US House Redistricting: Washington

[muon2]

The consensus seems to be that the Snoqualmie Pass link is undesirable, but so is a split of Yakima city. The discussion about using US 12 as a connection led me an idea. One can keep Yakima intact and connect it to Vancouver by way of US 12 and I 5. It does put Longview and Kelso in two different districts, but that doesn't seem as bad as some other alternatives.

[Verily]

I don't think keeping the city of Yakima together is worth splitting up the Olympic Peninsula, Longview-Kelso and Thurston County/whatever is going on near Centralia.

[Verily]

.

As for why this is different from the Snoqualmie Pass--reasonableness. The areas on either side of Snoqualmie Pass have nothing in common with one another, while Lewis County, Clark County and Yakima County are fairly similar.

Other way around.  Kittitas County has a significant amount of King County commuters and students from Western Washington.  There is very little in common with SW Washington and the Yakima Valley.  

Look at commuter #s, traffic #s, elevation: Snoqualmie Pass makes by far the most sense.

No, they don't. We established this before. Estimates of commute time found not a single person in Cle Elum, let alone Ellensburg or Wenatchee, who commuted to Bellevue/Redmond.

Kittitas is very rural, being well known for such things as hay and rodeo. Google Maps shows a small town surrounded by pastures and farmland. There are essentially no farms at all on the King County side of Snoqualmie Pass. It certainly has more in common with the agricultural Tri-Cities and Yakima than it does with high-tech Seattle suburbs.

[muon2]

I don't think keeping the city of Yakima together is worth splitting up the Olympic Peninsula, Longview-Kelso and Thurston County/whatever is going on near Centralia.

I didn't spend much time on the Olympic Peninsula, so that would be easy to adjust as would whether Centralia was with Olympia or not. I was just working on the shape of CD 3 to try to keep Yakima intact.

I'd be curious as to the local views on the merits of splitting Longview from Kelso as a trade for keeping Yakima whole.

[Sounder]

^^^

Sorry Sounder.  Especially in light of the Yakima City split, I might buy the I-90 connection if it were cleaner.  But I've tried, and it seems much dirtier.  Not only are the splits ugly, but there are also a lot of them.

How is it ugly?  

 Look at where the people actually live, look at the geography, look at the roads.   The Yakima split is far uglier.   My above scenario creates clean districts.  The new 10th centered around Snoqualmie Pass and Stevens Pass makes a lot of sense.   The entire district is foothills (Issaquah Alps, Sammamish Plateau, East Hill), foothill valleys (Snoqualmie Valley, Skykomish Valley, Wenatchee Valley, Kittitas Valley and the three passes that link them), and mountains.  

Meanwhile a Yakima split puts together significant population centers with zero connections (way greater number of commuters over Snoqualmie Pass), has a vast area of nothingness in between (unlike the Central Cascade scenario with linear settlements lining the heavily traversed central Cascade passes), linked by lower quality, lesser traversed transportation infrastructure (can take Amtrak to Leavenworth and Wenatchee on top of the two major mountain passes).  That's ugly.  

[Sounder]

The consensus seems to be that the Snoqualmie Pass link is undesirable,[/img]

There may be a consensus, but why do people believe this?  That data screams otherwise.  Other than historical precedence when the state had way less districts, there is no reason to split up the Yakima Valley.  Kittitas County is heavily dependent on Western Washington.   Wenatchee is a messier split, but it isn't naturally linked much to anything tucked into that pocket around the Columbia River.  Wenatchee has to go somewhere. 

How many of you folks have driven these roads?  In winter?  Snoqualmie Pass is the easiest link between east and west in Washington.  Interstate 84 in Oregon is #2.  Stevens Pass #3.  A central Cascade district can take advantage of both #1 and #3, plus would have the south and west links into Wenatchee. 

[Sounder]

^^^



Index and Leavenworth are kind of cherrypicking the most similar East/West sides of that district.  It's more like Google Bellevue and then East Wenatchee...

