PLEASE SAY IT AIN'T SO.
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 06:37:38 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Elections (Moderators: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee, Lumine)
  PLEASE SAY IT AIN'T SO.
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6
Author Topic: PLEASE SAY IT AIN'T SO.  (Read 9266 times)
Fritz
JLD
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,668
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2010, 06:35:36 PM »

I say give him until end of day (midnight).  After that, I have no more arguments.
Logged
Bacon King
Atlas Politician
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 18,822
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.63, S: -9.49

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2010, 06:36:27 PM »

I'm back if you want to give me fifteen minutes slack.

I don't really have an excuse; I've just been busy with school and have had some real-life drama lately and for some reason basically forgot the Senate existed.

I'll be active again, I promise Smiley
Logged
Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 30,329
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2010, 06:36:35 PM »


Cheesy
Logged
The Artist Formerly Known As and Now Again Known As Ogis
agooji
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 674


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2010, 06:37:53 PM »
« Edited: October 31, 2010, 06:39:58 PM by Agooji (Ogis) »

Bacon King just posted some Senate business at 6:31 CST. I don't know what slack you'll give him, but he's technically out. I'm pretty sure some leniency is called for, but, from a judicial point of view, it's a sticky situation.

The post at 6:31


His previous Senate post:

Logged
tmthforu94
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,401
United States


Political Matrix
E: -0.26, S: -4.52

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2010, 06:41:11 PM »

Bacon King has done an admirable job in the Senate, and it would be a shame to see him go. Sad
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2010, 06:43:17 PM »

The OSPR says 21 days. We are now at 21 days 18 minutes.

I don't see any room for leniency as much as wish there was.


Logged
The Artist Formerly Known As and Now Again Known As Ogis
agooji
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 674


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #31 on: October 31, 2010, 06:45:46 PM »

The OSPR says 21 days. We are now at 21 days 18 minutes.

I don't see any room for leniency as much as wish there was.




Let's say no one cuts him any slack...do the votes he made in the last 20 minutes get annulled?
Regardless of the answer, someone needs to answer the question of whether BK is still a Senator and fast.
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #32 on: October 31, 2010, 06:46:43 PM »

Bacon King has done an admirable job in the Senate, and it would be a shame to see him go. Sad
 

Yea.


I will PM all three justices and get their opinions on the matter.

Technically, according to the OSPR BK ceased to be Senator at 7:10 PM.
Logged
Rowan
RowanBrandon
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,692


Political Matrix
E: 1.94, S: 4.70

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2010, 06:47:29 PM »

The law is the law.
Logged
Marokai Backbeat
Marokai Blue
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,477
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.42, S: -7.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #34 on: October 31, 2010, 06:48:45 PM »


As much as it pains me to agree, you're correct. Were I in a position to rule over something like this I would say BK is no longer a Senator, even if I would really really really want him to be.
Logged
Bacon King
Atlas Politician
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 18,822
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.63, S: -9.49

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #35 on: October 31, 2010, 06:49:03 PM »

Let's see here, time for a legal defense!

Senate bylaws Article 11, Section 1 says that:

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Note the bolded phrase. This doesn't say that after 21 days I'm automatically kicked out, it simply says that my seat can be declared as vacant after a period of not posting, but only after 21 days of absence. I posted before you declared a vacancy therefore your declaration is invalid.

Also, I'm certain that the precedent here is that 21 days means 21 calender days, not exactly 504 hours, so I couldn't be kicked out until after midnight tonight.

And, to make a third argument for the hell of it, I was in Georgia when I made the post on the 10th, and considering I'm in Louisiana now only 503 hours has elapsed for me personally between those posts Tongue
Logged
Fritz
JLD
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,668
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2010, 06:52:04 PM »

Don't make us drag this into court, Yankee  Tongue  Thats where this will go if you pursue this, and BK will probably win.  Meantime we won't be able to hold a special election with the court case pending.

