PLEASE SAY IT AIN'T SO.

[tmthforu94]

I don't see why the courts would even need to examine this, as it seems clear cut to me. Bacon King went for 3 straight weeks without posting, and by law, he is no longer a Senator, regardless of what the PPT does.

As much as I think Bacon King should stay in the Senate, we'd be setting a bad precedent by breaking the law in order to keep him in there. If he wants to stay in, he can always run in the special election.

That would I think be a fair compromise. Let the vacancy stand and then have BK run in the special. Its not like he would have a problem winning the special as a JCPer.

Sounds reasonable.

It's not reasonable at all and I would caution against falling for that trap. Coming off the heels of three weeks of inactivity wouldn't make him an attractive choice for people to vote for. The right would put up a moderate and/or likable figure and then demolish him with this as an issue.

It's the best option right now. If you think he'd get creamed, then encourage him not to run in favor of someone else.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I find the argument that 21 days means calendar days, and not 21 days to the minute, to be both compelling and reasonable.

BK, take this to court.

It's a reasonable question. There are other cases on statute (then again, this is a Senate rule, not federal law) where, if something is actually to be specified by time, it's listed in hours. (Elections are done this way, for example.) The lack of specificity on the time it takes for someone to be deemed inactive could easily be interpreted either way.

[The Artist Formerly Known As and Now Again Known As Ogis]

I don't see why the courts would even need to examine this, as it seems clear cut to me. Bacon King went for 3 straight weeks without posting, and by law, he is no longer a Senator, regardless of what the PPT does.

As much as I think Bacon King should stay in the Senate, we'd be setting a bad precedent by breaking the law in order to keep him in there. If he wants to stay in, he can always run in the special election.

That would I think be a fair compromise. Let the vacancy stand and then have BK run in the special. Its not like he would have a problem winning the special as a JCPer.

Sounds reasonable.

It's not reasonable at all and I would caution against falling for that trap. Coming off the heels of three weeks of inactivity wouldn't make him an attractive choice for people to vote for. The right would put up a moderate and/or likable figure and then demolish him with this as an issue.

That's funny, Marokai.  I was under the impression that you were a really big fan of democracy.

I don't mean to be argumentative, but I don't understand. What did he say that was undemocratic? I thought he was just earnestly questioning the viability of a candidate who had just neglected his position for an extended period of time.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I don't see why the courts would even need to examine this, as it seems clear cut to me. Bacon King went for 3 straight weeks without posting, and by law, he is no longer a Senator, regardless of what the PPT does.

As much as I think Bacon King should stay in the Senate, we'd be setting a bad precedent by breaking the law in order to keep him in there. If he wants to stay in, he can always run in the special election.

That would I think be a fair compromise. Let the vacancy stand and then have BK run in the special. Its not like he would have a problem winning the special as a JCPer.

Sounds reasonable.

It's not reasonable at all and I would caution against falling for that trap. Coming off the heels of three weeks of inactivity wouldn't make him an attractive choice for people to vote for. The right would put up a moderate and/or likable figure and then demolish him with this as an issue.

That's funny, Marokai.  I was under the impression that you were a really big fan of democracy.

How is what you said at all relevant to what I just said?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

This is getting out of control here.


Every vote BK takes can be called into question untill the Supreme Court rules one way or the other or the vacancy isn't challenged.

I will say again. My comments and post in the SoFE thread are irrelevant up to the point of the vacancy and are only relevent in informing the SoFE so that a special election can occur to fill the vacancy. There is no mention of the PPT or the SoFE/Governor in the first clause of that section. The first mention of both is in clause three and it deals with rectifying the vacancy, ie special election/appointment.

[Bacon King]

Ah, this fun controversy is perfect to get me interested in Atlasia again!

I posted last on October 10th. Today is the 31st. I had not posted in the Senate for 20 days; it would have become the 21st day after midnight.

