A Second Chance - CONCLUSION

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Awesome.  Who is Noel again?  What/why does he run?  Or is he just like Rick Santorum with no nationwide campaign experience, who decides to throw his hat into the ring anyway?

He's sort of a Northern "pissed off white male" figure. Basically, you'd find a ttl version of me probably supporting him. In OTL he was Governor of Rhode Island and I think he ran for Senate in '76, but lost to Chaffee. In this, however, given that Chaffee won the Senate election four years earlier and there's bigger turnout in RI thanks to RFK on the ticket, Noel is able to make it. There wasn't much info on him when I first started looking into him, so I've molded him into what I see fit: The candidate of pissed off blue collars who're socially conservative and don't have much taste for all this Civil Rights stuff. Given that Noel's running in the 80's, however, his candidacy is about twelve to twenty years too late.

[Jerseyrules]

Awesome.  Who is Noel again?  What/why does he run?  Or is he just like Rick Santorum with no nationwide campaign experience, who decides to throw his hat into the ring anyway?

He's sort of a Northern "pissed off white male" figure. Basically, you'd find a ttl version of me probably supporting him. In OTL he was Governor of Rhode Island and I think he ran for Senate in '76, but lost to Chaffee. In this, however, given that Chaffee won the Senate election four years earlier and there's bigger turnout in RI thanks to RFK on the ticket, Noel is able to make it. There wasn't much info on him when I first started looking into him, so I've molded him into what I see fit: The candidate of pissed off blue collars who're socially conservative and don't have much taste for all this Civil Rights stuff. Given that Noel's running in the 80's, however, his candidacy is about twelve to twenty years too late.

So he's like a northeastern George Wallace?  Interesting....  Helms / Noel (or Glenn, Ferraro, etc) in 88!

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Awesome.  Who is Noel again?  What/why does he run?  Or is he just like Rick Santorum with no nationwide campaign experience, who decides to throw his hat into the ring anyway?

He's sort of a Northern "pissed off white male" figure. Basically, you'd find a ttl version of me probably supporting him. In OTL he was Governor of Rhode Island and I think he ran for Senate in '76, but lost to Chaffee. In this, however, given that Chaffee won the Senate election four years earlier and there's bigger turnout in RI thanks to RFK on the ticket, Noel is able to make it. There wasn't much info on him when I first started looking into him, so I've molded him into what I see fit: The candidate of pissed off blue collars who're socially conservative and don't have much taste for all this Civil Rights stuff. Given that Noel's running in the 80's, however, his candidacy is about twelve to twenty years too late.

So he's like a northeastern George Wallace?  Interesting....  Helms / Noel (or Glenn, Ferraro, etc) in 88!

I was planning on avoiding that phrasing, but it seems appropriate.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

If I could re-do 1972 with the same major party candidates, I'd take away the third party and I'd change the map to look like this:

Governor Spiro T. Agnew (R-MD)/Senator George H.W. Bush (R-TX) 286 electoral votes, 49.7% of the popular vote
Vice President Terry Sanford (D-NC)/Senator Hubert H. Humphrey (D-MN) 252 electoral votes, 48.2% of the popular vote

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

How did you get RI to be purple? I thought the colors were Red, Blue, Green, Orange, Yellow, and Gray.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

How did you get RI to be purple? I thought the colors were Red, Blue, Green, Orange, Yellow, and Gray.

Microsoft Paint, m'lad! If you look at the primary results thread in Election Results, you'll see there's an entire scale of colors not included in the map code. They include two different types of purple and a blue-green (I have yet to get my hands on beige). I copied the maps into paint, removed all the different colors and put them into a handy little chart, and I just copy that into a map file and put colors where they need to go. You can get maps into paint by pressing the "PrntScrn" button in the top right of your keyboard.

[MATTROSE94]

Overall, this is an incredible timeline! The only complain that I have is that you should have went over some of the important events in Richard Nixon's term such as the Cuban Missle Crisis and the passing of the Civil rights Act of 1963 in more depth. Other than that, this is an awesome timeline that should continue on!

