first scornful of his rival’s public posturing, has now "gone public" with calls for an investigation of election fraud. Numerous lawsuits have been filed in Commonwealth and Federal courts. After several incidents of boisterous behavior at the CEE, political candidates have been barred from observing the recount process. Calls have gone forth to Washington for the election to be investigated by federal authorities. Accusations and political rhetoric have reached pre-election decibel levels.

This painful process is beginning to remind Puerto Ricans of the ancient Chinese torture in which the condemned victim is slowly put to death by means of 1000 small -- but cumulatively lethal -- knife cuts.

On Tuesday, New Progressive Party (NPP) candidate Pedro Rosselló broke his post election silence in a television discourse, accusing the Popular Democratic Party (PDP) of "fraud," suggesting that during the initial vote count its precinct workers improperly and illegally marked ballots intended to count for the Puerto Rican Independence Party (PIP) candidate Rubén Berríos, in the column for PDP candidate Aníbal Acevedo Vilá. Also, the NPP has appealed to the federal court that the "general recount" and the vote-by-vote review should be done simultaneously, and the government transition led by Acevedo Vilá should be halted.

A major bone of contention to emerge since November 2nd is how "mixed vote" ballots are to be treated in the overall count. The official ballot used on November 2nd provided voters the choice to either mark their ballots for each candidate for each office regardless of party or, by marking a box under the logo of a given political party, automatically selecting all candidates from that party who appeared on the ballot. Once that "party box" is checked, the voter is finished and no other marks on the ballot should be made.

After checking the "party box," should the voter continue to make marks for candidates from other political parties, he/she has made a "double vote," which, in the opinion of the NPP has rendered the ballot technically invalid. The PDP argues that the additional marks represent the "real intention of the voter" and should count for the candidates favored by the additional marks.

Most "mixed votes" are assumed to be cast by Puerto Rico Independence Party (PIP) voters who, by marking the "party box," voted for PIP candidate Rubén Berríos for governor and then selected another candidate for the same office, presumably PDP candidate Aníbal Acevedo Vilá. If these "mixed votes" are permitted to be counted, an automatic conflict would occur between the PIP and PDP candidates. If they are judged to be invalid, it could be an advantage for NPP candidate Pedro Rosselló.

No one can know how many "mixed votes" have been cast until a "vote by vote" recount is undertaken, and there is no way of knowing how they were evaluated by vote counters at the colegio level. The "mixed votes" are considered to be of enormous importance for all three candidates. The PIP hopes to increase its vote count in order to exceed the 3% of total vote and maintain its status as an official party, the PDP is banking on a count that increases Acevedo Vilá’s margin over Rosselló to beyond 0.5% and the NPP wants to see the vote count increase for Rosselló and decrease for the PDP candidates, so as to eventually win the general election and take La Fortaleza.

PIP activists have filed suit locally, demanding that the "mixed votes" be counted, saying that they had cast ballots in that fashion, believing that their vote for the PDP candidate would be registered. NPP lawyers argue that they are technically illegal, since a "mixed vote" is, in effect, a double vote and awarding it to either is unfair to both. The position of the PDP is that precedence is on their side since "double votes" have been considered valid in the past and counted as votes for the candidate additionally marked.

Yesterday, the lawsuit filed by Rosselló and the NPP was heard by federal judge Daniel Dominguez who asked the plaintiffs to present evidence as to why the claims should be adjudicated by a federal court instead of in a local jurisdiction. That request would seem to indicate that the matter will go on for some days or weeks before Judge Dominguez. Still up in the air is whether the "mixed votes" should be counted at the discretion of the CEE, counted in favor of the straight party vote, counted in favor of the additional marks made on the ballot or that the "mixed votes" should be declared invalid. One press estimate puts the number of possible "mixed vote" ballots at 28,000.
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Fritz
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« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2004, 07:56:25 PM »

This "mixed vote" fiasco sounds like a problem that was easily avoidable- I wonder whose bright idea it was to design the ballot that way?

Have ballots like this ever been used in any actual state (check the party box to vote for all party candidates)Huh
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2004, 03:52:39 PM »

This "mixed vote" fiasco sounds like a problem that was easily avoidable- I wonder whose bright idea it was to design the ballot that way?

