US House Redistricting: Maryland

[Brittain33]

The idea that Dems are to blame for Republicans going for maximal advantage, or that Republicans interested in gerrymandering would hold off if they could work out an agreement with Dems in another state, is very hard to take seriously.

The IL Dem map didn't invent gerrymandering in this cycle, much less in this decade. State parties that want to play hardball and have the discipline and motivation to do so, are doing so. That's all there is to it.

[BigSkyBob]

The idea that Dems are to blame for Republicans going for maximal advantage, or that Republicans interested in gerrymandering would hold off if they could work out an agreement with Dems in another state, is very hard to take seriously.

As is the claim that the Republicans are to blame for the Democrats gerrymandering Illinois.

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[Brittain33]

As is the claim that the Republicans are to blame for the Democrats gerrymandering Illinois.

Can you link to anyone making that claim? If they did, that's dumb. If they just said, "don't complain about Illinois, Republicans did it elsewhere," I hope the difference is clear...

[Torie]

The idea that Dems are to blame for Republicans going for maximal advantage, or that Republicans interested in gerrymandering would hold off if they could work out an agreement with Dems in another state, is very hard to take seriously.

The IL Dem map didn't invent gerrymandering in this cycle, much less in this decade. State parties that want to play hardball and have the discipline and motivation to do so, are doing so. That's all there is to it.

Yes, I know.  But, well, I made my little point. I feel better now.  

So we just will go with creating one disgusting map after another after another after another.

[dpmapper]

Not that this isn't a Democratic gerrymander (it is), but we should remember that it could've been a worse gerrymander.  I have seen several solid maps on sites such as DKE that would eliminate both Bartlett and Harris.  In all honesty, I don't have much sympathy for Illinois Republicans or North Carolina Democrats given the previous maps in those states.  Ohio is easily the worst map so far, imo (although Michigan is also pretty bad).  Regarding Tennessee/Cooper, I agree with those who have said that this could just as easily be viewed as payback for Barrow.

The previous IL map was a bipartisan plan, so it's not completely equivalent to the NC situation.  Just sayin'. 

[Torie]

Not that this isn't a Democratic gerrymander (it is), but we should remember that it could've been a worse gerrymander.  I have seen several solid maps on sites such as DKE that would eliminate both Bartlett and Harris.  In all honesty, I don't have much sympathy for Illinois Republicans or North Carolina Democrats given the previous maps in those states.  Ohio is easily the worst map so far, imo (although Michigan is also pretty bad).  Regarding Tennessee/Cooper, I agree with those who have said that this could just as easily be viewed as payback for Barrow.

The previous IL map was a bipartisan plan, so it's not completely equivalent to the NC situation.  Just sayin'.  

Correct. Incumbent protection maps are also disgusting in general (e.g., take a look at the existing NY excrescence drawn in 2002). Btw, would you happen to know how to post images on Red Racing Horses?  I thought I would put up some of my maps there.

[Vazdul (Formerly Chairman of the Communist Party of Ontario)]

The idea that Dems are to blame for Republicans going for maximal advantage, or that Republicans interested in gerrymandering would hold off if they could work out an agreement with Dems in another state, is very hard to take seriously.

The IL Dem map didn't invent gerrymandering in this cycle, much less in this decade. State parties that want to play hardball and have the discipline and motivation to do so, are doing so. That's all there is to it.

Yes, I know.  But, well, I made my little point. I feel better now.  

So we just will go with creating one disgusting map after another after another after another.

Since JohnnyLongtorso proved that an 8-0 map is possible, I would counter with this offer: If the Republicans in Tennessee leave Cooper alone, the Maryland Democrats will settle for only getting rid of Bartlett instead of both Bartlett and Harris. The Tennessee Republicans can't touch the Memphis district.

[Torie]

The idea that Dems are to blame for Republicans going for maximal advantage, or that Republicans interested in gerrymandering would hold off if they could work out an agreement with Dems in another state, is very hard to take seriously.