Note Atlasian law's precedent regarding issues of time. If it was to be 21 days as in, EXACTLY 504 hours, it would have said 504 hours.

In the OSPR for example, some sections say something like "72 hours" rather than "three days" while other sections say something like "three days" instead of "72 hours." If these two terms were identical there would be no need for separate terminology.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Ogis, this isnt' a crusade or some mission. This is a delicate situation that requires professionalism and maturity to be fixed. I would ask to avoid any type of personal attacks or stuff in this matter.

[Bacon King]

BK, take this to court.

I believe I shall, if NCYankee does not rescind his announcement of vacancy.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Ogis, this isnt' a crusade or some mission. This is a delicate situation that requires professionalism and maturity to be fixed. I would ask to avoid any type of personal attacks or stuff in this matter.

That's funny, Yankee. I was under the impression that you were a really big fan of shellfish.

[tpfkaw]

day /deɪ/ [dey]  –noun
1. the interval of light between two successive nights; the time between sunrise and sunset: Since there was no artificial illumination, all activities had to be carried on during the day.
2. the light of day; daylight: The owl sleeps by day and feeds by night.
3. Astronomy. a. Also called mean solar day. a division of time equal to 24 hours and representing the average length of the period during which the earth makes one rotation on its axis.
b. Also called solar day. a division of time equal to the time elapsed between two consecutive returns of the same terrestrial meridian to the sun.
c. Also called civil day. a division of time equal to 24 hours but reckoned from one midnight to the next. Compare lunar day, sidereal day.
4. an analogous division of time for a planet other than the earth: the Martian day.
5. the portion of a day allotted to work: an eight-hour day.
6. day on which something occurs: the day we met.
7. (often initial capital letter) a day assigned to a particular purpose or observance: New Year's Day.
8. a time considered as propitious or opportune: His day will come.
9. a day of contest or the contest itself: to win the day.
10. Often, days. a particular time or period: the present day; in days of old.
11. Usually, days. period of life or activity: His days are numbered.
12. period of existence, power, or influence: in the day of the dinosaurs.
13. light

—Idioms

14. call it a day, to stop one's activity for the day or for the present; quit temporarily: After rewriting the paper, she decided to call it a day.
15. day in, day out, every day without fail; regularly: They endured the noise and dirt of the city day in, day out. Also, day in and day out.

[bgwah]

In my opinion, the courts should oficially examine the matter. I understand that Bacon King is a well-respected member of the community, but it isn't fair to exempt him from due process. There should be some deliberation. If he is found to have acted in a manner prompt enough to avoid the seat oficially becoming vacant, then so be it. However, I feel that, based on the comments, he is being "let of the hook" due to his stature.

I find your strict interpretation of the rules fascinating! Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about banned members returning with new accounts?

I'm saying it should go to the courts. If you want to question my eligibility, go to the courts. Adhere to the due process of law. Don't patronize me. You should concentrate on your position rather than harassing citizens.

In my opinion, the courts should oficially examine the matter. I understand that Bacon King is a well-respected member of the community, but it isn't fair to exempt him from due process. There should be some deliberation. If he is found to have acted in a manner prompt enough to avoid the seat oficially becoming vacant, then so be it. However, I feel that, based on the comments, he is being "let of the hook" due to his stature.

I find your strict interpretation of the rules fascinating! Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about banned members returning with new accounts?

I could see letting rules slide in the debate or allowing an amendment be brought to a vote that wasn't offered or something like that. But this calls into question the legitimacy of BK's Senate votes. And technically any Atlasian could challenge him court because he represents the entire nation as an At-Large Senator.

Exactly. Bgwah, this is not just MY position. I am talking about something that affects all of Atlasia.

But why do you care about the rules all of the sudden? You stick your middle finger up to Dave Leip and the rules of this forum every time you post.

[Bacon King]

But just below that, wormguy: "c. Also called civil day. a division of time equal to 24 hours but reckoned from one midnight to the next. Compare lunar day, sidereal day."

