US House Redistricting: New York

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

More then liberal jews hate liberal christians they hate Conservative and even more Orthodox Jews.

This is, on several levels, one of the strangest sentences I've ever read, and I study Japanese serial fiction from the 1920s.

edited now

No, it wasn't semantic clarity that the sentence lacked.

I'll make this simple
Liberal jews hate jews who vote Republican
Liberal jews hate right wing Christians
Liberal jews hate Orthodox jews more then they hate other jews who vote Republican .
Liberal jews hate Orthodox jews more then they hate right wing Christians.

I said the problem wasn't one of clarity.

[NY Jew]

Again, I'm really not sure it's because you guys are Jewish. It sounds more like it's because you lean conservative. Do you really think it would be any different if you were some other religion/ethnicity with the same political leanings?

yes the dems plan doesn't break up SI (if they wanted to gerrymander strictly on partisan lines Grimm wouldn't have a chance)

besides how would this line come across "I'm not racist but I just divided up black neighborhoods at unprecedented rates because they vote democrat"

Staten Island was kept whole for the same reason the Republicans in PA kept Bucks County whole: for whatever reason, there's a tradition that this one area has to be all together, and you can gerrymander the heck out of the rest of the map but not there.

Also, "Flatbush" is a pretty huge area, probably at least a dozen neighborhoods many of which have their own name to begin with- and most of it is African-American, not Orthodox.  I'd consider the Orthodox areas to be separate neighborhoods south and east of Flatbush.  I mean, I guess you could consider Midwood to be part of Flatbush, okay.  Unite all of "Flatbush" in one Congressional district- and it mostly is so already- and I guarantee you Yvette Clarke will be its representative.

in regards to point 1 SI could also be connected with Lower Manhattan like it used to be

in regards to point 2 the Orthodox Jewish community calls anywhere from Ave H to U between McDonald and Flatbush Ave (except for Marine Park and a few small areas) Flatbush.

In fact if you would ask the avg person (under a certain age) about most of the neighborhoods names (Manhattan Terrace, Madison ext. in fact most never heard of Gravesend) you see on a map most would have no clue where you are talking about unless they happen to know a Young Israel that has that name.  

[they don't love you like i love you]

Mind you by the way I don't have a problem carving up Borough Park either since it's basically the most fascist place in America. A place that votes similar to Iraqi "elections" under Saddam Hussein that is mostly populated by zealots who salivate over murdered Palestinian children and want to massacre Iranians? Terrible terrible place. And that's not even getting started on their views on women...

[NY Jew]

Once again, NY-9 is hardly a Tel Aviv West or whatever as Al keeps pointing out. If there even is a "Jewish district" in NYC it'd be Nadler's.

And I suspect Borough Park's carving is a deliberate attempt to prevent someone like Dov Hikind getting the say over who its representative is, something that wouldn't sit well with either party.

have you ever been to Brooklyn  If I would unite the Jewish communities in Southern Brooklyn there would probably be 350,000 Jews there.  Southern Brooklyn probably has more synagogues then Tel Aviv.  Flatbush (colloquially) has around the same number of Jews that Borough Park (colloquially) has and Turner now represents more then a 3rd of them.

[NY Jew]

Mind you by the way I don't have a problem carving up Borough Park either since it's basically the most fascist place in America. A place that votes similar to Iraqi "elections" under Saddam Hussein that is mostly populated by zealots who salivate over murdered Palestinian children and want to massacre Iranians? Terrible terrible place. And that's not even getting started on their views on women...

you don't know the first thing about Borough Park.
though you probably would fit in perfectly in Berlin circa 1942.

[they don't love you like i love you]

Mind you by the way I don't have a problem carving up Borough Park either since it's basically the most fascist place in America. A place that votes similar to Iraqi "elections" under Saddam Hussein that is mostly populated by zealots who salivate over murdered Palestinian children and want to massacre Iranians? Terrible terrible place. And that's not even getting started on their views on women...

you don't know the first thing about Borough Park.
though you probably would fit in perfectly in Berlin circa 1942.

I don't have a problem with Jews. I have a problem with cultists who admire people like Meir Kahane and Baruch Goldstein. Wasn't Goldstein actually from Borough Park?

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

Mind you by the way I don't have a problem carving up Borough Park either since it's basically the most fascist place in America. A place that votes similar to Iraqi "elections" under Saddam Hussein that is mostly populated by zealots who salivate over murdered Palestinian children and want to massacre Iranians? Terrible terrible place. And that's not even getting started on their views on women...

you don't know the first thing about Borough Park.
though you probably would fit in perfectly in Berlin circa 1942.