The IL Dem map didn't invent gerrymandering in this cycle, much less in this decade. State parties that want to play hardball and have the discipline and motivation to do so, are doing so. That's all there is to it.

Yes, I know.  But, well, I made my little point. I feel better now.  

So we just will go with creating one disgusting map after another after another after another.

Since JohnnyLongtorso proved that an 8-0 map is possible, I would counter with this offer: If the Republicans in Tennessee leave Cooper alone, the Maryland Democrats will settle for only getting rid of Bartlett instead of both Bartlett and Harris. The Tennessee Republicans can't touch the Memphis district.

I think the MD Dems were less concerned about some measure of self restraint, and more concerned that an 8-0 map was either at risk of devolving into a dummymander, and/or too inconvenient for the existing incumbents to live with.  Just a guess on my part I know. So ... no deal.

[timothyinMD]

Maybe the Pubs should send a telegram to the MD Dems, that if they kill off a Pubbie in MD, Cooper in TN is finished. An semi-erose go for the kill map will be passed in TN. Just a thought. And I just drew one (not yet posted; my prior map was more "gentlemanly." I'm serious. I feel a bit bad. Cooper is a throughly decent man. I feel unclean. But the MD Dems are being a bit piggish. It's time to retaliate.

After the Ohio monstrosity, I'd accept nothing less than the following as a Maryland Democrat.

Why fight over getting rid of Bartlett or Harris when you can do both? A lot of thin connections here, but the current map has those as well.



MD-01 - 49.6 McCain, 48.7 Obama. Good fit for Kratovil.
MD-02 - 57.2 Obama, 40.8 McCain.
MD-03 - 58.8 Obama, 39.0 McCain.
MD-04 - 80.8 Obama, 18.3 McCain, 54.2% black VAP.
MD-05 - 65.3 Obama, 33.5 McCain.
MD-06 - 54.8 Obama, 43.5 McCain. Maybe not safe, but Republicans are so weak in Montgomery County that it would be pretty close to safe.
MD-07 - 65.5 Obama, 32.8 McCain, 50.8% black VAP. The trick is to put the uber-Republican northern suburbs of Baltimore here, I think.
MD-08 - 63.1 Obama, 35.3 McCain.

The difference is that we earned our 13-5 majority in Ohio at the ballot box, and their new map eliminates one Democrat and one Republican.  Sounds fair to me.

[Vazdul (Formerly Chairman of the Communist Party of Ontario)]

The idea that Dems are to blame for Republicans going for maximal advantage, or that Republicans interested in gerrymandering would hold off if they could work out an agreement with Dems in another state, is very hard to take seriously.

The IL Dem map didn't invent gerrymandering in this cycle, much less in this decade. State parties that want to play hardball and have the discipline and motivation to do so, are doing so. That's all there is to it.

Yes, I know.  But, well, I made my little point. I feel better now.  

So we just will go with creating one disgusting map after another after another after another.

Since JohnnyLongtorso proved that an 8-0 map is possible, I would counter with this offer: If the Republicans in Tennessee leave Cooper alone, the Maryland Democrats will settle for only getting rid of Bartlett instead of both Bartlett and Harris. The Tennessee Republicans can't touch the Memphis district.

I think the MD Dems were less concerned about some measure of self restraint, and more concerned that an 8-0 map was either at risk of devolving into a dummymander, and/or too inconvenient for the existing incumbents to live with.  Just a guess on my part I know. So ... no deal.

After what went down in Ohio, North Carolina, and Michigan, I see no reason why Maryland Democrats shouldn't take that chance. Dems have very little to lose at this point.

[Brittain33]

The difference is that we earned our 13-5 majority in Ohio at the ballot box, and their new map eliminates one Democrat and one Republican.  Sounds fair to me.

Can you look at the map and say "that makes sense"?

