Senate passes repeal of DADT with 65 votes

[Joe Biden 2020]

Here is my view of DADT

I happen to agree with this repeal. First let me say this, I'm a strong Christian, but I'm also politically-independent. I have a very weird view on this. First off, I HATE homosexuality, it goes against everything the Lord my God teaches. However, I have to agree with Hillary Clinton when she said "You don't have to be straight to shoot straight". I come at it from a defense point of view. We have lost many strategic and key people in our military because of DADT. For example, we have had several soldiers who could translate Arabic, the predominate language of the muslim terrorists, be discharged because of their sexual orientation.  I think this move actually does strengthen our defenses.  If you want to talk about our morality slipping, it flew out the window ages ago.  Plus, I don't think my God wants me to discriminate against anyone.  I am called to love people.  I love the sinner, but hate the sin.  Homosexuality is no more severe of a sin than telling a little white lie.  The consequences may be more severe, but in God's eyes, a sin is a sin is a sin and it doesn't matter whether you miss heaven by a half inch or 100,000 miles. The fact is, you still missed it.  If we banned homosexuality in the military, then to be fair, we'd have to ban everyone who has told a lie, which just about encompasses everybody.  So, that's my view on the situation.

This is not meant to offend anyone, just gives my views.

[Joe Biden 2020]

Here is my view of DADT

I happen to agree with this repeal. First let me say this, I'm a strong Christian, but I'm also politically-independent. I have a very weird view on this. First off, I HATE homosexuality, it goes against everything the Lord my God teaches. However, I have to agree with Hillary Clinton when she said "You don't have to be straight to shoot straight". I come at it from a defense point of view. We have lost many strategic and key people in our military because of DADT. For example, we have had several soldiers who could translate Arabic, the predominate language of the muslim terrorists, be discharged because of their sexual orientation.  I think this move actually does strengthen our defenses.  If you want to talk about our morality slipping, it flew out the window ages ago.  Plus, I don't think my God wants me to discriminate against anyone.  I am called to love people.  I love the sinner, but hate the sin.  Homosexuality is no more severe of a sin than telling a little white lie.  The consequences may be more severe, but in God's eyes, a sin is a sin is a sin and it doesn't matter whether you miss heaven by a half inch or 100,000 miles. The fact is, you still missed it.  If we banned homosexuality in the military, then to be fair, we'd have to ban everyone who has told a lie, which just about encompasses everybody.  So, that's my view on the situation.

This is not meant to offend anyone, just gives my views.

You go against everything I believe in quite frankly; in how you treat your working life, your family and your relationships. You are a model to the forum in how not to live your life.

Haha, Thanks for sharing!!  I know I do things a heck of a lot differently than most people, and I could stand to learn a few things in a few areas.  I'm not disappointed in myself or anything like that.  In fact, right now, I have a lot of joy in my life.  Joy unspeakable.

[Joe Biden 2020]

BushOklahoma is a bigoted fake Christian.

Haha!! Thank you, that gives me courage to keep on keepin' on!!!!

[Joe Biden 2020]

Here is my view of DADT

I happen to agree with this repeal. First let me say this, I'm a strong Christian, but I'm also politically-independent. I have a very weird view on this. First off, I HATE homosexuality, it goes against everything the Lord my God teaches. However, I have to agree with Hillary Clinton when she said "You don't have to be straight to shoot straight". I come at it from a defense point of view. We have lost many strategic and key people in our military because of DADT. For example, we have had several soldiers who could translate Arabic, the predominate language of the muslim terrorists, be discharged because of their sexual orientation.  I think this move actually does strengthen our defenses.  If you want to talk about our morality slipping, it flew out the window ages ago.  Plus, I don't think my God wants me to discriminate against anyone.  I am called to love people.  I love the sinner, but hate the sin.  Homosexuality is no more severe of a sin than telling a little white lie.  The consequences may be more severe, but in God's eyes, a sin is a sin is a sin and it doesn't matter whether you miss heaven by a half inch or 100,000 miles. The fact is, you still missed it.  If we banned homosexuality in the military, then to be fair, we'd have to ban everyone who has told a lie, which just about encompasses everybody.  So, that's my view on the situation.

This is not meant to offend anyone, just gives my views.

You go against everything I believe in quite frankly; in how you treat your working life, your family and your relationships. You are a model to the forum in how not to live your life.

