Civil Rights Act of 1964

[A18]

Even though I would have a hard time voting against this thing, I do believe it was unconstitutional

[Peter]

Why do you believe it was unconstitutional?

[A18]

Congress has only limited, not general, powers. What part of the Constitution authorizes it?

[7,052,770]

well, i don't think any part of the constitution forbids it

[Peter]

The "General Welfare" Clause IMO authorised the Civil Rights Act.

The civil rights act essentially sought to uphold rights guaranteed to the people in the federal Constitution. I certainly think its in the General Welfare that people's rights are upheld.

Whilst I don't subscribe to the massive stretch on the General Welfare clause (and other clauses) that has been achieved, I certainly believe upholding the Bill of Rights falls within the scope of Congress's legislative authority.

[Peter]

well, i don't think any part of the constitution forbids it

Thats not a reason for the Congress to be able to do something. By the Tenth amendment, all powers not delegated to the United States, nor denied to the States, are reserved to the States or the people respectively. If the Constitution doesn't say Congress can do it, then Congress can't do it. I do not think it needs to be an explicit enumeration, unlike Philip, though.

[A18]

What general welfare clause? Surely you don't mean the preamble?!

If Congress was not meant to have specifically enumerated powers, there wouldn't be specifically enumerated powers in the first place.

The Civil Rights Act doesn't really have anything to do with the Bill of Rights.

[A18]

The other general welfare clause deals only with taxation.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

[Peter]

It is an power of the Congress to promote the general welfare through taxation (see Article I Section 8 Clause 1), therefore, the Congress may pass legislation pursuant to the promotion of the general welfare. This is further reinforced by the preamble which gives the federal government a general mandate to promote the general welfare.

The Civil Rights Act, amongst other things, sought to:
Stop blacks being denied the vote (clearly upholding the 15th)
Stopped federal funding being used in discriminatory programmes (upholding the 14ths guarantee of equal protection)
And ended discrimination by entities providing public services or employment on basis of race (another enforcement of the 14th)

Whilst I concede these are not in the Bill of Rights when we talk about the first 10 amendments, I often (for what reason I'm not sure) think of all the Rights giving amendments as part of the Bill of Rights subconciously. Watch out for that, it'll probably happen again at some point.

[A18]

Wrong. It can only tax for the general welfare.

Also, it can't spend for the general welfare, which is extremely important to remember (Social Security, Medicare).

The preamble is not a legal provision of any kind. It is simply a statement of, "we're setting this up for the general welfare." It could well be, "this document is being put in place to promote the general welfare by establishing a limited federal government with only specific powers."

The Civil Rights Act, as I understand it, did a lot more than what you list.

[Peter]

Wrong. It can only tax for the general welfare.

Also, it can't spend for the general welfare, which is extremely important to remember (Social Security, Medicare).

Actually you are wrong.

Article I Section 8 Clause 1: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States".

The Congress's power is to collect Taxes and then to use these taxes to pay debts, provide for defence and for general welfare.

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Whilst you are correct that it does not provide any legal authorisation per se, it does provide the federal government with a moral mandate to do what is contained within it. The general welfare clause comes up again in the enumerated powers section, so its a moot point anyway.

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Hence me saying "amongst other things". I'm not a historical expert as to the Civil Rights Act, so I just read a quick synoposis; I'm sure it did other progressive things that you hate.

[J. J.]

The 14th Amendment gave Congress the power.

[John Dibble]

Peter, please do consider that the document was written in the language of the time. The vernacular has changed over the years since it was written. Somehow, I don't think 'welfare' would conjure the same image for them as it does for us.

[A18]

Right. In other words, Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties imposts, and excises to pay the debts. AND Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises to provide for the common defence and general welfare of the United States. Now, obviously that implies that it's going to be spent, but it has to be spent as dictated below. It does not say that all Debts are legal.

Go back and read the Federalist papers.

The "other things" in it would be the unconstitutional part.

[A18]

The 14th Amendment gave Congress the power.

The 14th amendment doesn't mention private property in any way.

[Peter]

Peter, please do consider that the document was written in the language of the time. The vernacular has changed over the years since it was written. Somehow, I don't think 'welfare' would conjure the same image for them as it does for us.

In reading the Constitution I take "general welfare" to mean "common good" as I believe this is what the Framers meant. I think that it is in the common good that we all have our rights protected by the government. As to the modern meaning of welfare: I'm not a particularly great fan of the Congress for doing what it has done, though I'm more annoyed at them for the Commerce clause.

Thanks to JJ for reminding us that in fact the 14th Amendment actually does authorise the US Congress to enforce the civil rights to the individual states, I completely forgot about that. The 15th Amendment similarly authorised the Congress to act to enforce it.