Google is in the 1st and 7th.  East Wenatchee is attracting (Seattle suburban) Eastsiders.  Yahoo and Microsoft have both set up their massive data centers nearby to take advantage of cheap hydro electric power.  

[Sounder]

No, they don't. We established this before. Estimates of commute time found not a single person in Cle Elum, let alone Ellensburg or Wenatchee, who commuted to Bellevue/Redmond.

1200 people a day commuted to King County from Kittitas County in 2000.  That is a significant number for a small county with almost a third of its population students.   

What's the number between Yakima County and Clark?  Zero?   1200>>>>>>>>0  Simple math. 

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The only reason for the hay industry is all of those empty shipping containers heading west back through the ports of Seattle and Tacoma.  What's the difference between forest land and hay land, other than frequency of harvest?  Also, there is a rodeo in Roy.

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Not familiar  with Snoqualmie Valley I guess.  Pike Place market has to get is fine local produce from somewhere.   Ever hear of Carnation Farms?  If not, you must have heard of the Carnation brand that was born there.  There is farmland  right outside of Everett, WA and all the way up the Snohomish Valley.  Monroe fed the northern transcontinental railroad. 

[Sounder]

I didn't spend much time on the Olympic Peninsula, so that would be easy to adjust as would whether Centralia was with Olympia or not. I was just working on the shape of CD 3 to try to keep Yakima intact.

I'd be curious as to the local views on the merits of splitting Longview from Kelso as a trade for keeping Yakima whole.

You only keep the northern tip of Kitsap in your scenario, which may have to happen anyway (Inslee, ferry link).

As for the splits, Olympia and Centralia have no reason to be together.  SW Thurston is very Centralia centric, so that can be split off too.  Splitting Olympia and Lacey also makes sense as well.  Lacey is predominately military and spill over Central Puget Sound sprawl and is more Tacoma/Seattle centric.  As is Yelm and SE Thurston County.   Olympia and is older built, and is more SW Washington/Olympic Peninsula/Pacific Coast centric.  Tumwater too, except its building. 

Politically, I'd assume Longview-Kelso would want to stay united. 

[muon2]

I didn't spend much time on the Olympic Peninsula, so that would be easy to adjust as would whether Centralia was with Olympia or not. I was just working on the shape of CD 3 to try to keep Yakima intact.

I'd be curious as to the local views on the merits of splitting Longview from Kelso as a trade for keeping Yakima whole.

You only keep the northern tip of Kitsap in your scenario, which may have to happen anyway (Inslee, ferry link).

As for the splits, Olympia and Centralia have no reason to be together.  SW Thurston is very Centralia centric, so that can be split off too.  Splitting Olympia and Lacey also makes sense as well.  Lacey is predominately military and spill over Central Puget Sound sprawl and is more Tacoma/Seattle centric.  As is Yelm and SE Thurston County.   Olympia and is older built, and is more SW Washington/Olympic Peninsula/Pacific Coast centric.  Tumwater too, except its building. 

Politically, I'd assume Longview-Kelso would want to stay united. 

But what if it's that split or Yakima city split?

[Sbane]

^^^



Index and Leavenworth are kind of cherrypicking the most similar East/West sides of that district.  It's more like Google Bellevue and then East Wenatchee...

Google is in the 1st and 7th.  East Wenatchee is attracting (Seattle suburban) Eastsiders.  Yahoo and Microsoft have both set up their massive data centers nearby to take advantage of cheap hydro electric power.   

I am sorry, but the notion that people commute over the Snoqualmie pass is ridiculous. The growth over the mountains may be driven by west siders, but they aren't commuting over the cascades every morning.

[jimrtex]

I am sorry, but the notion that people commute over the Snoqualmie pass is ridiculous. The growth over the mountains may be driven by west siders, but they aren't commuting over the cascades every morning.