Have ballots like this ever been used in any actual state (check the party box to vote for all party candidates)Huh

Yes.  It's used here in SC.  And under SC law if a mixed vote happens, then the ballot for that office is voided since it is treated as  if he voted for two candidates in that election.
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jimrtex
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« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2004, 07:11:07 AM »

This "mixed vote" fiasco sounds like a problem that was easily avoidable- I wonder whose bright idea it was to design the ballot that way?

Have ballots like this ever been used in any actual state (check the party box to vote for all party candidates)Huh
Straight ticket voting is fairly common in the South, but typically you can override the vote in an individual race.   There have been repeated instances where counting has been messed up on machine voting.  Of course it may have been messed up on hand counts.  A ballot that
is marked:

Straight Ticket
[X] Democrat
[  ] Republican

President
[  ] Kerry
[  ] Bush

is a vote for Kerry, as is this one:

[X] Democrat
[  ] Republican

President
[X] Kerry
[  ] Bush

But this one is for

Straight Ticket
[X] Democrat
[  ] Republican

President
[  ] Kerry
[X] Bush

Is a legal vote for Bush.  So as you count ballots, you have to look at the marks for each race, and if nothing is marked check to see if a straight party box is marked (and there is a candidate of that party in the particular race).

Many voters probably simply mark the straight ticket box, and don't bother with the rest of the races.  But on voting machines, you may have to scroll through all the individual races.  If you did a literal translation of the paper ballot, you would leave the boxes for each race blank.  Someone who had selected a Democrat straight ticket would see:

[  ] Bush
[  ] Kerry

which might have given them the impression that their straight ticket vote hadn't taken effect.   So some machines are programmed in effect to transfer the straight ticket vote to the individual races.  If you did want to vote for Bush, then you would have to switch the vote.

When your party doesn't field a candidate in a race, then a straight ticket ballot has no effect on that race.  But if the machine displays who you have voted in each race, it will give a warning about No Vote Registered.

There have been reports of some voters voting a straight ticket ballot, and in the process of trying to get to the end of the ballot for some non-partisan ballot issues, have voted in the next candidate's race on the ballot, or in some cases un-voting.

There have been reports of misprogrammed machine counts ignoring straight ticket votes, or counting straight ticket votes twice.
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LesterMaddox
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« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2004, 01:48:22 AM »

If it'll encourage them to stay on their island, I'd be all for it, but since I don't think it would, we ought to force independence on them.  It's not like they'll be able to just walk across the border like the Mexicans do.
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Alcon
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« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2004, 03:18:02 AM »

If it'll encourage them to stay on their island, I'd be all for it, but since I don't think it would, we ought to force independence on them.  It's not like they'll be able to just walk across the border like the Mexicans do.

You do know that they are already American citizens, right...? There is not really a "border."
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aufs klo
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« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2004, 06:07:59 PM »

Wow, talk about racisim, or perhaps politics...  I , personally, think it would be great to admit the Puerto Ricians (or whatever) as a state.  Not only would it be great to add a large amount of liberals to the country, (less cynically) I think it would be great to give them the same rights to participate in government as in Alaska and Hawaii.  I'm pro-stathood for all our territories, as it would enhance our image out in the Pacific, but it would also just be nice to let our terratories participate in our democratic-republic.
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LesterMaddox
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« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2004, 01:44:28 AM »

Not racism or politics but culture. Legally, Puerto Ricans may be Americans, but not culturally.  Mexicans are neither.  When you take a look at all the palces in the world that have ethnic strife the last thing in the world the US needs is to become another multi-ethnic powder keg waiting to explode.  We need to slow down immigration to rate at which immigrants can be assimilated.  Immigration, especially Hispanic immigration, is too high right now for assimilation to keep up with the influx.  It's also culture and not skin tone that's at the root of our race problems.  For over three centuries black and white have been two seperate cultures in America, and there is no sign of them melting into a single culture, although each keeps borrowing from the other.
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Fritz
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« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2004, 10:56:17 AM »

Wow.  Lester's post is so blatantly racist, it doesn't deserve an intelligent resopnse.

Moving on, here's the latest news on the recount of the Governor's race:

The Recount: Two Courts Weigh In: A Crisis Brewing

November 26, 2004
Copyright © 2004 PUERTO RICO HERALD. All Rights Reserved. 