Haha, Thanks for sharing!!  I know I do things a heck of a lot differently than most people, and I could stand to learn a few things in a few areas.  I'm not disappointed in myself or anything like that.  In fact, right now, I have a lot of joy in my life.  Joy unspeakable.

Did you even read what I wrote? You think you can stand on a high ground and say you 'HATE' homosexuality (and as it is in uncompromisable part of my being, by extension you are making claims against me as a person) and then throw in a 'haha' to someone calling you out on your own shambolic, ego driven greedy existance.

You are not a model of humanity Bushie; you are a sorry excuse for a man forever in a state of arrested development permanently attached to the tete of anyone around you for support and succour while being captivated by the shiny pennies of scammers and people who want to f-ck up your entire existance. And when things go wrong you fix on your innane grin and raise out your platitudes to an empty sky. And then have the gall to think you have the slighest clue, have the slightest iota of what human relationships in everything from sex to business are all about. You fail at just about everyone you forge or you jeopardise it for a quick path to marriage and sex or for a quick buck.

I don't give a gold plated, cherry flavoured f-ck what you think about anything you open your gullible mouth about.

DAMN! Got chilly in Scotland all of a sudden.

Brrrrrr...  It's chilly, and it's not because Heathrow is paralyzed!!!!

If he thinks that will phase me, he didn't even come close to succeeding!!!  Oh, wait, he did succeed! It makes me more determined and it reassures me I must be doing something right.

About my views, as I've stated several times before, I actually do support civil unions and really am ambivalent to gay marriage.  It doesn't affect me, and it doesn't weaken the God-ordained institution of marriage.  I do believe that I should not discriminate against gays.  They have just as much right to see their loved ones in the hospital, or be the durable power of attorney, serve in our Armed Forces (as the intention of this thread and repeal), or other things that heterosexuals have the privilege to do.  I don't agree with homosexuality and I do believe it's a choice, but I don't believe that choice should bar someone from living life as a normal human being.

And, back to alfeitch's reply to me, I specifically ask that no one report it or that no moderator infract it or edit it in any way.

[Joe Biden 2020]

To me there is a double standard going on here.  I can't say one thing against homosexuality without being accused of bigotry or homophobia, but people can say bad stuff about Christianity all day long and never be called out.  People can't say one thing to promote their faith without being called a "Bible-thumper" or other things.  People can promote their homosexuality all day long and everyone is so loving and caring toward that.  Every time I try to tell someone about my faith, others accuse me of trying to shove Christianity down their throat.

I'm not trying to be offensive or anything and if I am, has anyone given thought to how I felt when my faith was being trashed right after I lost my job?  But, it's OK to bash Bushie, because he's fun to trash and his faith is useless, but he doesn't dare say anything about homosexuality or we'll call him a bigot and a sorry excuse for a human.

[Joe Biden 2020]

To me there is a double standard going on here.  I can't say one thing against homosexuality without being accused of bigotry or homophobia, but people can say bad stuff about Christianity all day long and never be called out.  People can't say one thing to promote their faith without being called a "Bible-thumper" or other things.  People can promote their homosexuality all day long and everyone is so loving and caring toward that.  Every time I try to tell someone about my faith, others accuse me of trying to shove Christianity down their throat.

I'm not trying to be offensive or anything and if I am, has anyone given thought to how I felt when my faith was being trashed right after I lost my job?  But, it's OK to bash Bushie, because he's fun to trash and his faith is useless, but he doesn't dare say anything about homosexuality or we'll call him a bigot and a sorry excuse for a human.

The issue is when you (or anyone else for that matter) use religion as a way to make excuses for being a bigot and going off on hate rants.

You didn't answer my question.  I can't say anything bad about homosexuality and the Biblical perspective of that without being called a bigot?

[Joe Biden 2020]

To me there is a double standard going on here.  I can't say one thing against homosexuality without being accused of bigotry or homophobia, but people can say bad stuff about Christianity all day long and never be called out.  People can't say one thing to promote their faith without being called a "Bible-thumper" or other things.  People can promote their homosexuality all day long and everyone is so loving and caring toward that.  Every time I try to tell someone about my faith, others accuse me of trying to shove Christianity down their throat.

