Assange arrested

[Gustaf]

Indeed the fact that the crimes he's accused of in Sweden might not actually constitute crimes in the UK at all

Why do people keep saying that when it is obviously not true?

Actually I'll make a retraction in so far as the charge relating to having sex with a sleeping woman would quite probably constitute rape per British law.

The rest I'm not so sure would constitute crimes in Britain in the absence of further detail (the most likely candidate is the charge relating to violation of sexual integrity might have a correlative law in Britain - but I don't know enough about the specifics of Swedish or British law to say with any certainty).

The one about the not using the condom. If consent was conditional on the use of a condom and he didn't use one, then consent is not present. That's rape.

Especially if the woman is sleeping.

Wait, you have a sense of humor? 

Apparently not, because I'm not following you now...

Silent Hunter: Swedish papers aren't as keen on printing the unofficial stuff, but from what I saw, one of the women had said that she would only have sex with a condom and then woke up in the morning to Assange having sex with her without one. 

[Reaganfan]

The biggest problem with extradition treaty countries is that even if they release a suspect into United States custody, they give us the "no death penalty" ultimatum before doing so and hold us to it. Shows the spine of the United States versus many other countries.

[Franzl]

So what would be preferable for the US? Stay stubborn and not get to prosecute at all?

[Middle-aged Europe]

So what would be preferable for the US? Stay stubborn and not get to prosecute at all?

But it interferes with the national sovereignty of the United States! OMG!

(Which of course happens all the time in the increasingly interconnected world we live in. The United States probably does it more often with other countries than other countries with the United States.... interfering, I mean. The only way around it is going the North Korean route, I guess.)

[Insula Dei]

Well, American prisons are worse than death anyway.

[Franzl]

Well, American prisons are worse than dead anyway.

lol...do you actually believe that?

[Silent Hunter]

Indeed the fact that the crimes he's accused of in Sweden might not actually constitute crimes in the UK at all

Why do people keep saying that when it is obviously not true?

Actually I'll make a retraction in so far as the charge relating to having sex with a sleeping woman would quite probably constitute rape per British law.

The rest I'm not so sure would constitute crimes in Britain in the absence of further detail (the most likely candidate is the charge relating to violation of sexual integrity might have a correlative law in Britain - but I don't know enough about the specifics of Swedish or British law to say with any certainty).

The one about the not using the condom. If consent was conditional on the use of a condom and he didn't use one, then consent is not present. That's rape.

I'd probably agree that it should in certain circumstances constitute a sexual offence, but I'm not convinced that it does in law definitively amount to one.

I'm not aware of any statutary basis on which one could base such a claim (I presume English law maintains a subjective test with regard to the reasonableness for the grounds of the accused's assessment of consent?). R v Linekar might provide some solace to your argument, but the facts are readily enough distinguishable.

I'm not aware of any successful prosecutions along the lines of conditional consent with regard to condom usage/non-usage. But very grateful for anything you might be able to shed light on.

I don't think there has been, though I'm no expert.

The irony of all this is - the paper that published the Swedish police reports is The Guardian, which is also one of the papers with the Wikileaks cables...

[Insula Dei]

Well, American prisons are worse than dead anyway.

lol...do you actually believe that?

yeah, I actually think it might be

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Well, American prisons are worse than dead anyway.

lol...do you actually believe that?

yeah, I actually think it might be

Dude, San Quentin is not a federal penitentiary.

[Silent Hunter]

Dude, San Quentin is not a federal penitentiary.

It is, though, an American prison.

If Assange did end up in a US jail, I don't think he'd end up in a supermax, but I may be wrong.

[Insula Dei]

Dude, San Quentin is not a federal penitentiary.

It is, though, an American prison.
.

[Franzl]

One notorious prison in California isn't neccesarily representative for "American prisons". I think most prisons give prisoners too much...in the U.S., but especially in Europe. It's certainly not hell on Earth.

[Јas]

One notorious prison in California isn't neccesarily representative for "American prisons". I think most prisons give prisoners too much...in the U.S., but especially in Europe. It's certainly not hell on Earth.

Depends what prisons you've been visiting.

[opebo]

One notorious prison in California isn't neccesarily representative for "American prisons". I think most prisons give prisoners too much...in the U.S., but especially in Europe. It's certainly not hell on Earth.

Your statement is both ignorant and offensive.

[Gustaf]

One notorious prison in California isn't neccesarily representative for "American prisons". I think most prisons give prisoners too much...in the U.S., but especially in Europe. It's certainly not hell on Earth.

Your statement is both ignorant and offensive.

Don't be such a prude, imposing your morality on others.

[Edu]

If US prisions are worse than death and hell on earth i wonder what OUR prisions (or most of the rest of the world) would be considered

[Хahar 🤔]

The biggest problem with extradition treaty countries is that even if they release a suspect into United States custody, they give us the "no death penalty" ultimatum before doing so and hold us to it. Shows the spine of the United States versus many other countries.

The way you see the world is wrong.

[opebo]

One notorious prison in California isn't neccesarily representative for "American prisons". I think most prisons give prisoners too much...in the U.S., but especially in Europe. It's certainly not hell on Earth.

Your statement is both ignorant and offensive.

Don't be such a prude, imposing your morality on others.

I never said it was 'wrong' for Franzl to want to torture prisoners, I merely said it was ignorant and offensive.

[Gustaf]

One notorious prison in California isn't neccesarily representative for "American prisons". I think most prisons give prisoners too much...in the U.S., but especially in Europe. It's certainly not hell on Earth.

Your statement is both ignorant and offensive.

Don't be such a prude, imposing your morality on others.

I never said it was 'wrong' for Franzl to want to torture prisoners, I merely said it was ignorant and offensive.

I can't think of anything more prudish than to be offended by something. Did it upset your delicate sensibilities?

[opebo]

I can't think of anything more prudish than to be offended by something. Did it upset your delicate sensibilities?

Certainly.  When the prisoner is subject to continuous anal rape and one's interlocutor states that he is 'given too much' (presumably referring to the provision of a television set or mattress pad), one can hardly be blamed for having some reaction.

[Gustaf]

I can't think of anything more prudish than to be offended by something. Did it upset your delicate sensibilities?

Certainly.  When the prisoner is subject to continuous anal rape and one's interlocutor states that he is 'given too much' (presumably referring to the provision of a television set or mattress pad), one can hardly be blamed for having some reaction.

Since you think reacting negatively to anal rape of women is prudish I was surprised by this. But that's probably because I constantly forget that you don't count women as real humans.

[opebo]

Since you think reacting negatively to anal rape of women is prudish I was surprised by this. But that's probably because I constantly forget that you don't count women as real humans.

I think Assange just forgot to wear a condom or something like that, and it was only in the front door.

[Gustaf]

Since you think reacting negatively to anal rape of women is prudish I was surprised by this. But that's probably because I constantly forget that you don't count women as real humans.

I think Assange just forgot to wear a condom or something like that, and it was only in the front door.

That's not what I was referring to. I was thinking of the Polanski case. And he didn't "forget".

[opebo]

That's not what I was referring to. I was thinking of the Polanski case.

Well yes.  One can maintain that there is insufficient proof of rape in the Polanski case, while simultaneously critiquing a prison management system which allows pervasive and endemic rape.  There's no inconsistency there.

What is it that Gustaf is always doing? I forget - straw man? I forget the name of his favorite fallacious arguments.