As this week began, two recounts of the November 2nd vote in Puerto Rico were underway, ordered by two Puerto Rican courts with separate authority -- and apparently different agendas -- the U.S. Federal Court in San Juan and the Puerto Rico Supreme Court. In response to the court orders, the State Elections Commission (CEE) continued its "general recount," of the 7,373 colegios (voting places) throughout the island while, at the same time, going back to "Colegio # 1" in San Juan to begin a ballot-by-ballot review of every one of the nearly 2 million votes cast.

CEE President, Aurelio Gracia, who had initially rejected the idea of a vote-by-vote recount immediately after the election, was philosophical, concluding that the court orders were timely. "It was looking more and more like a recount would be necessary," he told reporters. He predicted that the count would not be finished until late December.

A major difference between the two court orders related to the estimated 28,000 "mixed votes" thought to be speckled throughout island’s colegios. These are ballots on which the voter placed a mark under a party logo, apparently intending to select the entire slate of that party’s candidates for all offices, but additionally marked candidates from another party for Governor and Resident Commissioner. The Puerto Rico Supreme Court ordered that these votes be counted and credited to the candidates for whom the specific marks were made.

Then, on Tuesday, Judge Daniel Domínguez ruled that the U.S. Federal Courts would assume jurisdiction in the issue of the mixed votes and ordered that the CEE proceed to count the mixed votes but not to adjudicate their validity. Further, they are to be set aside for ultimate consideration by the federal courts. At the same time, he ordered the Puerto Rico Supreme Court to cease acting in the disposition of the "mixed votes." Previously, the local high court had ruled that the mixed votes should be counted and adjudicated by the CEE. Judge Domínguez’ order countermands that process.

How the mixed votes are finally adjudicated will almost surely affect the outcome of the election. If the mixed votes are allowed to stand, Acevedo will likely hold the razor thin plurality he enjoyed on Election Night. If the mixed votes are ruled to be null and void, Rosselló will presumably win with a comfortable plurality. Another possibility is that the federal court could decide that the mixed votes should count for the party selected – in this case the PIP – and Ruben Berríos will have received some 4% of the total vote, enough to qualify the Independent Party to remain as an official Puerto Rican political party.

The federal court’s assumption of jurisdiction over the mixed votes, as well as other aspects of the recount process, is inflaming the political rhetoric on the island.

Already, spokespersons of the political parties are either praising or protesting the court rulings depending upon how they support their positions.

When the federal court ruled last Saturday that the vote-by-vote recount should begin, PDP "provisional winner" Acevedo Vilá, acknowledged that the federal court order needed to be respected, but said he was disappointed by it because it would delay the final outcome. When the same court’s decision to take control of the mixed vote issue came down, the PDP candidate dispatched his lawyers to the federal appellate court in Boston to ask that it be overturned.

Predictably, the NPP’s spokesman, Javier Maymi, expressed satisfaction that two of the petitions that his party had made to the federal court had been granted. The third issue that the NPP brought before Judge Domínguez related to Acevedo Vilá’s transition process, but it is unlikely that the federal courts will intervene in that matter.

The PIP reaction to the court decisions came from its representative on the CEE, Commissioner Juan Dalmau. He was quoted by the Associated Press as saying that if the election is ultimately decided by a federal judge that it would constitute "the crudest success of the colonialism in Puerto Rico."

In a press conference, Judge Domínguez expressed surprise that the Puerto Rico Supreme Court had issued a ruling on the mixed votes, since it had been under his court’s jurisdiction. He called the local court’s action an "insult." A majority of the sitting judges of the Puerto Rico high court were placed there by Governors of the Popular Democratic Party (PDP) that has much to gain if the mixed votes are adjudicated as valid, since apparently most of the disputed ballots were cast by Puerto Rico Independence Party voters who additionally marked for PDP candidate Aníbal Acevedo Vilá.

Judge Domínguez made the decision to adjudicate the mixed votes after reaching the conclusion that the NPP litigation initially complied with the "one man, one vote" precedent set by the U.S. Supreme Court in the Y-2000 national presidential election between George W. Bush and Al Gore. In a split decision, the U.S. high court overruled the Florida Supreme Court and intervened to stop the vote recount then underway in that state, thereby giving Florida’s electoral votes to Bush and the entire election to the Republican candidate.