Let it go, okay?
Logged
Marokai Backbeat
Marokai Blue
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,477
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.42, S: -7.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2010, 06:52:23 PM »

Hmm.. An interesting point about when it's actually deemed vacant. You posting before the PPT deeming the seat officially vacant would possibly invalidate that declaration.
Logged
The Artist Formerly Known As and Now Again Known As Ogis
agooji
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 674


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #38 on: October 31, 2010, 07:00:39 PM »

In my opinion, the courts should oficially examine the matter. I understand that Bacon King is a well-respected member of the community, but it isn't fair to exempt him from due process. There should be some deliberation. If he is found to have acted in a manner prompt enough to avoid the seat oficially becoming vacant, then so be it. However, I feel that, based on the comments, he is being "let off the hook" due to his stature.
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #39 on: October 31, 2010, 07:01:21 PM »

The text makes no mention of anyone "deeming" the seat vacant. The PPT's job is to notify that a vacany has already occured. The PPT doesn't create the vacancy, he merely informs the SoFE of the situation.


1. Where a Senator fails or neglects to post on any matter of Senate business for a period of not less than 21 days, the seat held by that Senator shall be deemed 'vacant'.

2. Clause 1 of this section shall not apply for periods of declared absence by Senators.

3. The PPT shall give notice to the Senate of such instances as when Clause 1 of this section applies and shall further notify the Secretary of Forum Affairs or regional Governor, as appropriate, of the vacancy

Notice the difference in terms. The PPT does not "deem" anything. The PPT gives notice to the SoFE of what has already occured.

BK ceased to be a Senator exactly 21 days after his post on the tenth. Around 7:13 tonight. The current votes and Senate activity are that of a private citizen, not a sitting Senator.

I am sorry. The law is clear and my job is to follow the OSPR guidelines. I can't brush over the potential illegitimacy of a sitting Senator's authority. I love BK to death and I would look for any way within the law possible to get him out of this, but unless their is a time issue or another missed vote. The situation is as it. I am sorry.
Logged
MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,380


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #40 on: October 31, 2010, 07:02:49 PM »

OK, we have a great confusion here.
Logged
bgwah
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,833
United States


Political Matrix
E: -1.03, S: -6.96

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #41 on: October 31, 2010, 07:03:14 PM »

In my opinion, the courts should oficially examine the matter. I understand that Bacon King is a well-respected member of the community, but it isn't fair to exempt him from due process. There should be some deliberation. If he is found to have acted in a manner prompt enough to avoid the seat oficially becoming vacant, then so be it. However, I feel that, based on the comments, he is being "let of the hook" due to his stature.

I find your strict interpretation of the rules fascinating! Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about banned members returning with new accounts? Huh
Logged
tmthforu94
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,401
United States


Political Matrix
E: -0.26, S: -4.52

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #42 on: October 31, 2010, 07:03:41 PM »

I don't see why the courts would even need to examine this, as it seems clear cut to me. Bacon King went for 3 straight weeks without posting, and by law, he is no longer a Senator, regardless of what the PPT does.

As much as I think Bacon King should stay in the Senate, we'd be setting a bad precedent by breaking the law in order to keep him in there. Sad If he wants to stay in, he can always run in the special election.
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #43 on: October 31, 2010, 07:06:02 PM »

I don't see why the courts would even need to examine this, as it seems clear cut to me. Bacon King went for 3 straight weeks without posting, and by law, he is no longer a Senator, regardless of what the PPT does.

As much as I think Bacon King should stay in the Senate, we'd be setting a bad precedent by breaking the law in order to keep him in there. Sad If he wants to stay in, he can always run in the special election.

That would I think be a fair compromise. Let the vacancy stand and then have BK run in the special. Its not like he would have a problem winning the special as a JCPer.
Logged
MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,380


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #44 on: October 31, 2010, 07:06:41 PM »

I don't see why the courts would even need to examine this, as it seems clear cut to me. Bacon King went for 3 straight weeks without posting, and by law, he is no longer a Senator, regardless of what the PPT does.

As much as I think Bacon King should stay in the Senate, we'd be setting a bad precedent by breaking the law in order to keep him in there. Sad If he wants to stay in, he can always run in the special election.

That would I think be a fair compromise. Let the vacancy stand and then have BK run in the special. Its not like he would have a problem winning the special as a JCPer.