There are traffic cameras on the pass.  It's your job to check it out tomorrow morning and afternoon.

[minionofmidas]

To put the cat among the pigeons, a minimum change map (with the second's eastern boundary deemed impassable) suggests an unchanged boundary between the third and fourth, and linking Ellensburg and Wenatchee to Olympia via East Pierce.

[CultureKing]

To put the cat among the pigeons, a minimum change map (with the second's eastern boundary deemed impassable) suggests an unchanged boundary between the third and fourth, and linking Ellensburg and Wenatchee to Olympia via East Pierce.

Would that mean highway 402 is the connection? Which happens to be closed for several months each year... Once again while I know it doesn't sound as interesting/fun the most likely scenario is that any east/west district will be via the Columbia.

[minionofmidas]

It still has Snoqualmie Pass... it just doesn't have all that many King County people.

I drew it but lost the map.

[Sbane]

I am sorry, but the notion that people commute over the Snoqualmie pass is ridiculous. The growth over the mountains may be driven by west siders, but they aren't commuting over the cascades every morning.

There are traffic cameras on the pass.  It's your job to check it out tomorrow morning and afternoon.

Past the King county line presumably?

[minionofmidas]

Recreated it. Shift the 1st and 2nd surplusses to the 8th, the 6th and 7th surplusses to the 9th, the 5th surplus to the 4th, then create the 10th from the 3rd, 4th, 8th and 9th.

[Fuzzybigfoot]

I added an Atlas-style 1980s CD map of Washington to the wiki, if anyone is curious. I can't find the original I drew it based off of, though... I also added Dave's 1990s and 2000s maps (with the minor edit of properly placing Tacoma in the 6th on the 90s edition).

Here's the 1970's version I drew up, if you want it. 

[RI]

Recreated it. Shift the 1st and 2nd surplusses to the 8th, the 6th and 7th surplusses to the 9th, the 5th surplus to the 4th, then create the 10th from the 3rd, 4th, 8th and 9th.

Eww..

[Alcon]

Sounder, dude, can you use the Edit function?  Otherwise I reply to one of your posts, and realize there's five more than were posted shortly after.  Thanks

I'm not sure what you mean by "Google is in the 1st and 7th"?  East Bellevue is in the 1st and East Wenatchee is somehow suddenly in the Seattle district?  what?

Besides that, I don't know what to say.  If you really feel that the Snoqualmie Pass area has more socioeconomic similarity to East King County (including Bellevue) than the Columbia River connection, that's fine.  I guess we'll find out on redistricting what the commission thinks.

An Olympia-North Grant County district.  Oy vey -- I think we're getting a little exotic here.  I'm working on my own version (I think it may end up superficially similar to bgwah's.)

[jimrtex]

I am sorry, but the notion that people commute over the  is ridiculous. The growth over the mountains may be driven by west siders, but they aren't commuting over the cascades every morning.

There are traffic cameras on the pass.  It's your job to check it out tomorrow morning and afternoon.

Past the King county line presumably?

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/traffic/passes/camera.aspx

[Sbane]

I am sorry, but the notion that people commute over the  is ridiculous. The growth over the mountains may be driven by west siders, but they aren't commuting over the cascades every morning.

There are traffic cameras on the pass.  It's your job to check it out tomorrow morning and afternoon.

Past the King county line presumably?

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/traffic/passes/camera.aspx

LOL the road is entirely empty (note the time stamp on this post). One hell of a commute Jim.

[RI]

Most people that I've seen when I've gone over the pass are either in semis or going on trips. Then again, I've never gone over it in the early morning, though I have around rush hour in the evening before. There's a few more cars, but its usually pretty sparse (barring construction or something).

[minionofmidas]

Yeah, all seven vehicles visible at the seven cameras right now are utility vehicles, four of them large trucks.

[Alcon]

My friend who was pulling an all-nighter watched it periodically from 6 to 8 for me, and said she mostly saw big trucks.