US House Redistricting: Utah

[BigSkyBob]

http://www.redistrictutah.com/maps/sb3002s17


These cracks keep getting better and better.

All the comments on that page are negative...even the ones from Republicans.

Which "Republicans" would that be?

Maybe, this one:

"I am 'far right wing' republican, and am frustrated with the legislature with these maps."

In my entire life I have never meet a Republican whom characterized himself as "far right wing." I have encountered Democrats pretending to be Republicans describe themselves as such.

[BigSkyBob]

http://www.redistrictutah.com/maps/sb3002s17


These cracks keep getting better and better.

All the comments on that page are negative...even the ones from Republicans.

Which "Republicans" would that be?

Maybe, this one:

"I am 'far right wing' republican, and am frustrated with the legislature with these maps."

In my entire life I have never meet a Republican whom characterized himself as "far right wing." I have encountered Democrats pretending to be Republicans describe themselves as such.

Ahhh, its always refreshing to hear from my good friend BS Bob!

I've met Republicans who would probably characterize themselves in such a way; you shouldn't base your argument on such a provincial claim.

Either you have meet Republicans who did characterize themselves in such a way, or you haven't.

I, personally, have never meet such a person. Nor, is it a claim very consistent with human nature. I meet people whom would consider themselves "very conservative," but, I have never meet a person whom called himself "far right wing." Generally, conservatives believe "right wing" is a slur made against conservatives because "conservative" simply doesn't carry the baggage "liberal" does.

[BigSkyBob]

http://www.redistrictutah.com/maps/sb3002s17


These cracks keep getting better and better.

All the comments on that page are negative...even the ones from Republicans.

Which "Republicans" would that be?

Maybe, this one:

"I am 'far right wing' republican, and am frustrated with the legislature with these maps."

In my entire life I have never meet a Republican whom characterized himself as "far right wing." I have encountered Democrats pretending to be Republicans describe themselves as such.

Ahhh, its always refreshing to hear from my good friend BS Bob!

I've met Republicans who would probably characterize themselves in such a way; you shouldn't base your argument on such a provincial claim.

Either you have meet Republicans who did characterize themselves in such a way, or you haven't.

I, personally, have never meet such a person. Nor, is it a claim very consistent with human nature. I meet people whom would consider themselves "very conservative," but, I have never meet a person whom called himself "far right wing." Generally, conservatives believe "right wing" is a slur made against conservatives because "conservative" simply doesn't carry the baggage "liberal" does.

It's not much that "right wing" is a slur, but "far right" certainly is. "Far right" is most commonly used to describe neo-Nazi and other white nationalist-esque groups. To call someone who is merely very conservative "far right" is to call upon that equivocation. A self-identified "very conservative" person would not describe themselves as such for that very reason.

That is why I believe that the poster was in fact a Democrat.

In a political debate I consider it best for the Democrats to state their position, and the Republicans to state their's; the left their position, and the right their position, etc. Democrats shouldn't tell Republicans what their position is, and, visa versa.  When that Democratic poster postured as a "far right wing Republican" and when Miles spoke on behalf of Republicans, without having any evidence that any Republican in fact agreed with him, they violated what I believe ought to propriety in political discourse. Civil discourse requires civil behavior.

[BigSkyBob]

http://www.redistrictutah.com/maps/sb3002s17


These cracks keep getting better and better.

All the comments on that page are negative...even the ones from Republicans.

Which "Republicans" would that be?

Maybe, this one:

"I am 'far right wing' republican, and am frustrated with the legislature with these maps."

In my entire life I have never meet a Republican whom characterized himself as "far right wing." I have encountered Democrats pretending to be Republicans describe themselves as such.

Ahhh, its always refreshing to hear from my good friend BS Bob!

I've met Republicans who would probably characterize themselves in such a way; you shouldn't base your argument on such a provincial claim.

Either you have meet Republicans who did characterize themselves in such a way, or you haven't.

I, personally, have never meet such a person. Nor, is it a claim very consistent with human nature. I meet people whom would consider themselves "very conservative," but, I have never meet a person whom called himself "far right wing." Generally, conservatives believe "right wing" is a slur made against conservatives because "conservative" simply doesn't carry the baggage "liberal" does.

It's not much that "right wing" is a slur, but "far right" certainly is. "Far right" is most commonly used to describe neo-Nazi and other white nationalist-esque groups. To call someone who is merely very conservative "far right" is to call upon that equivocation. A self-identified "very conservative" person would not describe themselves as such for that very reason.

That is why I believe that the poster was in fact a Democrat.

And I believe you're reading too far into this.

And, I believe that you were wrong to take his proclamation that he was "very far right" Republican at face value. His statement simply strains all credibility.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I simply have not "attacked you." I have pointed out that you are making an assumption that a certain posters was a "very right wing" Republicans simply because he claimed it. People engage in false-flag tactics on the internet all the time. There is absolutely nothing personal in my noting that. If you take it personally, that is not my fault. On the other hand, claiming that I have "attacked you" when I haven't is an attack against me.

If you wish to have "amicable" relationships with folks whom have significant policy differences from you, then, I suggest you eschew certain tactics. When you try to pass off someone whom acts like a bad caricature as an authentic Republican you should expect a reply of, "How stupid do you think I am?"

[BigSkyBob]

I simply have not "attacked you." I have pointed out that you are making an assumption that a certain posters was a "very right wing" Republicans simply because he claimed it. People engage in false-flag tactics on the internet all the time. There is absolutely nothing personal in my noting that. If you take it personally, that is not my fault. On the other hand, claiming that I have "attacked you" when I haven't is an attack against me.

If you wish to have "amicable" relationships with folks whom have significant policy differences from you, then, I suggest you eschew certain tactics. When you try to pass off someone whom acts like a bad caricature as an authentic Republican you should expect a reply of, "How stupid do you think I am?"

A few things:

FINE; I'll admit that my original comment was based off of a pretty cursory look at the comments.
Can you just let this die now!!? Jeez, its not like I insulted your mother or anything. (cough, cough, kinda like what you did to Nathan...)

1) I presumed that Nathan's mother was a decent and virtuous woman whom attempted to instill proper moral training in Nathan.

2) You have just attacked me a second and third time. This is hardly the behavior of someone whom wants to "let it die."

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Fourth attack.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Fifth attack.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Sixth attack.

Again, I think it is important that political debate be conducted in a manner is which all sides are able to present their viewpoint, and the reader can sort it all out. When members of one side of a debate presume to speak for the other side that detracts from the debate. And, when a poster states something that is false, and reacts to his falsehood being exposed by unloading a series of ad hominem attacks that creates a chilling effect on open and free debate.

[BigSkyBob]

I just lost a lot of respect for Herbert:

"I find that the Legislature followed the law, and the outcome, although not entirely satisfactory to everyone, is reasonable," Herbert said. "Let us remember, in the final analysis, our representatives are not chosen by lines drawn on a map; they are elected by the people of Utah.”

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705392874/Herbert-signs-redistricting-bills.html

So, under that logic, it seems like the way the lines are drawn shouldn't matter at all....

1) I gained respect for Herbert because he didn't selfishly try to duck a race against a sitting Democratic Congressman. This is in contrast to Ohio in 2000 where the Republican governor saved the seat of a Democrat Congressman just to avoid a race against him in 2002.

2) Herbert said the outcome was "reasonable." By that logic, it does matter where the lines are drawn.