Sounds reasonable.
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #45 on: October 31, 2010, 07:08:32 PM »

In my opinion, the courts should oficially examine the matter. I understand that Bacon King is a well-respected member of the community, but it isn't fair to exempt him from due process. There should be some deliberation. If he is found to have acted in a manner prompt enough to avoid the seat oficially becoming vacant, then so be it. However, I feel that, based on the comments, he is being "let of the hook" due to his stature.

I find your strict interpretation of the rules fascinating! Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about banned members returning with new accounts? Huh

I could see letting rules slide in the debate or allowing an amendment be brought to a vote that wasn't offered or something like that. But this calls into question the legitimacy of BK's Senate votes. And technically any Atlasian could challenge him court because he represents the entire nation as an At-Large Senator.
Logged
Marokai Backbeat
Marokai Blue
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,477
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.42, S: -7.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #46 on: October 31, 2010, 07:09:25 PM »

I don't see why the courts would even need to examine this, as it seems clear cut to me. Bacon King went for 3 straight weeks without posting, and by law, he is no longer a Senator, regardless of what the PPT does.

As much as I think Bacon King should stay in the Senate, we'd be setting a bad precedent by breaking the law in order to keep him in there. Sad If he wants to stay in, he can always run in the special election.

That would I think be a fair compromise. Let the vacancy stand and then have BK run in the special. Its not like he would have a problem winning the special as a JCPer.

Sounds reasonable.

It's not reasonable at all and I would caution against falling for that trap. Coming off the heels of three weeks of inactivity wouldn't make him an attractive choice for people to vote for. The right would put up a moderate and/or likable figure and then demolish him with this as an issue.
Logged
The Artist Formerly Known As and Now Again Known As Ogis
agooji
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 674


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #47 on: October 31, 2010, 07:10:50 PM »

In my opinion, the courts should oficially examine the matter. I understand that Bacon King is a well-respected member of the community, but it isn't fair to exempt him from due process. There should be some deliberation. If he is found to have acted in a manner prompt enough to avoid the seat oficially becoming vacant, then so be it. However, I feel that, based on the comments, he is being "let of the hook" due to his stature.

I find your strict interpretation of the rules fascinating! Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about banned members returning with new accounts? Huh

I'm saying it should go to the courts. If you want to question my eligibility, go to the courts. Adhere to the due process of law. Don't patronize me. You should concentrate on your position rather than harassing citizens.

In my opinion, the courts should oficially examine the matter. I understand that Bacon King is a well-respected member of the community, but it isn't fair to exempt him from due process. There should be some deliberation. If he is found to have acted in a manner prompt enough to avoid the seat oficially becoming vacant, then so be it. However, I feel that, based on the comments, he is being "let of the hook" due to his stature.

I find your strict interpretation of the rules fascinating! Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about banned members returning with new accounts? Huh

I could see letting rules slide in the debate or allowing an amendment be brought to a vote that wasn't offered or something like that. But this calls into question the legitimacy of BK's Senate votes. And technically any Atlasian could challenge him court because he represents the entire nation as an At-Large Senator.

Exactly. Bgwah, this is not just MY position. I am talking about something that affects all of Atlasia.
Logged
Fritz
JLD
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,668
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #48 on: October 31, 2010, 07:11:02 PM »

I find the argument that 21 days means calendar days, and not 21 days to the minute, to be both compelling and reasonable.

BK, take this to court.
Logged
tpfkaw
wormyguy
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,118
United States


Political Matrix
E: -0.58, S: 1.65

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #49 on: October 31, 2010, 07:11:28 PM »

I don't see why the courts would even need to examine this, as it seems clear cut to me. Bacon King went for 3 straight weeks without posting, and by law, he is no longer a Senator, regardless of what the PPT does.

As much as I think Bacon King should stay in the Senate, we'd be setting a bad precedent by breaking the law in order to keep him in there. Sad If he wants to stay in, he can always run in the special election.

That would I think be a fair compromise. Let the vacancy stand and then have BK run in the special. Its not like he would have a problem winning the special as a JCPer.

Sounds reasonable.

It's not reasonable at all and I would caution against falling for that trap. Coming off the heels of three weeks of inactivity wouldn't make him an attractive choice for people to vote for. The right would put up a moderate and/or likable figure and then demolish him with this as an issue.

That's funny, Marokai.  I was under the impression that you were a really big fan of democracy.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.056 seconds with 12 queries.