I don't have a problem with Jews. I have a problem with cultists who admire people like Meir Kahane and Baruch Goldstein. Wasn't Goldstein actually from Borough Park?

Kahane and Goldstein were both from Brooklyn anyway. Not sure of the neighborhoods.

Coincidentally a friend of mine, who has traveled to and fro between Boston and Jerusalem quite a bit, was just ranting about Kahanism the other day. Seriously, uh, weird stuff.

[NY Jew]

Mind you by the way I don't have a problem carving up Borough Park either since it's basically the most fascist place in America. A place that votes similar to Iraqi "elections" under Saddam Hussein that is mostly populated by zealots who salivate over murdered Palestinian children and want to massacre Iranians? Terrible terrible place. And that's not even getting started on their views on women...

you don't know the first thing about Borough Park.
though you probably would fit in perfectly in Berlin circa 1942.

I don't have a problem with Jews. I have a problem with cultists who admire people like Meir Kahane and Baruch Goldstein.

you clearly don't know the first thing about Borough Park (Borough Park is probably the most diverse neighborhood in NYC if you base it country of Origin and financial status).  Borough Park has in addition to Chasidiem has Litvaks, Yekkies, Sfardiem (groups which can be further subdivided).  


In regards to Zionism Borough Park is anything but monolithic BP has a huge Satmar population amongst other orthodox anti Zionist (the type that, unlike you aren't anti Semites who the planet would be better off with out) groups.  In fact the groups you blasted for being anti woman are also more likely to be anti Zionist.

I guess you want to make America Judenrein as Sweden was until 1718.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

Your explanation was good up until the ridiculous ad hominem.

BRTD, he actually is right that Orthodox Jews are far from monolithic. Even if some of the differences seem arcane to Gentiles they're very tempting to miss and very rewarding not to.

[NY Jew]

Your explanation was good up until the ridiculous and paranoid ad hominem.

BRTD, he actually is right that Orthodox Jews are far from monolithic. Even if some of the differences seem arcane to Gentiles they're very tempting to miss and very rewarding not to.

and calling BP the most fascist part of the country (while clearly knowing nothing about it) is not anti semtic??

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

Your explanation was good up until the ridiculous and paranoid ad hominem.

BRTD, he actually is right that Orthodox Jews are far from monolithic. Even if some of the differences seem arcane to Gentiles they're very tempting to miss and very rewarding not to.

and calling BP the most fascist part of the country (while clearly knowing nothing about it) is not anti semtic??

Those question marks are unnecessary, it was certainly ignorant and I'm glad you explained some of the distinctions to him, and it still doesn't mean that one should use ridiculous ad hominems just because other people are.

[they don't love you like i love you]

I'm talking about how they vote. That the creepy monolithicism.

Dov Hikind runs the BP political machine. It's well known that he is an open supporter of Kahane, in addition to being a homophobic, racist and anti-Christian bigot (he led protests against The Passion of the Christ claiming it to be an anti-Semitic film, lol.)

What happens to natives of BP who go on to accept Christ? I have a feeling they are probably completely ostracized and shunned.

Your explanation was good up until the ridiculous and paranoid ad hominem.

BRTD, he actually is right that Orthodox Jews are far from monolithic. Even if some of the differences seem arcane to Gentiles they're very tempting to miss and very rewarding not to.

and calling BP the most fascist part of the country (while clearly knowing nothing about it) is not anti semtic??

Those question marks are unnecessary, it was certainly ignorant and I'm glad you explained some of the distinctions to him, and it still doesn't mean that one should use ridiculous ad hominems just because other people are.

What the hell is Kahanism if not fascism? It's Zionist ultra-nationalism and is basically what parties like the British National Party and Front Nationale promote if you change the targets of the rhetoric. Hell it's so extreme even Israel banned it.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

What the hell is Kahanism if not fascism? It's Zionist ultra-nationalism and is basically what parties like the British National Party and Front Nationale promote if you change the targets of the rhetoric. Hell it's so extreme even Israel banned it.

Borough Park has, as you said, creepy machinist Kahanist tendencies but it's not totally defined culturally by that. There are things to be admired in the culture there in the senses in which it does not directly intersect with Dov Hikind and his amazing sugoi majokko political machine. It's just that Dov Hikind and his amazing sugoi majokko political machine are...well, very there.

