Dem Congressman: "F-ck the President"

[LBJ Revivalist]

Depends on the economy. Obama's move to the center won't matter at all if the economy is still in the dumps in 2012. He does have the potential benefit of facing someone like Palin or Gingrich, though.

Yeah I heard about this... but honestly, it's one Democrat saying something stupid in a back room.

I genuinely think Obama's move to the center will be his saving grace come November 2012.

What move to the center? All he has been showing himself to be so far is spineless and nothing more that a political chameleon. Now his party's progressive base is pissed off at him. As far as I'm concerned, his chances at reelection are much less likely than Clinton's after 94. Clinton had the magical touch like Reagan had for his party of compromising his principles, but still being beloved by his base. Obama appears to be very academic in his approach to governing, and doesn't appear to have the ability to empathize with the average voter like Reagan and Clinton did. His saving grace will only be if Palin or Huckabee are the nominees for president, and that is a very big if.

No, Obama will win by a large margin. Moderate heroism sells.

It worked out excellently for Jerry Ford in '76 and Carter in '80.

I don't think you understand what I mean.

Well what do you mean?
I just disagree with your statement that moderate heroism sells. The only moderate hero to win in recent history was Clinton, and he won just by a string.

Won by a string? He won in 1996 by much more then a string...

He couldn't even muster 50.0% in '96 (though, that probably was due to Perot)...Even so, the vote was not that far apart between him and Dole--Which is saying something, because IMO, Dole was a worse candidate than McCain.
I mean, Bill wasn't as massively popular in his own time, it seems, as we have made him over time, you know? As history remembers him at least as of now.

I'll put it this way (because I like to compare Clinton to Eisenhower): 1996 was no 1956.

[Хahar 🤔]

Feel free to rewrite history as you see fit, but you can't expect the rest of us to agree with your dystopian scenario.

[Psychic Octopus]

Clinton's margin of victory was over eight points... that is not a "string." Dole wasn't the best the GOP could do, but he was a genuine war hero with decades of experience. Clinton was the first president since FDR to win a second term, and you are calling him not popular? His approval rating was through the roof even when he was lying about cheating on his wife, for god's sake! Even today, Bill Clinton is the most popular politician in the country!

I am starting to get the idea that you want your own little preverse fascist fantasy to come to fruition. You seem to defend it all points...

[LBJ Revivalist]

Clinton's margin of victory was over eight points... that is not a "string." Dole wasn't the best the GOP could do, but he was a genuine war hero with decades of experience. Clinton was the first president since FDR to win a second term, and you are calling him not popular? His approval rating was through the roof even when he was lying about cheating on his wife, for god's sake! Even today, Bill Clinton is the most popular politician in the country!

I am starting to get the idea that you want your own little preverse fascist fantasy to come to fruition. You seem to defend it all points...

I'm not saying he wasn't popular--He was. I just think his popularity has been a little overblown in retrospect. As to Dole, I mean the same, "He was a respected war hero" argument could be made about McCain in 2008. He won by 9 points, yes, but it was still not an overwhelming victory like Reagan in 1984 or even a small landslide like Obama in '08. He should have been more popular (Clinton I mean).

And yeah, he was the first Democrat re-elected since FDR BUT neither Truman nor LBJ sought re-election and Carter generally didn't do a good job. It's not like there were that many post FDR Democratic President.

And what ''fascist fantasy'' do you think I have? I just want to see the Democratic Party prosper.

[Psychic Octopus]

Clinton's margin of victory was over eight points... that is not a "string." Dole wasn't the best the GOP could do, but he was a genuine war hero with decades of experience. Clinton was the first president since FDR to win a second term, and you are calling him not popular? His approval rating was through the roof even when he was lying about cheating on his wife, for god's sake! Even today, Bill Clinton is the most popular politician in the country!

I am starting to get the idea that you want your own little preverse fascist fantasy to come to fruition. You seem to defend it all points...

I'm not saying he wasn't popular--He was. I just think his popularity has been a little overblown in retrospect. As to Dole, I mean the same, "He was a respected war hero" argument could be made about McCain in 2008. He won by 9 points, yes, but it was still not an overwhelming victory like Reagan in 1984 or even a small landslide like Obama in '08. He should have been more popular (Clinton I mean).

And yeah, he was the first Democrat re-elected since FDR BUT neither Truman nor LBJ sought re-election and Carter generally didn't do a good job. It's not like there were that many post FDR Democratic President.

And what ''fascist fantasy'' do you think I have? I just want to see the Democratic Party prosper.

