MA: Regional Budget (In the works)

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

so... how do we keep this process moving forward?

and can we look at doing some tax reform?

[California8429]

To clear this all up for all the tax credits I wrote (no change) for all of them because I was thinking it would be based off of the first budget, therefore it would be impossible for a change of added or subracted dollars. I only could guess on the tax credits necessary for positive economic growth based off of the national tax credits but for 1/4 of the nation. Is this making sense?

Anyways I would just like to clear that up. Ask me if this still doesn't make sense.

Thanks

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Where exactly are we at?

Has the GM finalized a full analysis yet?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

To clear this all up for all the tax credits I wrote (no change) for all of them because I was thinking it would be based off of the first budget, therefore it would be impossible for a change of added or subracted dollars. I only could guess on the tax credits necessary for positive economic growth based off of the national tax credits but for 1/4 of the nation. Is this making sense?

Anyways I would just like to clear that up. Ask me if this still doesn't make sense.

Thanks

I was assuming that the list and figures of tax credits/deductions were based off the total of state level tax expenditures. But now, if I understand you correctly, you are saying they were based on a list of those for the nation, divided by 4? 
I understand then why they added up to be so much in comparison to the budget, since as far as I know, states do not generally have many tax deductions, especially compared to the federal level which has many.
In that case there may not be much room to raise the region's revenue through eliminating tax credits and deductions, but I may look into it a bit more to see which states have them.
   

[California8429]

Yes, in reality the numbers I proposed were complete guestimations to start off the debate. Though if we left them at current levels, those tax credits and deductions would be a lot more than RL, which would in turn boost our economy.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Yes, in reality the numbers I proposed were complete guestimations to start off the debate. Though if we left them at current levels, those tax credits and deductions would be a lot more than RL, which would in turn boost our economy.

The problem is I'm not sure we have the funds to allow those tax credits - because your tax credits have to be much lower than what your tax revenue would be without them - otherwise you wont have any money to fund the government.  My understanding is that Badger made his revenue calculation based on RL state tax deduction policy. So I believe we should be starting from RL in terms of what deductions to get rid of, not to add to, given our potential deficit. Some credits may be helpful to economic growth, but most are not worth higher deficits or higher overall tax rates.

[California8429]

Yes, in reality the numbers I proposed were complete guestimations to start off the debate. Though if we left them at current levels, those tax credits and deductions would be a lot more than RL, which would in turn boost our economy.

The problem is I'm not sure we have the funds to allow those tax credits - because your tax credits have to be much lower than what your tax revenue would be without them - otherwise you wont have any money to fund the government.  My understanding is that Badger made his revenue calculation based on RL state tax deduction policy. So I believe we should be starting from RL in terms of what deductions to get rid of, not to add to, given our potential deficit. Some credits may be helpful to economic growth, but most are not worth higher deficits or higher overall tax rates.

The problem is to calculate the RL tax credits in all these areas for multiple states. Would you be able to do it Badger?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

here are links to state tax expenditure reports: http://www.itepnet.org/other_resources/state_tereport.php     (some of them - i read not all states do them and Virginia doesn't seem to have its 5yr report completed)
i dunno if maybe there's a way to make a simple estimate, maybe choose one state that's representative of the region and extrapolate that figure based on the ratio of GDP from state to region?

[Badger]

Yes, in reality the numbers I proposed were complete guestimations to start off the debate. Though if we left them at current levels, those tax credits and deductions would be a lot more than RL, which would in turn boost our economy.

The problem is I'm not sure we have the funds to allow those tax credits - because your tax credits have to be much lower than what your tax revenue would be without them - otherwise you wont have any money to fund the government.  My understanding is that Badger made his revenue calculation based on RL state tax deduction policy. So I believe we should be starting from RL in terms of what deductions to get rid of, not to add to, given our potential deficit. Some credits may be helpful to economic growth, but most are not worth higher deficits or higher overall tax rates.

The problem is to calculate the RL tax credits in all these areas for multiple states. Would you be able to do it Badger?

No.

Seriously though: I would ask you to assume all such taxs deductions exist to the same degree "as in real life". Yes, that varies from state to state. However, if you don't have a strong position (or even familiarity) on the current tax deductability levels, then there's noo reason to change those deduciton levels, is there?

Present me any homework with a cite for your source and I'll gladly do analysis from there.

[California8429]

Yes, in reality the numbers I proposed were complete guestimations to start off the debate. Though if we left them at current levels, those tax credits and deductions would be a lot more than RL, which would in turn boost our economy.

