Map with both people and land

[Beet]

http://www.bopnews.com/archives/002306.html#2306

I thought this was quite insightful.

[A18]

Why? The point is that the vast majority of the country is GOP, not the majority of people in it.

[Beet]

Why? The point is that the vast majority of the country is GOP, not the majority of people in it.

It speaks it for itself:

"President Bush's votes were widely dispered across the country and included many sparsely populated rural counties."

"Sen. John F Kerry's votes were concentrated largely in urban centers, which traditionally are Democratic strongholds."

[A18]

Sure, but I think that's pretty well known

Still, it's a cool map

[Beet]

Sure, but I think that's pretty well known

That's true. Though its very well hidden in Dave's maps through no fault of his own, I doubt he can develop 3-D imaging by himself.

[12th Doctor]

I think most people know this.  The whole argueement against this map was more legit in 2000 when Bush did not win the popular vote.  Now that he has, it means a lot less.

[KEmperor]

That map would work better if it showed the numbers of votes for a candidate even if they lost that county.  Still, a good map, very insightful.

[J. J.]

It is unlikely that Kerry would win a large city and not win the county that it was in.

If I were shock by the news that Democrats did well in cities, especially NYC, Phila, Chicago, and LA, I would find this interesting.  It's not particularly interesting.

[KEmperor]

It is unlikely that Kerry would win a large city and not win the county that it was in.

Note that not all cities exist solely in one county.  Bush for example won Richmond County, NY.  This is one of the 5 counties of New York City.

[J. J.]

It is unlikely that Kerry would win a large city and not win the county that it was in.

Note that not all cities exist solely in one county.  Bush for example won Richmond County, NY.  This is one of the 5 counties of New York City.

Ah, correct. My question is, what difference does showing the big Kerry votes in the cities really have to do with anything?

[Beet]

It is unlikely that Kerry would win a large city and not win the county that it was in.

Note that not all cities exist solely in one county.  Bush for example won Richmond County, NY.  This is one of the 5 counties of New York City.

Ah, correct. My question is, what difference does showing the big Kerry votes in the cities really have to do with anything?

Nothing, except showing Kerry votes. Yes, he did get votes. Maybe you find that offensive.

I just thought it might be interesting, it certainly struck me when I first saw it, to have a graphical representation of reality. That is what the whole site is about right? Apparently some people are offended by the fact that Kerry got votes and any map that shows it must be bitched about.

[J. J.]

It is unlikely that Kerry would win a large city and not win the county that it was in.

Note that not all cities exist solely in one county.  Bush for example won Richmond County, NY.  This is one of the 5 counties of New York City.

Ah, correct. My question is, what difference does showing the big Kerry votes in the cities really have to do with anything?

Nothing, except showing Kerry votes. Yes, he did get votes. Maybe you find that offensive.

I just thought it might be interesting, it certainly struck me when I first saw it, to have a graphical representation of reality. That is what the whole site is about right? Apparently some people are offended by the fact that Kerry got votes and any map that shows it must be bitched about.

I don't find it "offensive" but I do question if it gives any real and new information.  I kinda figured out that Democrats tend to do well in cities.  I expected Kerry to win large totals in large cities.  I take it you realized that as well.

[Beet]

It is unlikely that Kerry would win a large city and not win the county that it was in.

Note that not all cities exist solely in one county.  Bush for example won Richmond County, NY.  This is one of the 5 counties of New York City.

Ah, correct. My question is, what difference does showing the big Kerry votes in the cities really have to do with anything?

Nothing, except showing Kerry votes. Yes, he did get votes. Maybe you find that offensive.

I just thought it might be interesting, it certainly struck me when I first saw it, to have a graphical representation of reality. That is what the whole site is about right? Apparently some people are offended by the fact that Kerry got votes and any map that shows it must be bitched about.

I don't find it "offensive" but I do question if it gives any real and new information.  I kinda figured out that Democrats tend to do well in cities.  I expected Kerry to win large totals in large cities.  I take it you realized that as well.

I also realize that Republicans tend to do well in rural areas and win a large majority of the counties. Does that mean all the maps on Dave's site are useless to me?

[A18]

It's nice to see what areas of the country supported who.

Again, the vast majority of the country is GOP territory, but only a small majority of people backed Bush.