I'm not trying to be offensive or anything and if I am, has anyone given thought to how I felt when my faith was being trashed right after I lost my job?  But, it's OK to bash Bushie, because he's fun to trash and his faith is useless, but he doesn't dare say anything about homosexuality or we'll call him a bigot and a sorry excuse for a human.

The issue is when you (or anyone else for that matter) use religion as a way to make excuses for being a bigot and going off on hate rants.

You didn't answer my question.  I can't say anything bad about homosexuality and the Biblical perspective of that without being called a bigot?

If you make a bigoted remark its going to be classified as a bigoted remark, it doesn't matter if the reason is based off something biblical or some other reason.   If you make a bigoted remark you are going to be called a bigot.

It doesn't matter, because even if I get accused of bigotry doesn't make it true.  I am not a bigot and that label will never stick to me.

Now, the second part of the question, since I was obviously called a bigot for my views on homosexuality, did anyone give thought to how I felt when my religion was trashed just two short weeks ago?

Is it perfectly acceptable to trash religion, but definitely against all moral reasoning to say one thing against homosexuality?

[Joe Biden 2020]

To me there is a double standard going on here.  I can't say one thing against homosexuality without being accused of bigotry or homophobia, but people can say bad stuff about Christianity all day long and never be called out.  People can't say one thing to promote their faith without being called a "Bible-thumper" or other things.  People can promote their homosexuality all day long and everyone is so loving and caring toward that.  Every time I try to tell someone about my faith, others accuse me of trying to shove Christianity down their throat.

I'm not trying to be offensive or anything and if I am, has anyone given thought to how I felt when my faith was being trashed right after I lost my job?  But, it's OK to bash Bushie, because he's fun to trash and his faith is useless, but he doesn't dare say anything about homosexuality or we'll call him a bigot and a sorry excuse for a human.

The issue is when you (or anyone else for that matter) use religion as a way to make excuses for being a bigot and going off on hate rants.

You didn't answer my question.  I can't say anything bad about homosexuality and the Biblical perspective of that without being called a bigot?

If you make a bigoted remark its going to be classified as a bigoted remark, it doesn't matter if the reason is based off something biblical or some other reason.   If you make a bigoted remark you are going to be called a bigot.

It doesn't matter, because even if I get accused of bigotry doesn't make it true.  I am not a bigot and that label will never stick to me.

Now, the second part of the question, since I was obviously called a bigot for my views on homosexuality, did anyone give thought to how I felt when my religion was trashed just two short weeks ago?

Is it perfectly acceptable to trash religion, but definitely against all moral reasoning to say one thing against homosexuality?

Bushie, the comments you made were flat out bigoted.  Plain and simple, you made very bigoted remarks and used religion as a way to explain why that venom you spewed was ok.

Also again I don't think anyone was trashing your religion.  You were being criticized for letting your religious beliefs get in the way of an actual and rationale thought process and decision making.

How was it bigoted?  I was just explaining my views on the legislation, which I am in favor of, by the way.  Yet, I called homosexuality a sin, which is what the Bible calls it, and I was called a bigot.  Then, I followed it up with my real views on the matter and it went in one ear and right out the other.

[Joe Biden 2020]

To me there is a double standard going on here.  I can't say one thing against homosexuality without being accused of bigotry or homophobia, but people can say bad stuff about Christianity all day long and never be called out.  People can't say one thing to promote their faith without being called a "Bible-thumper" or other things.  People can promote their homosexuality all day long and everyone is so loving and caring toward that.  Every time I try to tell someone about my faith, others accuse me of trying to shove Christianity down their throat.

I'm not trying to be offensive or anything and if I am, has anyone given thought to how I felt when my faith was being trashed right after I lost my job?  But, it's OK to bash Bushie, because he's fun to trash and his faith is useless, but he doesn't dare say anything about homosexuality or we'll call him a bigot and a sorry excuse for a human.

The issue is when you (or anyone else for that matter) use religion as a way to make excuses for being a bigot and going off on hate rants.

You didn't answer my question.  I can't say anything bad about homosexuality and the Biblical perspective of that without being called a bigot?

If you make a bigoted remark its going to be classified as a bigoted remark, it doesn't matter if the reason is based off something biblical or some other reason.   If you make a bigoted remark you are going to be called a bigot.

It doesn't matter, because even if I get accused of bigotry doesn't make it true.  I am not a bigot and that label will never stick to me.