[Vazdul (Formerly Chairman of the Communist Party of Ontario)]

Maybe the Pubs should send a telegram to the MD Dems, that if they kill off a Pubbie in MD, Cooper in TN is finished. An semi-erose go for the kill map will be passed in TN. Just a thought. And I just drew one (not yet posted; my prior map was more "gentlemanly." I'm serious. I feel a bit bad. Cooper is a throughly decent man. I feel unclean. But the MD Dems are being a bit piggish. It's time to retaliate.

After the Ohio monstrosity, I'd accept nothing less than the following as a Maryland Democrat.

Why fight over getting rid of Bartlett or Harris when you can do both? A lot of thin connections here, but the current map has those as well.



MD-01 - 49.6 McCain, 48.7 Obama. Good fit for Kratovil.
MD-02 - 57.2 Obama, 40.8 McCain.
MD-03 - 58.8 Obama, 39.0 McCain.
MD-04 - 80.8 Obama, 18.3 McCain, 54.2% black VAP.
MD-05 - 65.3 Obama, 33.5 McCain.
MD-06 - 54.8 Obama, 43.5 McCain. Maybe not safe, but Republicans are so weak in Montgomery County that it would be pretty close to safe.
MD-07 - 65.5 Obama, 32.8 McCain, 50.8% black VAP. The trick is to put the uber-Republican northern suburbs of Baltimore here, I think.
MD-08 - 63.1 Obama, 35.3 McCain.

The difference is that we earned our 13-5 majority in Ohio at the ballot box, and their new map eliminates one Democrat and one Republican.  Sounds fair to me.

You sure as hell didn't earn your likely-soon-to-be 10-3 majority in North Carolina at the ballot box. And don't give me any crap about how the current NC map is gerrymandered- so is the current Ohio map.

And that bit about Ohio's new map eliminating one Democrat and one Republican is bullsh*t. You know full well that the only reason a Republican was eliminated was to completely do away with any chance whatsoever of a Democrat taking the suburban Columbus seats.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Maybe the Pubs should send a telegram to the MD Dems, that if they kill off a Pubbie in MD, Cooper in TN is finished. An semi-erose go for the kill map will be passed in TN. Just a thought. And I just drew one (not yet posted; my prior map was more "gentlemanly." I'm serious. I feel a bit bad. Cooper is a throughly decent man. I feel unclean. But the MD Dems are being a bit piggish. It's time to retaliate.

After the Ohio monstrosity, I'd accept nothing less than the following as a Maryland Democrat.

Why fight over getting rid of Bartlett or Harris when you can do both? A lot of thin connections here, but the current map has those as well.



MD-01 - 49.6 McCain, 48.7 Obama. Good fit for Kratovil.
MD-02 - 57.2 Obama, 40.8 McCain.
MD-03 - 58.8 Obama, 39.0 McCain.
MD-04 - 80.8 Obama, 18.3 McCain, 54.2% black VAP.
MD-05 - 65.3 Obama, 33.5 McCain.
MD-06 - 54.8 Obama, 43.5 McCain. Maybe not safe, but Republicans are so weak in Montgomery County that it would be pretty close to safe.
MD-07 - 65.5 Obama, 32.8 McCain, 50.8% black VAP. The trick is to put the uber-Republican northern suburbs of Baltimore here, I think.
MD-08 - 63.1 Obama, 35.3 McCain.

The difference is that we earned our 13-5 majority in Ohio at the ballot box, and their new map eliminates one Democrat and one Republican.  Sounds fair to me.

Actually, the previous map was already an ugly Republican gerrymander (though not as bad as the new map), but thanks for playing.

[BigSkyBob]

As is the claim that the Republicans are to blame for the Democrats gerrymandering Illinois.

Can you link to anyone making that claim? If they did, that's dumb.

I'm sure if you look up "Happy Redistrictmas!" on google you will find a lot of "dumb" comments to that effect.