[NY Jew]

Your explanation was good up until the ridiculous and paranoid ad hominem.

BRTD, he actually is right that Orthodox Jews are far from monolithic. Even if some of the differences seem arcane to Gentiles they're very tempting to miss and very rewarding not to.

and calling BP the most fascist part of the country (while clearly knowing nothing about it) is not anti semtic??

Those question marks are unnecessary, it was certainly ignorant and I'm glad you explained some of the distinctions to him, and it still doesn't mean that one should use ridiculous ad hominems just because other people are.

first of all before I responded the way I did on this post I asked someone (something I don't think I ever did before responding on a website) if they agreed with me that the comment in question was anti semetic.   Jews have been through way to much for me just to lie over and pretend that anti semitisim is not anti semitisim.  And as long as I am in a free country (though that seems to be going fast) I will call anti semites out for being anti semites.

just as a side point Baruch Goldstein went to one of the (if no the) most left wing (religious wise) "Yeshivas" in Brooklyn (Now it is much more right wing but is still very left wing)

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

All right. Since you're Jewish and I'm only vaguely culturally Jewish through one grandparent (not my maternal grandmother), I'll respect that you probably are greater attuned to anti-Semitic language than I am. But I still don't think his opinion of the political machine in Borough Park is anti-Semitic in character. I assume you disagree.

I agree with the point that it seems you're making in your second paragraph in that I doubt that the various things the matter with Baruch Goldstein and Meir Kahane can be attributed in any sense to their education, which from what I know of Jewish education in this country seems to have been pretty anodyne.

[traininthedistance]

in regards to point 1 SI could also be connected with Lower Manhattan like it used to be

in regards to point 2 the Orthodox Jewish community calls anywhere from Ave H to U between McDonald and Flatbush Ave (except for Marine Park and a few small areas) Flatbush.

In fact if you would ask the avg person (under a certain age) about most of the neighborhoods names (Manhattan Terrace, Madison ext. in fact most never heard of Gravesend) you see on a map most would have no clue where you are talking about unless they happen to know a Young Israel that has that name.  

Yeah, if I was doing a partisan gerrymander without regard for incumbents I'd definitely link SI and Manhattan; I get the sense Nadler would actually prefer to have south Brookyn instead.

I'd definitely refer to the area you're describing as mostly Midwood with a bit of Gravesend and Marine Park as well.  I guess you can call that Flatbush if you want, but when I hear Flatbush I definitely think of the areas north of that: the area around Brooklyn College, South Midwood (which is confusingly enough north of Midwood proper), Ditmas Park, Prospect Park South, and a bunch more neighborhoods on the other side of Flatbush Ave. I'm less familiar with.  Kensington is probably too far west to count.

I'll make this simple
Liberal jews hate jews who vote Republican
Liberal jews hate right wing Christians
Liberal jews hate Orthodox jews more then they hate other jews who vote Republican .
Liberal jews hate Orthodox jews more then they hate right wing Christians.

This is so inaccurate I don't know where to begin.  Except to say that my SO is a liberal Jew (who coincidentally lives in what's actually Flatbush) and she certainly does not "hate" any of the groups you listed.  Though right wing Christians do scare her sometimes.

(he led protests against The Passion of the Christ claiming it to be an anti-Semitic film, lol.)

I don't agree with Hikind on much... but he's right on this one.  The Passion of the Christ was at least bordering on anti-Semitic, if not outright so.

[NY Jew]

this post has so many flaws in it)

I'm talking about how they vote. That the creepy monolithicism.

Dov Hikind runs the BP political machine. It's well known that he is an open supporter of Kahane, in addition to being a homophobic, racist and anti-Christian bigot (he led protests against The Passion of the Christ claiming it to be an anti-Semitic film, lol.)

Dov Hikind endorsed Kevin Parker over Simcha Felder in the 2008 primary in Hikind's own district they voted for Felder 3,461-173 over Kevin Parker Hikind's candidate (52 votes for the 3rd person in the race).  Some machine

The BP vote is based on many different types of jews voting based on their interest and values that more often then not agree with each other.[/quote]

What happens to natives of BP who go on to accept Christ? I have a feeling they are probably completely ostracized and shunned.

so I guess you combine both types of antisemitism old and new.

Your explanation was good up until the ridiculous and paranoid ad hominem.