[Beet]

True, and its the margins that matter in the end. This map shows the margins which a flat map does not do. It thus gives a much clearer idea of which counties played and important role.

[J. J.]

I also realize that Republicans tend to do well in rural areas and win a large majority of the counties. Does that mean all the maps on Dave's site are useless to me?

No, because I have a general idea of where each city is.  I kinda know that the dark blue in the southeast corner of PA is Phila.  The county maps do show those Republican urban areas; it also shows, as in the case of Phila, the Democratic suburban areas.

[Beet]

Read my previous post. If I were a political strategist or analyst, the 3-D map would be definitely more informative.

[J. J.]

Not really.   It shows where one  candidate ran up vote totals.  From the 3-D map, I cannot see the other sections of PA, for example, where Kerry won, other than Pittsburgh and Phila.  I couldn't tell that there was a city, called San Diego, in southwestern part of CA.  It doesn't provide any useful information.

[Beet]

Not really.   It shows where one  candidate ran up vote totals.  From the 3-D map, I cannot see the other sections of PA, for example, where Kerry won, other than Pittsburgh and Phila.  I couldn't tell that there was a city, called San Diego, in southwestern part of CA.  It doesn't provide any useful information.

I don't really understand what you're trying to say here. There are supposed to be 2 maps there, if your computer isn't showing it, that's unfortunate, but it's all in the same graphic.

You can see all of the counties where Kerry won and all of the counties where Bush won. It shows where one candidate ran up vote totals yes, but it also shows where the other candidate ran up vote totals. You can see where both candidates ran up totals.

You can see ALL the section of PA. The entire state is covered on both maps. You can see San Diego as well. You can see that Bush won San Diego and you can see that he won it by a much smaller margin than he won nearby Orange county. So I don't really understand what you mean when you say you cannot see this or that.

Secondly, even if you could not see those two places, I don't see what impact it has on the rest of the graphic which is there. Suppose the map maker accidentally left out San Diego and PA except for Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. You could still see every other part of the county.

And even if you could only see one candidate, you can still see the margins they gained and where they gained them from; and how their vote was distributed.

None of your objections seem to be factually accurate, at least from the way the graphic showed up on my computer. However, even if they were all accurate, your last statement would still be false.

So I guess I'm a little confused.

[J. J.]

There is no real comparative value from these maps.  I'd want one map that showed the comparisons between the two, including statewide total, if I were using this.

[Beet]

There is no real comparative value from these maps.  I'd want one map that showed the comparisons between the two, including statewide total, if I were using this.

Well, the information is the same whether it is presented on one map or two maps.

You can find statewide totals on a table or bar chart, no need to use a map.

[J. J.]

There is no real comparative value from these maps.  I'd want one map that showed the comparisons between the two, including statewide total, if I were using this.

Well, the information is the same whether it is presented on one map or two maps.

You can find statewide totals on a table or bar chart, no need to use a map.

It's impossible to make that comparison using one map.  I cannot tell where Kerry lost from this map.

[stry_cat]

There is no real comparative value from these maps.  I'd want one map that showed the comparisons between the two, including statewide total, if I were using this.

Well, the information is the same whether it is presented on one map or two maps.

You can find statewide totals on a table or bar chart, no need to use a map.

It's impossible to make that comparison using one map.  I cannot tell where Kerry lost from this map.

Kerry lost in the places that Bush won. 

[J. J.]

There is no real comparative value from these maps.  I'd want one map that showed the comparisons between the two, including statewide total, if I were using this.

Well, the information is the same whether it is presented on one map or two maps.

You can find statewide totals on a table or bar chart, no need to use a map.

It's impossible to make that comparison using one map.  I cannot tell where Kerry lost from this map.

Kerry lost in the places that Bush won. 

Not necessarily.  I can't tell from these maps the relative strengths of each in any given area.  A side by side bar would help a bit.  It tells me that Kerry won in cities, to which I reply, "Duh."

[Engineer]

A better map would have 'by how much the candidate won'.

It nice to know that Kerry won the Erie County PA, which includes Erie PA, and Allegheny County home of Pittsburgh, but how much did he win it by?  Did he win it by 1% or 10%.  This would be more helpful, than the total number of people in the county, since all the people in the county didn't vote for Kerry.