The problem is I'm not sure we have the funds to allow those tax credits - because your tax credits have to be much lower than what your tax revenue would be without them - otherwise you wont have any money to fund the government.  My understanding is that Badger made his revenue calculation based on RL state tax deduction policy. So I believe we should be starting from RL in terms of what deductions to get rid of, not to add to, given our potential deficit. Some credits may be helpful to economic growth, but most are not worth higher deficits or higher overall tax rates.

The problem is to calculate the RL tax credits in all these areas for multiple states. Would you be able to do it Badger?

No.

Seriously though: I would ask you to assume all such taxs deductions exist to the same degree "as in real life". Yes, that varies from state to state. However, if you don't have a strong position (or even familiarity) on the current tax deductability levels, then there's noo reason to change those deduciton levels, is there?

Present me any homework with a cite for your source and I'll gladly do analysis from there.

But that's the problem, how can we change the deduction numbers or not change them from a number we don't have?

[Badger]

Yes, in reality the numbers I proposed were complete guestimations to start off the debate. Though if we left them at current levels, those tax credits and deductions would be a lot more than RL, which would in turn boost our economy.

The problem is I'm not sure we have the funds to allow those tax credits - because your tax credits have to be much lower than what your tax revenue would be without them - otherwise you wont have any money to fund the government.  My understanding is that Badger made his revenue calculation based on RL state tax deduction policy. So I believe we should be starting from RL in terms of what deductions to get rid of, not to add to, given our potential deficit. Some credits may be helpful to economic growth, but most are not worth higher deficits or higher overall tax rates.

The problem is to calculate the RL tax credits in all these areas for multiple states. Would you be able to do it Badger?

No.

Seriously though: I would ask you to assume all such taxs deductions exist to the same degree "as in real life". Yes, that varies from state to state. However, if you don't have a strong position (or even familiarity) on the current tax deductability levels, then there's noo reason to change those deduciton levels, is there?

Present me any homework with a cite for your source and I'll gladly do analysis from there.

But that's the problem, how can we change the deduction numbers or not change them from a number we don't have?

The numbers aren't mine, Governor, they're out there in real life tax statutes. Find them. Google, Wikipedia, etc. It's not that I'm being lazy, I just really don't have time at this moment between China, the GTO bombing, etc. etc. etc.

What I would say is that generally the deductions are allowed in full (i.e. contributions to a Keogh plan, etc). I'm sure there are some limits on some of these deductions, like the $5k limit annually to IRA contributions, but you guys may have to take up the leas there.

What I'd suggest is pick a particular deduction out of that list, and if no one is willing to figure it out individually, do it as a team. there's 5 assembly members plus the gov; everyone take a state or two in the Mideast and look up the RL tax deductability on line. Heck, if it truly is a team effort I'll gladly take a state or two myself to help.

The key here is while I pride myself on being an active number crunching GM, I simply can't do it all. So....GO TEAM MIDEAST!!

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

so if we find the relevant tax statutes, is there a way to calculate the total cost of the deduction?

[Badger]

so if we find the relevant tax statutes, is there a way to calculate the total cost of the deduction?

If you guys/we guys can do step one, I can seriously help---maybe even do entirely--step 2.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Badger, what exactly is it that you need?

[Badger]

Badger, what exactly is it that you need?

Not much. Revelation time: I've been delaying over some PM's exchanged with Muon to determine if the sources and numbers I've been using are fairly realistic. (Who better to ask than an actual IL state legislator?) Nevertheless, I want to get this done before I leave on vacation this weekend. So if someone can add the federal stimulus money to the correct categories of regional expenditures (transportation, etc.), then I will finally get around to figuing out the revenue from proposed excise, estate, and other taxes.

Then you'll have a complete proposed budget with what I preliminarily calculate will be a MASSIVE deficit. Then it'll be up to you guys to figure out what to do about it.

[California8429]

Badger, what exactly is it that you need?

Not much. Revelation time: I've been delaying over some PM's exchanged with Muon to determine if the sources and numbers I've been using are fairly realistic. (Who better to ask than an actual IL state legislator?) Nevertheless, I want to get this done before I leave on vacation this weekend. So if someone can add the federal stimulus money to the correct categories of regional expenditures (transportation, etc.), then I will finally get around to figuing out the revenue from proposed excise, estate, and other taxes.

Then you'll have a complete proposed budget with what I preliminarily calculate will be a MASSIVE deficit. Then it'll be up to you guys to figure out what to do about it.

Can't we just wait to add the stimulus funds at the end to help make up for the deficit?

[Badger]

Badger, what exactly is it that you need?