BRTD, he actually is right that Orthodox Jews are far from monolithic. Even if some of the differences seem arcane to Gentiles they're very tempting to miss and very rewarding not to.

and calling BP the most fascist part of the country (while clearly knowing nothing about it) is not anti semtic??

Those question marks are unnecessary, it was certainly ignorant and I'm glad you explained some of the distinctions to him, and it still doesn't mean that one should use ridiculous ad hominems just because other people are.

What the hell is Kahanism if not fascism? It's Zionist ultra-nationalism and is basically what parties like the British National Party and Front Nationale promote if you change the targets of the rhetoric. Hell it's so extreme even Israel banned it.

I'm not going to debate a antismeite about Kahana, but understand most Jews in BP are not followers of Meyer Kahana.

[NY Jew]

I'll make this simple
Liberal jews hate jews who vote Republican
Liberal jews hate right wing Christians
Liberal jews hate Orthodox jews more then they hate other jews who vote Republican .
Liberal jews hate Orthodox jews more then they hate right wing Christians.

This is so inaccurate I don't know where to begin.  Except to say that my SO is a liberal Jew (who coincidentally lives in what's actually Flatbush) and she certainly does not "hate" any of the groups you listed.  Though right wing Christians do scare her sometimes.

This is a generalization and therefore doesn't apply to all liberal jews.  I'll give you an example of what I mean.  In NYC the people most likely to give Orthodox Jews trouble about keeping shabbos (leaving early on friday) and Kosher are almost always liberal jews despite the fact that they are minority of all jews in NYC (in 2002 Orthodox Jews and Russians were over 50% of the city and the Orthodox community has grown since then) and jews are less then 1/8th of the city.

[NY Jew]

in regards to point 1 SI could also be connected with Lower Manhattan like it used to be

in regards to point 2 the Orthodox Jewish community calls anywhere from Ave H to U between McDonald and Flatbush Ave (except for Marine Park and a few small areas) Flatbush.

In fact if you would ask the avg person (under a certain age) about most of the neighborhoods names (Manhattan Terrace, Madison ext. in fact most never heard of Gravesend) you see on a map most would have no clue where you are talking about unless they happen to know a Young Israel that has that name.  

I'd definitely refer to the area you're describing as mostly Midwood with a bit of Gravesend and Marine Park as well.  I guess you can call that Flatbush if you want, but when I hear Flatbush I definitely think of the areas north of that: the area around Brooklyn College, South Midwood (which is confusingly enough north of Midwood proper), Ditmas Park, Prospect Park South, and a bunch more neighborhoods on the other side of Flatbush Ave. I'm less familiar with.  Kensington is probably too far west to count.

Just to give you an idea of what I mean look at this headline
www.lakewoodlocal.com/2012/02/05/harav-asher-kalmanowitz-rosh-yeshiva-mir-flatbush-addresses-alumni-melava-malka-in-lakewood/

the school in question is on Ave R and Ocean Parkway.

[NY Jew]

It would come across as cynically and shamelessly partisan and venal but I wouldn't view it as motivated by racism in particular, no.

What I'm interested in is why would the New York Democratic Party, much of which is Jewish if the Jewish Democratic US Senator, five Jewish Democratic US Representatives, and Orthodox Jewish Democratic Assembly Speaker are any indication, be motivated by anti-Semitism, and if it's a question, as I suspect it partially is at least to you, of internal friction within Judaism as a religion and Jews as a people, then how on Earth is that anti-Semitic?

explain to me why the jewish community being divided into 5 districts is different from this
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/30/nyregion/andrew-w-cooper-74-pioneering-journalist.html

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

I, uh...we went over this before?

[NY Jew]

I'm talking about how they vote. That the creepy monolithicism.

just for the record the Only Orthodox area that can truly be considered monolithic is New Square in Ramapo township. (and only New Square not Monsey, Kaser ext.)

[NY Jew]

I, uh...we went over this before?

so you agree we should be included in the voting rights act.

[Devils30]

The Democratic NY-26 is roughly 55% Obama using Dave's App. Would certainly shore up Hochul

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

I, uh...we went over this before?

so you agree we should be included in the voting rights act.

I didn't say that. I don't see why there's any particular need for Jews (or just Orthodox Jews? You're not being very clear) to be included in the VRA and I also don't think there's any particular reason for Jews not to be included in the VRA. It's not something I'm inclined to be up in arms about considering that, among other things, Congress is much more Jewish than the country as a whole even without the, what, one or two plurality-Jewish districts it's possible to draw?