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So, you are saying, "Don't complain about Illinois, Republicans did it elsewhere, and don't complain about North Carolina, Democrats did it elsewhere?"

Funny, I only read the first part.

[DrScholl]

I would also offer that Maryland Democrats earned their 7-1 map at the ballot box as well, that kind of argument can cut both ways. Maryland Democrats could have conceivably tried to go 8-0, but they didn't, which is a lot more generous than North Carolina or Ohio Republicans.

[Torie]

Guys, please, please. All of these maps are disgusting.  They cannot be defended. Heck, some of mine are disgusting; it depends the purpose for which I am drawing the map, and what I think the political culture of a state is. Let's not pretend otherwise. It's all about power, unrestrained power. It's the functional equivalent of total political war now. There is no civility left. There once was.  Yes there was. I recall, barely, the days when John McCormick used to protect the GOP seat of Congressman Martin.

[Platypus]

This one wasn't disgusting: (hint hint)

Non-Partisan:



CD1 (Blue): -46; 78.0% White; 57.0% McCain
CD2 (Orange): +56; 64.7% White; 54.2% Obama
CD3 (Lime): -62; 55.8% Black; 79.4% Obama
CD4 (Red) +9; 61.3% Black; 88.8% Obama
CD5 (Yellow): +58; 59.9% White; 59.0% Obama
CD6 (Green): +21; 79.3% White; 53.0% McCain
CD7 (Black): -42; 55.1% White; 60.2% Obama
CD8 (Violet): -4; 49.9% White plurality; 73.1% Obama

Summary:

2 strong majority (55%+) Black districts
1 majority-minority district, white plurality
5 strong majority (55%+) White districts
4 safe democrat (60%+ Obama) districts
1 strong democrat (55%+ Obama) district
1 lean democrat (50%+ Obama) district
1 lean republican (50%+ McCain) district
1 strong republican (55%+ McCain) district

Max. deviation 68/100, average deviation 38.500/50.000, all districts truly contiguous, 4 counties split.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Guys, please, please. All of these maps are disgusting.  They cannot be defended. Heck, some of mine are disgusting; it depends the purpose for which I am drawing the map, and what I think the political culture of a state is. Let's not pretend otherwise. It's all about power, unrestrained power. It's the functional equivalent of total political war now. There is no civility left. There once was.  Yes there was. I recall, barely, the days when John McCormick used to protect the GOP seat of Congressman Martin.

Quite. No political party ever 'earns' the right to effectively rig elections and no politician ever 'earns' the right to handpick their electors. That it happens is just regrettable political reality and not much else.

[muon2]

Guys, please, please. All of these maps are disgusting.  They cannot be defended. Heck, some of mine are disgusting; it depends the purpose for which I am drawing the map, and what I think the political culture of a state is. Let's not pretend otherwise. It's all about power, unrestrained power. It's the functional equivalent of total political war now. There is no civility left. There once was.  Yes there was. I recall, barely, the days when John McCormick used to protect the GOP seat of Congressman Martin.

Quite. No political party ever 'earns' the right to effectively rig elections and no politician ever 'earns' the right to handpick their electors. That it happens is just regrettable political reality and not much else.

It's made worse as a party will choose whether to be on the side of fair maps or not based solely on their control of the process in the state. For example, in OH the Dems are supporting a competition-driven plan that is compact, generates relatively few county splits and has an 8-8 partisan split that matches the statewide average vote. If the Dems applied that same logic to MD then they should have a 5 - 3 split with 2 black-majority districts, and perhaps a couple of the districts would be competitive. They would have compact districts that split few counties, the result might be the map below. Even though both OH and MD Dems are in contact with the national party, that won't result in any consistency in approach, for exactly the reasons noted above.