Not much. Revelation time: I've been delaying over some PM's exchanged with Muon to determine if the sources and numbers I've been using are fairly realistic. (Who better to ask than an actual IL state legislator?) Nevertheless, I want to get this done before I leave on vacation this weekend. So if someone can add the federal stimulus money to the correct categories of regional expenditures (transportation, etc.), then I will finally get around to figuing out the revenue from proposed excise, estate, and other taxes.

Then you'll have a complete proposed budget with what I preliminarily calculate will be a MASSIVE deficit. Then it'll be up to you guys to figure out what to do about it.

Can't we just wait to add the stimulus funds at the end to help make up for the deficit?

Tomato, tomahto. Its the same thing whether its done now or at the end. Either way it reduces the defiicit as it shows less regional dollars being spent on such thing as highways etc.

So again, if someone has 10 minutes to do so......

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I'm a bit concerned about just adding the stimulus dollars into the figures for the general budget.

That means that when the stimulus money runs out, we have to find a new source of revenue and start from scratch on the budget, right? I think it's better to keep it as a separate add on to a baseline spending amount.

[California8429]

I'm a bit concerned about just adding the stimulus dollars into the figures for the general budget.

That means that when the stimulus money runs out, we have to find a new source of revenue and start from scratch on the budget, right? I think it's better to keep it as a separate add on to a baseline spending amount.

The other option would be to raise more taxes right now

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

so here's what what was in the federal stimulus for the mideast region, right?

a. Mideast ($20 billion) 
    1. $10 billion for Health Care, including repair/building of health facilities, child health care deductions, and other various needs.
    2. $1 billion for tax credits on green cars.
    3. $5 billion for rural infrastructure.
    4. $3.9 billion to be put at the direct disposal of the Mideast Regional Government.
    5. $100 million for sexual education classes in the region.

how much is funding for current programs, and how much is for new/temporary programs?

[California8429]

so here's what what was in the federal stimulus for the mideast region, right?

a. Mideast ($20 billion) 
    1. $10 billion for Health Care, including repair/building of health facilities, child health care deductions, and other various needs.
    2. $1 billion for tax credits on green cars.
    3. $5 billion for rural infrastructure.
    4. $3.9 billion to be put at the direct disposal of the Mideast Regional Government.
    5. $100 million for sexual education classes in the region.

how much is funding for current programs, and how much is for new/temporary programs?

I was only talking about the 3.9 billion given to our disposal, if that clears things up

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

so here's what what was in the federal stimulus for the mideast region, right?

a. Mideast ($20 billion) 
    1. $10 billion for Health Care, including repair/building of health facilities, child health care deductions, and other various needs.
    2. $1 billion for tax credits on green cars.
    3. $5 billion for rural infrastructure.
    4. $3.9 billion to be put at the direct disposal of the Mideast Regional Government.
    5. $100 million for sexual education classes in the region.

how much is funding for current programs, and how much is for new/temporary programs?

I was only talking about the 3.9 billion given to our disposal, if that clears things up

are the rest federal programs? or do we need to budget it?

[California8429]

so here's what what was in the federal stimulus for the mideast region, right?

a. Mideast ($20 billion) 
    1. $10 billion for Health Care, including repair/building of health facilities, child health care deductions, and other various needs.
    2. $1 billion for tax credits on green cars.
    3. $5 billion for rural infrastructure.
    4. $3.9 billion to be put at the direct disposal of the Mideast Regional Government.
    5. $100 million for sexual education classes in the region.

how much is funding for current programs, and how much is for new/temporary programs?

I was only talking about the 3.9 billion given to our disposal, if that clears things up

are the rest federal programs? or do we need to budget it?

The rest I was just considering to be extra federal programs on top of our budget. Though if we absolitely had to do balance a budget, we could cut a few billion from health care and be saved this first budget

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

so here's what what was in the federal stimulus for the mideast region, right?

a. Mideast ($20 billion) 
    1. $10 billion for Health Care, including repair/building of health facilities, child health care deductions, and other various needs.
    2. $1 billion for tax credits on green cars.
    3. $5 billion for rural infrastructure.
    4. $3.9 billion to be put at the direct disposal of the Mideast Regional Government.
    5. $100 million for sexual education classes in the region.

how much is funding for current programs, and how much is for new/temporary programs?

I was only talking about the 3.9 billion given to our disposal, if that clears things up

are the rest federal programs? or do we need to budget it?

The rest I was just considering to be extra federal programs on top of our budget. Though if we absolitely had to do balance a budget, we could cut a few billion from health care and be saved this first budget

yeah I really don't see the sense of budgeting anything except what we actually have control over, and that 3.9 G I would suggest we just set aside directly into the revenue column.

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

Wouldn't it be best to balence the budget, not raise taxes and send some of the stimulus back to the Feds? The better thing to do would be to cut spending.