[tpfkaw]

But just below that, wormguy: "c. Also called civil day. a division of time equal to 24 hours but reckoned from one midnight to the next. Compare lunar day, sidereal day."

Active clause.

[Bacon King]

But just below that, wormguy: "c. Also called civil day. a division of time equal to 24 hours but reckoned from one midnight to the next. Compare lunar day, sidereal day."

Active clause.

No, I believe, "reckoned from one midnight to the next" is the relevant clause here. Only twenty midnights have passed while I didn't post in the Senate, therefore it has been twenty days.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Ah, this fun controversy is perfect to get me interested in Atlasia again!

I posted last on October 10th. Today is the 31st. I had not posted in the Senate for 20 days; it would have become the 21st day after midnight.

Note Atlasian law's precedent regarding issues of time. If it was to be 21 days as in, EXACTLY 504 hours, it would have said 504 hours.

In the OSPR for example, some sections say something like "72 hours" rather than "three days" while other sections say something like "three days" instead of "72 hours." If these two terms were identical there would be no need for separate terminology.

On that note, I would be happy to let this slide. However, I feel trapped here. And because you guys have thrown out the threat of a court challenge, I can't consult the justices now.

Ogis, this isnt' a crusade or some mission. This is a delicate situation that requires professionalism and maturity to be fixed. I would ask to avoid any type of personal attacks or stuff in this matter.

That's funny, Yankee. I was under the impression that you were a really big fan of shellfish.

What? 

[Marokai Backbeat]

I don't see that definition as particularly binding, Wormy. As Fritz and BK both pointed out, when we legislate specific times instead of calender days it's usually done in terms of hours. So long as those differences exist on the books, it's perfectly out for interpretation on whether or not something is calender days vs. specific time.

[tpfkaw]

Well, I don't think "hour" really means "hour."  I think you need to say "3600 seconds."

[Marokai Backbeat]

Well, I don't think "hour" really means "hour."  I think you need to say "3600 seconds."

False equivalency. "Day" can often mean "24 hours" specifically or "calender day" as the way its used has evolved over the generations. "Hour" has no such dueling definitions because it is always used specifically.

[Bacon King]

Consider, Yankee, the arguments I have made. My seat is not vacant. You need to do nothing. If anybody thinks the legal process has for some reason been violated here, then they can sue me and then it'll go to court. Simplest way out here for everyone involved. If I take this to court personally, that would most likely put me existing in a gray area of being-a-Senator-yet-not, which would just make everything confusing.

[tpfkaw]

"The hour of our triumph"

"An hour's work"

"The hour of reckoning"

"Hours and hours"

[Marokai Backbeat]

"The hour of our triumph."

"An hour's work"

"The hour of reckoning"

"Hours and hours"

Irrelevant. Those are specific phrases used in entirely different contexts. It doesn't compare.

[Bacon King]

"The hour of our triumph."

"An hour's work"

"The hour of reckoning"

"Hours and hours"

What?

Those are figures of speech and not anything that would ever appear in a legal text.

[tpfkaw]

"The hour of our triumph."

"An hour's work"

"The hour of reckoning"

"Hours and hours"

What?

Those are figures of speech and not anything that would ever appear in a legal text.

Exactly my point.

[Marokai Backbeat]

"The hour of our triumph."

"An hour's work"

"The hour of reckoning"

"Hours and hours"

What?

Those are figures of speech and not anything that would ever appear in a legal text.

Exactly my point.

If the point was that you don't have a clue what the hell you're talking about and you're sticking around just to be a thorn in everyone's side for no reason, then point made.

[tmthforu94]

Personally, I consider a day 24 hours. It's the most technical and accurate way of operating. Going by hours, Bacon King was inactive for 3 weeks straight, which I think would make a very compelling case in the court. Even Marokai stated earlier that Bacon King is no longer a Senator.