[timothyinMD]

This one wasn't disgusting: (hint hint)

Non-Partisan:



CD1 (Blue): -46; 78.0% White; 57.0% McCain
CD2 (Orange): +56; 64.7% White; 54.2% Obama
CD3 (Lime): -62; 55.8% Black; 79.4% Obama
CD4 (Red) +9; 61.3% Black; 88.8% Obama
CD5 (Yellow): +58; 59.9% White; 59.0% Obama
CD6 (Green): +21; 79.3% White; 53.0% McCain
CD7 (Black): -42; 55.1% White; 60.2% Obama
CD8 (Violet): -4; 49.9% White plurality; 73.1% Obama

Summary:

2 strong majority (55%+) Black districts
1 majority-minority district, white plurality
5 strong majority (55%+) White districts
4 safe democrat (60%+ Obama) districts
1 strong democrat (55%+ Obama) district
1 lean democrat (50%+ Obama) district
1 lean republican (50%+ McCain) district
1 strong republican (55%+ McCain) district

Max. deviation 68/100, average deviation 38.500/50.000, all districts truly contiguous, 4 counties split.

Northeastern A.A. County shouldn't be attached to Baltimore City

[Sbane]

Does anyone feel like they need a shower?

This whole redistricting process is unclean and f'ed up. Not sure whether MD and TN are where the deals need to be made. What sort of map will be coming out of Ohio? Pennsylvania? Maybe the Dems feel they need to retaliate for that? Let's just have a constitutional convention or something, take redistricting out of the hands of the pigs, and be done with it.

Wait, has the Ohio map been released? Did they create a Columbus district? If not, then the MD dems should go for the juggular and severe it with one bite. 8-0 map is in order, I think.

[Sbane]

Ok just saw the Ohio map, pretty disgusting as expected but still has 4 dem districts it seems. So 7-1 in MD I guess.

Oh btw, I hope they draw a dummymander in TN, I really do. And please try to eliminate Medicare, pretty please? Then the fun can begin.

[Torie]

Does anyone feel like they need a shower?

This whole redistricting process is unclean and f'ed up. Not sure whether MD and TN are where the deals need to be made. What sort of map will be coming out of Ohio? Pennsylvania? Maybe the Dems feel they need to retaliate for that? Let's just have a constitutional convention or something, take redistricting out of the hands of the pigs, and be done with it.

Wait, has the Ohio map been released? Did they create a Columbus district? If not, then the MD dems should go for the juggular and severe it with one bite. 8-0 map is in order, I think.

The GOP ceded Columbus. Their map is a still massive cf however. All the Pubbies here agree on that one.    Among other things, they chopped Toledo in half.  But there is just so much more. My map looks like a veritable non partisan plan in comparison. Check out the Ohio thread, and you shall see.

[Torie]

Ok just saw the Ohio map, pretty disgusting as expected but still has 4 dem districts it seems. So 7-1 in MD I guess.

Oh btw, I hope they draw a dummymander in TN, I really do. And please try to eliminate Medicare, pretty please? Then the fun can begin.

I should send them my TN gerry. It ain't a dummymander.

[Sbane]

Does anyone feel like they need a shower?

This whole redistricting process is unclean and f'ed up. Not sure whether MD and TN are where the deals need to be made. What sort of map will be coming out of Ohio? Pennsylvania? Maybe the Dems feel they need to retaliate for that? Let's just have a constitutional convention or something, take redistricting out of the hands of the pigs, and be done with it.

Wait, has the Ohio map been released? Did they create a Columbus district? If not, then the MD dems should go for the juggular and severe it with one bite. 8-0 map is in order, I think.

The GOP ceded Columbus. Their map is a still massive cf however. All the Pubbies here agree on that one.    Among other things, they chopped Toledo in half.  But there is just so much more. My map looks like a veritable non partisan plan in comparison. Check out the Ohio thread, and you shall see.

Yeah, I realize the map is just awful, on many different levels. If you make it such a mess, at least eliminate 2 Dems.

As for TN, your map is pretty good, and something like that should be expected thus MD going for the 7-1 map.