At the time of the federal court decision on Tuesday, the "general count" of approximately 40% of the colegios had the New Progressive Party (NPP) candidate Pedro Rosselló leading Popular Democratic Party (PDP) candidate Aníbal Acevedo Vilá by a margin of 48.99% to 47.61%.

The CEE stopped the vote recount on Tuesday afternoon to await final instructions by the federal court regarding the mixed votes. The recount process will begin again on Monday to recount all the votes cast on Election Day, to check the accuracy of the reporting done by each colegio to its corresponding precinct and each precinct’s tally sheet to the State Elections Commission and, finally, to count the mixed votes and set them aside without crediting them to any candidate and without revealing how they were marked. That will be for the federal courts to decide.

Courtroom observers are predicting that Judge Domínguez’ decision will rest on three factors: if the mixed votes were counted in the same way in each colegio, what instructions -- if any -- were given to voters as to how and if their mixed votes would be counted and, finally, what has been the clear precedent about the counting of mixed votes in previous elections.
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LesterMaddox
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« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2004, 01:23:31 AM »

Wow.  Lester's post is so blatantly racist, it doesn't deserve an intelligent resopnse.

Meaning that you couldn't come up with an intelligent response, so you decided to insult the messenger instead.

If it's racist to acknowledge the self-evident fact that black and white are two cultures living side by side in America, so be it.  If you fail to see that fact, go visit a church this morning and tell me how integrated it is (or more likely isn't).  Having more than one cultural group in the same area is an invitation to disaster.  Doesn't mean that the invitation will be accepted, as diaster is a busy fellow, with far more invitations than he can possibly accept.
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A18
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« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2004, 01:37:25 AM »

Lester is right about everyone who's legally an American not being culturally an American. Not all territories should become states, and the person who said that should be hung.

The question is, is PUERTO RICO American enough to become a state. I don't know.
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LesterMaddox
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« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2004, 01:45:43 AM »

Not all territories should become states, and the person who said that should be hung.
Don't need to be that drastic.  Just deport them to Bosnia, Cote d'Ivoire, Darfur, Kashmir, Rwanda, or the like, so they can see for themselves that different cultures can always find a way to live together in harmony.
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Fritz
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« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2004, 04:42:08 PM »

Does anybody have a legal opinion on the news article I posted?

Does the federal court have jurisdiction to adjudicate the mixed vote ballots?  How should this legally be handled? 
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2004, 07:51:41 PM »

The two laws that would seem to be applicable are the first paragraph of 48 USC 864 and/or 28 USC 1343 (a)(3).

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It's a bit of a thin reed to build jurisdiction on, but given an activist-minded judge who thinks he can do better than the local judges, it's probably thick enough.
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Colin
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« Reply #42 on: November 28, 2004, 08:36:04 PM »

Lester Maddox, Phillip, have either of you ever been to Puerto Rico? If you have you will know that besides speaking Spanish, along with English, they are very Americanized and very culturally atuned to the United States. It would be no more different than Hawaii. Hawaii is culturally different from the rest of the United States but that doesn't mean it doesn't deserve to be a state. I think Puerto Rico should become state number 51 and stop this limbo between statehood and independence.
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A18
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« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2004, 08:41:06 PM »

ColinW, I'm not against Puerto Rican statehood. In fact, I'm more for it than against. I was just pointing out that not every territory should become a state.
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Colin
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« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2004, 08:44:02 PM »

ColinW, I'm not against Puerto Rican statehood. In fact, I'm more for it than against. I was just pointing out that not every territory should become a state.
I wouldn't want every territory to become a state either until they either decide they want to become a state or if the people of the United States feel that they should become a state. I do not think that American Samoa should become a state nor the Northern Marianas Islands but I do believe that Puerto Rico should become a state.
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English
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« Reply #45 on: December 02, 2004, 12:23:29 PM »

Good idea!
Another reliably Democrat state! Smiley
That should counteract Alabama or Mississippi at least.
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« Reply #46 on: December 02, 2004, 10:02:13 PM »

An excellent idea! I never thought the USA should be limited to the arbitrary number of fifty, and the South is as fertile an avenue for expansion as the north.
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