Clinton won more electoral votes and had a larger margin of victory then our current president. There was a period of time where Clinton had an approval rating higher then seventy percent, which Reagan never achieved. So, uh, there it is.

Truman and LBJ would, in all likelihood, have lost re-election. Of course Kennedy would have won, but that's neither here nor there. Clinton won, after the right forecast his demise. Counts for something.

As for your "fascist fantasy," you know more about it then I do. "THE RIGHT IS TAKING OVER! NEW GILDED AGE!" et cetera. You defend its plausibility in almost every post you make. It is like you want one.

[LBJ Revivalist]

Clinton's margin of victory was over eight points... that is not a "string." Dole wasn't the best the GOP could do, but he was a genuine war hero with decades of experience. Clinton was the first president since FDR to win a second term, and you are calling him not popular? His approval rating was through the roof even when he was lying about cheating on his wife, for god's sake! Even today, Bill Clinton is the most popular politician in the country!

I am starting to get the idea that you want your own little preverse fascist fantasy to come to fruition. You seem to defend it all points...

I'm not saying he wasn't popular--He was. I just think his popularity has been a little overblown in retrospect. As to Dole, I mean the same, "He was a respected war hero" argument could be made about McCain in 2008. He won by 9 points, yes, but it was still not an overwhelming victory like Reagan in 1984 or even a small landslide like Obama in '08. He should have been more popular (Clinton I mean).

And yeah, he was the first Democrat re-elected since FDR BUT neither Truman nor LBJ sought re-election and Carter generally didn't do a good job. It's not like there were that many post FDR Democratic President.

And what ''fascist fantasy'' do you think I have? I just want to see the Democratic Party prosper.

Clinton won more electoral votes and had a larger margin of victory then our current president. There was a period of time where Clinton had an approval rating higher then seventy percent, which Reagan never achieved. So, uh, there it is.

Truman and LBJ would, in all likelihood, have lost re-election. Of course Kennedy would have won, but that's neither here nor there. Clinton won, after the right forecast his demise. Counts for something.

As for your "fascist fantasy," you know more about it then I do. "THE RIGHT IS TAKING OVER! NEW GILDED AGE!" et cetera. You defend its plausibility in almost every post you make. It is like you want one.

I don't want one, I just worry about it happening. I find that even many of my own friends--Who are young like me--are turning rightward. Many of these same people supported Obama in '08 yet are turning to--I kid you not--Ron Paul now.

The only benefit of a "New Gilded Age" is maybe people would see how horrid Laissez-Faire capitalism is and it would be defeated once and fall. But even so--that's an iffy thing and it's not worth the cost in trying that out again.

So, no, I don't want another Gilded Ages. I'd take another New Deal era, or even another Clinton '90s, over that.

[President Mitt]

I genuinely think Obama's move to the center will be his saving grace come November 2012.

Is it even possible to move further to the center?

[Napoleon]

I genuinely think Obama's move to the center will be his saving grace come November 2012.

Is it even possible to move further to the center?

A sharp lurch to the left might do the trick.

[Mjh]

I genuinely think Obama's move to the center will be his saving grace come November 2012.

Is it even possible to move further to the center?

A sharp lurch to the left might do the trick.

If he wants to make the presidency of Sarah Palin or Mike Huckabee possible then sure.

[Napoleon]

I genuinely think Obama's move to the center will be his saving grace come November 2012.

Is it even possible to move further to the center?

A sharp lurch to the left might do the trick.

If he wants to make the presidency of Sarah Palin or Mike Huckabee possible then sure.

Obama had higher approval ratings working on the stimulus than he does after extending the Bush tax cuts.

[Keystone Phil]

Obama had higher approval ratings working on the stimulus than he does after extending the Bush tax cuts.

That was during his honeymoon...

[Napoleon]

Obama had higher approval ratings working on the stimulus than he does after extending the Bush tax cuts.

That was during his honeymoon...

True, but unless the President and Congress contrast enough, there will be no Democratic enthusiasm in 2012. You can only enrage your base so much. Why do you think Bush saved immigration reform for his second term? Obama needs to stay positive and if the Republicans want to try to block everything, they can face the voters' wrath in 2012. It would be like 1996 all over again, especially with the weak Republican field. Not that I expect Obama to show that he has a spine on anything, of course. If he had done a better job defending his proposals, he would have prevented a lot of unnecessary losses last November. Letting Pelosi and Reid define the Democratic party was a huge and unforgivable mistake.