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Overall, this is an incredible timeline! The only complain that I have is that you should have went over some of the important events in Richard Nixon's term such as the Cuban Missle Crisis and the passing of the Civil rights Act of 1963 in more depth. Other than that, this is an awesome timeline that should continue on!

Thanks a lot! When I started this out, it was meant to be from a 1968 POV so that one could get the context of where I was trying to go (anti-war Republican vs. Pro-war Democrat) and thus Nixon's presidency was only referred to in hindsight.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

March 15th:
Alaska Democratic Caucuses

Brown-56%
Mondale-20%
Helms-12%
Jackson-7%
Gravel (Write-in)-5%

March 17th:
Arkansas Democratic Caucuses

Helms-47%
Jackson-31%
Mondale-18%
Brown-4%

Michigan Democratic Caucuses

Mondale-42%
Jackson-28%
Helms-17%
Brown-13%

Mississippi Democratic Caucuses

Jackson-37%
Helms-36%
Mondale-18%
Brown-9%

South Carolina Democratic Caucuses

Helms-52%
Jackson-40%
Mondale-6%
Brown-2%

March 20th:
Illinois Primary

Mondale-38%
Jackson-33%
Brown-16%
Helms-13%

Minnesota Democratic Caucuses

Mondale-67%
Brown-23%
Brown-6%
Helms-4%

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Well isn't it typical! I have this huge update (number of words-wise) in the works and I move my laptop and find out the internet was exited out of.

[Jerseyrules]

Well isn't it typical! I have this huge update (number of words-wise) in the works and I move my laptop and find out the internet was exited out of.

That's happened to me, except I have iPad, I'll look for a pic to go with the update, then once I go back to the tab with the update, it automatically refreshes itself.  Sucks.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

March 22nd, 1984
A private phone conversation between Walter Mondale and Jerry Brown, two of the contenders for the Democratic nomination.
    Mondale: Jerry, I'm seriously worried that the way this race is shaping up. If the party is split enough, I could see this heading in the wrong direction. We'll be weakened in the general election, and heck, I can see Helms winning the nomination if there's enough splitting of the liberal vote.
    Brown: I could say the same thing. Why are you calling me about it?
    Mondale: If Helms wins Kansas because of vote splitting, this'll present a serious problem for the party.
    Brown: Well I don't intend on letting that happen. Do you?
    Mondale: My point is that if the party's left is split, Helms has a chance of taking this party's nomination. Do you want to see that?
    Brown: As you know, I don't. But as you can see by the fact I'm running, I don't want to see you with the nomination either.
    Mondale: Look, I'm offering you a deal. You drop out now and help unite the party, you will end up with the second spot on the ticket, and regardless of victory in November, you'll be the man best prepared for the next election.
    Brown: Mondale, I'm going to keep fighting on and no deal like that's going to stop this campaign. In the most recent polls, you're coming in a close third in Kansas and I'm not gonna be scared out of this race.
    Mondale: You're making a big- **Click** At the sound of the tone, the time will be...

"Both Brown and Helms were lambasting Kansas, and I was surprised to see them using similar rhetoric. Helms perhaps said it best, "Perhapse the single most important figure in the Democratic coalition is the farmer. It was for the farmer that Jefferson founded the first Democratic party, and it was to represent those interests once more that Jackson created the second one. Men like Franklin D. Roosevelt and Harry Truman wouldn't be able to call themselves President if not for support from the South and West. I can guarantee you, people of Kansas, that a Helms administration will put rural interests first and foremost." However, there was one thing Helms wasn't counting on: most farmers are registered Republicans in this state. The Democrats are built mainly on cities like Topeka, and that's where Brown comes in. Meanwhile, Mondale is trapped, as he's meant to appeal to both these groups and he's being eaten away on both ends."

-Sheeple: The 1984 Election, Hunter S. Thompson, ©1985

March 24th
Kansas Caucuses

Brown-33%
Helms-32%
Mondale-29%
Jackson-6%

March 25th
Montana Primary

Brown-47%
Mondale-27%
Helms-9%
Jackson

March 26th
Virginia Caucuses

Helms-43%
Jackson-31%
Mondale-17%
Brown-9%

March 27th
Connecticut Primary

Brown-37%
Mondale-36%
Jackson-17%
Helms-9%

March 28th
North Dakota Caucuses

Mondale-54%
Brown-28%
Helms-14%
Jackson-4%

March 31st
Kentucky Caucuses

Helms-45%
Mondale-31%
Brown-15%
Jackson-19%

[Incipimus iterum]

i can't believe i'm saying this but Go Helms!