Now, the second part of the question, since I was obviously called a bigot for my views on homosexuality, did anyone give thought to how I felt when my religion was trashed just two short weeks ago?

Is it perfectly acceptable to trash religion, but definitely against all moral reasoning to say one thing against homosexuality?

Bushie, the comments you made were flat out bigoted.  Plain and simple, you made very bigoted remarks and used religion as a way to explain why that venom you spewed was ok.

Also again I don't think anyone was trashing your religion.  You were being criticized for letting your religious beliefs get in the way of an actual and rationale thought process and decision making.

How was it bigoted?  I was just explaining my views on the legislation, which I am in favor of, by the way.  Yet, I called homosexuality a sin, which is what the Bible calls it, and I was called a bigot.  Then, I followed it up with my real views on the matter and it went in one ear and right out the other.

Saying you hate homosexuality and going off on that rant you did is pretty bigoted.   

Okay, whatever.  Say what you wish, but it's not true.

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Absolutely not!!! I never said that, you're putting words in my mouth.

So, another question.  If I say I hate homosexuality, am I a bigot?  Also, there were no hateful intentions in that post.  If there were, why would I follow it up with my real views?

[Joe Biden 2020]

To me there is a double standard going on here.  I can't say one thing against homosexuality without being accused of bigotry or homophobia, but people can say bad stuff about Christianity all day long and never be called out.  People can't say one thing to promote their faith without being called a "Bible-thumper" or other things.  People can promote their homosexuality all day long and everyone is so loving and caring toward that.  Every time I try to tell someone about my faith, others accuse me of trying to shove Christianity down their throat.

I'm not trying to be offensive or anything and if I am, has anyone given thought to how I felt when my faith was being trashed right after I lost my job?  But, it's OK to bash Bushie, because he's fun to trash and his faith is useless, but he doesn't dare say anything about homosexuality or we'll call him a bigot and a sorry excuse for a human.

The issue is when you (or anyone else for that matter) use religion as a way to make excuses for being a bigot and going off on hate rants.

You didn't answer my question.  I can't say anything bad about homosexuality and the Biblical perspective of that without being called a bigot?

If you make a bigoted remark its going to be classified as a bigoted remark, it doesn't matter if the reason is based off something biblical or some other reason.   If you make a bigoted remark you are going to be called a bigot.

It doesn't matter, because even if I get accused of bigotry doesn't make it true.  I am not a bigot and that label will never stick to me.

Now, the second part of the question, since I was obviously called a bigot for my views on homosexuality, did anyone give thought to how I felt when my religion was trashed just two short weeks ago?

Is it perfectly acceptable to trash religion, but definitely against all moral reasoning to say one thing against homosexuality?

Bushie, the comments you made were flat out bigoted.  Plain and simple, you made very bigoted remarks and used religion as a way to explain why that venom you spewed was ok.

Also again I don't think anyone was trashing your religion.  You were being criticized for letting your religious beliefs get in the way of an actual and rationale thought process and decision making.

How was it bigoted?  I was just explaining my views on the legislation, which I am in favor of, by the way.  Yet, I called homosexuality a sin, which is what the Bible calls it, and I was called a bigot.  Then, I followed it up with my real views on the matter and it went in one ear and right out the other.

Saying you hate homosexuality and going off on that rant you did is pretty bigoted.  

Okay, whatever.  Say what you wish, but it's not true.

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Absolutely not!!! I never said that, you're putting words in my mouth.

So, another question.  If I say I hate homosexuality, am I a bigot?  Also, there were no hateful intentions in that post.  If there were, why would I follow it up with my real views?

Yes, if you say if you hate homosexuality you are a bigot.

I wasn't putting words in your mouth, I was simply asking you a question.  You used the bible to justify your hate for homosexuality and the bible says homosexuals should be put to death

Then, in that case, I am proud to be a bigot.

[Joe Biden 2020]

To me there is a double standard going on here.  I can't say one thing against homosexuality without being accused of bigotry or homophobia, but people can say bad stuff about Christianity all day long and never be called out.  People can't say one thing to promote their faith without being called a "Bible-thumper" or other things.  People can promote their homosexuality all day long and everyone is so loving and caring toward that.  Every time I try to tell someone about my faith, others accuse me of trying to shove Christianity down their throat.

I'm not trying to be offensive or anything and if I am, has anyone given thought to how I felt when my faith was being trashed right after I lost my job?  But, it's OK to bash Bushie, because he's fun to trash and his faith is useless, but he doesn't dare say anything about homosexuality or we'll call him a bigot and a sorry excuse for a human.

The issue is when you (or anyone else for that matter) use religion as a way to make excuses for being a bigot and going off on hate rants.

You didn't answer my question.  I can't say anything bad about homosexuality and the Biblical perspective of that without being called a bigot?

If you make a bigoted remark its going to be classified as a bigoted remark, it doesn't matter if the reason is based off something biblical or some other reason.   If you make a bigoted remark you are going to be called a bigot.

It doesn't matter, because even if I get accused of bigotry doesn't make it true.  I am not a bigot and that label will never stick to me.

Now, the second part of the question, since I was obviously called a bigot for my views on homosexuality, did anyone give thought to how I felt when my religion was trashed just two short weeks ago?

Is it perfectly acceptable to trash religion, but definitely against all moral reasoning to say one thing against homosexuality?

Bushie, the comments you made were flat out bigoted.  Plain and simple, you made very bigoted remarks and used religion as a way to explain why that venom you spewed was ok.

Also again I don't think anyone was trashing your religion.  You were being criticized for letting your religious beliefs get in the way of an actual and rationale thought process and decision making.

How was it bigoted?  I was just explaining my views on the legislation, which I am in favor of, by the way.  Yet, I called homosexuality a sin, which is what the Bible calls it, and I was called a bigot.  Then, I followed it up with my real views on the matter and it went in one ear and right out the other.

Saying you hate homosexuality and going off on that rant you did is pretty bigoted.  

Okay, whatever.  Say what you wish, but it's not true.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Absolutely not!!! I never said that, you're putting words in my mouth.

So, another question.  If I say I hate homosexuality, am I a bigot?  Also, there were no hateful intentions in that post.  If there were, why would I follow it up with my real views?

Yes, if you say if you hate homosexuality you are a bigot.

I wasn't putting words in your mouth, I was simply asking you a question.  You used the bible to justify your hate for homosexuality and the bible says homosexuals should be put to death

Mind you, I'm not trying to start anything or be mean about anything, I just wanted to get a feel for how liberals actually think.  Personally, I don't have that many problems with homosexuality and if you'll read my follow-up, it explains it.  I don't really "hate" homosexuality, I don't care for it, but I don't hate it with a passion.  I think it's unbiblical, but I'm not a hard-nosed conservative on that issue, and as was pointed out earlier, my views are liberal compared to most of Oklahoma.  I have good friends who are/were homosexuals, take jamespol for instance.  He and I have been friends for 4 1/2 years, and I have never had a problem with his sexual orientation.  I've had friends even here in Oklahoma, even working with some, and I've had absolutely no problems with them or about them.  I saw them as my co-workers, not as "that fag over there".  In fact, when someone around me bashes the lifestyle, I refrain from saying anything.  Sometimes I will speak my mind, which brings on attacks from the right, as well.

To afleitch and my other gay forum brothers, I really respect you and how you've conducted yourself.  I apologize for any hurtful comments I made toward you.  They were not intentional.  I was reacting to my views on the legislation and just got a little carried away with it.

[Joe Biden 2020]

Bushie, I'm on record here saying that you weren't being a hateful person, but also asking why you say you "HATE" homosexuality in one line and then say that a sin is a sin, homosexuality is equivalent to a white lie. I was wondering why, then, you view homosexuality as meriting HATE which you presumably don't feel in your bones about other sins.

I hate every sin there is.  I hate lies, I hate adultery, I hate pornography, I hate gossip.

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The Bible is full of verses that forbid homosexuality.

Leviticus 18:22
Matthew 19:4-6
Romans 1:26-27
1 Corinthians 6:9
1 Timothy 1:10

I believe the Bible is 100% inerrant, authored by God and penned by 40 writers, and none of it is out of date.

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If you look at the verses I mentioned above it mentions a whole array of sins, not just homosexuality.

These are not my words, they are God's Words.

[Joe Biden 2020]

I'm going to speak no more of this matter, because I do not want to ruffle any more feathers right before Christmas.  You believe what you believe, and let me believe what I believe.

After I get home, I do not want to revisit this particular issue.  Instead, My forum focus will be my update thread and the 2012 campaign.