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

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April 3rd
New York Primary

Mondale-35%
Brown-33%
Jackson-19%
Helms-13%

April 7th
Wisconsin Caucuses

Brown-38%
Mondale-32%
Helms-16%
Jackson-14%

"The same state, the same exact state that gave George Wallace victory in both '72 and '76, gave Jesse Helms only 16% of the vote!"

-Sheeple: The 1984 Election, Hunter S. Thompson, ©1985

April 10th
Pennsylvania Primary

Mondale-45%
Helms-21%
Jackson-18%
Brown-Brown-16%

April 14th
Arizona Caucuses

Brown-52%
Mondale-27%
Helms-15%
Jackson-6%

April 18th
Missouri Caucuses

Helms-38%
Mondale-34%
Brown-16%
Jackson-12%

April 25th
Utah Caucuses

Brown-37%
Mondale-31%
Helms-27%
Jackson-5%

Map of the 1984 Democratic Primaries

Blue-Senator Walter Mondale of Minnesota
Yellow-Senator Jerry Brown of California
Red-Senator Jesse Helms of North Carolina
Green-Reverend Jesse Jackson of Illinois
Purple-Senator Philip W. Noel of Rhode Island

[Jerseyrules]

Wait, was Wallace shot ITTL?

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Wait, was Wallace shot ITTL?

No. Bremer shot Agnew on July 4th, 1973. Wallace is still around and is Governor of Alabama, got rid of his racist rhetoric as in TTL. He isn't running anymore, etc.

[Jerseyrules]

Wait, was Wallace shot ITTL?

No. Bremer shot Agnew on July 4th, 1973. Wallace is still around and is Governor of Alabama, got rid of his racist rhetoric as in TTL. He isn't running anymore, etc.

Did he still retain the "pissed off white man" aura as ITTL?  I wonder if he would've changed even if he weren't shot as otl, because he was quoted saying "I don't wanna meet my maker with unforgiven sins" after his pivot on Civil Rights

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Wait, was Wallace shot ITTL?

No. Bremer shot Agnew on July 4th, 1973. Wallace is still around and is Governor of Alabama, got rid of his racist rhetoric as in TTL. He isn't running anymore, etc.

Did he still retain the "pissed off white man" aura as ITTL?  I wonder if he would've changed even if he weren't shot as otl, because he was quoted saying "I don't wanna meet my maker with unforgiven sins" after his pivot on Civil Rights

Eh, I chose to have him repent. I'm not in a mood to think that much about it. For his time, however, yes he was the pissed off white male. He won more states in '68 than in OTL, and won more primaries in '76 than OTL.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

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June 6th, 1984

Dem Primaries Over!
Nomination to go to Convention?

With the final round of primaries being a complete split between the front-runners, there is no presumptive nominee for the Democratic nomination. With Mondale having the delegate lead, he nonetheless is nowhere near a majority. He's taken the North, Jerry Brown has taken the West, Jesse Helms has taken the South, and Jesse Jackson and Phillip Noel have had their own couple of victories. However, no-one has the delegate, support, or appeal to take the definitive lead. Therefore, unless some surprise is to happen in the next month, this will likely be taken straight to the Democratic National Convention in San Francisco in July.

"Dammit. That's it. If this party can't even decide on a damn nominee, how are they supposed to be able to scrape together something even close to a victory in November? Besides, unless someone like Jerry Brown is able to get the necessary delegates, I don't even plan on voting for this fuckup of a so-called political party in November. Especially now that it'll be a floor fight, with the old bosses like the Daleys and labor coming out of the woodwork, Brown's more unlikely to win than ever. Ah screw it. Right now I don't think I'll even be attending the convention at this rate."

-Sheeple: The 1984 Election, Hunter S. Thompson, ©1985

Final Democratic Primary Map

Blue-Senator Walter Mondale of Minnesota (1465 delegates)
Red-Senator Jesse Helms of North Carolina (1191 delegates)
Yellow-Senator Jerry Brown of California (959 delegates)
Green-Reverend Jesse Jackson of Illinois (162 delegates)
Pruple-Senator Philip W. Noel of Rhode Island (27 delegates)

[Jerseyrules]

Interesting.  Btw, I can understand your decision regarding Wallace, honestly I'm not sure what I'd have him do, except maybe confess on his deathbed.  Why did he sit out 80 and 84, and who did he endorse, out of curiousity?

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Interesting.  Btw, I can understand your decision regarding Wallace, honestly I'm not sure what I'd have him do, except maybe confess on his deathbed.  Why did he sit out 80 and 84, and who did he endorse, out of curiousity?

In 1980, the southern Democrats as a whole decided to support Kennedy as the opposition to the insurgent McCarthy. While a Southern candidate, maybe Wallace even, could have done very well, it very well could've split the vote in the South and parts of the West and Mid-West. Instead, they chose to support Kennedy due to his anti-communist foreign policy and general moderation. (Though, Wallace did receive write-in support in Alabama, making his state the only southern state to go for someone in under 50% margins) Wallace chose not to endorse anyone in '84, now more uncomfortable with Helm's rhetoric and not trusting him ("He's the candidate for Big Tobacco and Big Tobacco only!") as a candidate of the "common man", but also seeing the others as worse. By '84, as in RL, he was irrelevant and not factored in as a potential candidate.

[Jerseyrules]

Interesting.  Btw, I can understand your decision regarding Wallace, honestly I'm not sure what I'd have him do, except maybe confess on his deathbed.  Why did he sit out 80 and 84, and who did he endorse, out of curiousity?

In 1980, the southern Democrats as a whole decided to support Kennedy as the opposition to the insurgent McCarthy. While a Southern candidate, maybe Wallace even, could have done very well, it very well could've split the vote in the South and parts of the West and Mid-West. Instead, they chose to support Kennedy due to his anti-communist foreign policy and general moderation. (Though, Wallace did receive write-in support in Alabama, making his state the only southern state to go for someone in under 50% margins) Wallace chose not to endorse anyone in '84, now more uncomfortable with Helm's rhetoric and not trusting him ("He's the candidate for Big Tobacco and Big Tobacco only!") as a candidate of the "common man", but also seeing the others as worse. By '84, as in RL, he was irrelevant and not factored in as a potential candidate.

Makes sense.  Keep up with updates

[GLPman]

Looking forward to the convention. I'm secretly hoping for an anti-Mondale candidate to seal the nomination.

[MATTROSE94]

Overall, this is an incredible timeline! The only complain that I have is that you should have went over some of the important events in Richard Nixon's term such as the Cuban Missle Crisis and the passing of the Civil rights Act of 1963 in more depth. Other than that, this is an awesome timeline that should continue on!

Thanks a lot! When I started this out, it was meant to be from a 1968 POV so that one could get the context of where I was trying to go (anti-war Republican vs. Pro-war Democrat) and thus Nixon's presidency was only referred to in hindsight.

I understand what you mean about the POV of the timeline. I just have one question about the War in Vietnam. Was it originally escalated by President Nixon in 1964 or not until Kennedy took office in 1965?

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Overall, this is an incredible timeline! The only complain that I have is that you should have went over some of the important events in Richard Nixon's term such as the Cuban Missle Crisis and the passing of the Civil rights Act of 1963 in more depth. Other than that, this is an awesome timeline that should continue on!

Thanks a lot! When I started this out, it was meant to be from a 1968 POV so that one could get the context of where I was trying to go (anti-war Republican vs. Pro-war Democrat) and thus Nixon's presidency was only referred to in hindsight.

I understand what you mean about the POV of the timeline. I just have one question about the War in Vietnam. Was it originally escalated by President Nixon in 1964 or not until Kennedy took office in 1965?

Eh, we'll say Nixon escalated it following Gulf of Tonkin.