US House Redistricting: New York

[NY Jew]

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only if the Republican's put up a stupid candidate (we voted for Paladino at around a 50% rate and if he would not have been portrayed as a "Crazy Carl" he would have got at least in the 70%)

[NY Jew]

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and when was the last time the Republicans put up any Challenger against Kruger much less a good candidate (since at least 2004 the only challengers he ever got were on the conservative line with the last one being a 19 year old kid who got a record for the highest anyone ever got only on the Conservative line)

[NY Jew]

Why would Democrats ever accept a map like this?

because it's not anti semtic like the current one is (something the democrats are officially against)

[NY Jew]

Why would Democrats ever accept a map like this?

because it's not anti semtic like the current one is (something the democrats are officially against)

Protecting Jewish incumbents does not make a map anti-Semitic.

dividing the contiguous Orthodox population up in to 6 Congressional districts is anti semtic
dividing one Orthodox Jewish neighborhood in to 5 Congressional districts is Anti Semitic (only 2 out of those 5 were jewish 10 years ago and both Jews values are despised by many in the district even 10 years ago, they couldn't be elected dog catcher if there was an ungerrymandered district)

I have a Orthodox jewish neighborhood that's divided into 5 Congressional Districts try to find any neighborhood besides this in the country that's divided in to 4 Congressional Districts (you can't because it doesn't exist).
 If that's not anti semtic I guess there was no need for the voting rights act.

[NY Jew]

No, just 12 years old or fairly insular and not that bright.

I don't see how anyone can doubt he's from the place and community he posts about.

I'm not from Brooklyn

[NY Jew]

No, just 12 years old or fairly insular and not that bright.

I don't see how anyone can doubt he's from the place and community he posts about.

I might be a complete idiot but here are the facts (please interpret it for me)

1. there is 1 neighborhood in the country that has 5 Congressional Districts
2. this just so happens to be one of the most Orthodox neighborhoods in the country
3. there is no neighborhoods in the country that has 4 Congressional Districts
4. this same Neighborhood has 6 Assembly districts (arguably 7 depending on how you want to define neighborhoods)
5. I can't find another Neighborhood in the state that has 5 Assembly districts
6. There is 1 neighborhood in NY state that has 5 state Senate districts
7. this happens to be the neighborhood that has the highest percentage of Orthodox Jews in any city in the conutry
8. explain to me why Jewish Williamsburg population has been split in half (not along the BQE either in some of them) on every level of government (except on the Congressional level where the vote is negligible compared to the size of the district)
9. explain to me why the jewish community in Monsey is split into 2 Assembly seats (it's upstate so it should be easier to not disect communities)
10. explain to me why they even though the Orthodox Jewish population is one of the fastest growing communities in the state we had more Orthodox seats before the last redistricting process and even more in the one before that .

[NY Jew]

in regards to the voting rights act
there are plenty of ways to do it with out getting in trouble with the voting rights act.
There is no excuse for Nadler being in Borough Park and Flatbush.

in regards to the partisan I guess gerrymandering black areas during Jim Crow wasn't racist it was partisan politics.

[NY Jew]

in regards to the voting rights act
there are plenty of ways to do it with out getting in trouble with the voting rights act.
There is no excuse for Nadler being in Borough Park and Flatbush.

in regards to the partisan I guess gerrymandering black areas during Jim Crow wasn't racist it was partisan politics.

To make your case, you would need to do it on an individual district basis (with maps), and show that there are no reasonable motives other than animus against Orthodox Jews as to why the lines were drawn the way they were drawn. The Dems have controlled state assembly seat redistricting since rocks cooled, and of course are trying to max their numbers, while hewing to the VRA, just the way the Pubs have done for the NY state senate.

then why is (one of?) the most Conservative area in the country divided in to 5 state senate districts.

[NY Jew]

in regards to the voting rights act
there are plenty of ways to do it with out getting in trouble with the voting rights act.
There is no excuse for Nadler being in Borough Park and Flatbush.

in regards to the partisan I guess gerrymandering black areas during Jim Crow wasn't racist it was partisan politics.

To make your case, you would need to do it on an individual district basis (with maps), and show that there are no reasonable motives other than animus against Orthodox Jews as to why the lines were drawn the way they were drawn. The Dems have controlled state assembly seat redistricting since rocks cooled, and of course are trying to max their numbers, while hewing to the VRA, just the way the Pubs have done for the NY state senate.

please explain 39th City Council district
and the 41 Assembly district
and the 8th congressional district

[NY Jew]

Once again, how exactly does Silver (who I understand is not an entirely powerless figure within the NY legislature) fit in with this antisemitic conspiracy?

Silver is the most power hungry person in this state (he would sell his mother down the river for a little more of it, and everyone knows it)

[NY Jew]

NY Jew, you would need to put up maps.  /Screenshot2011-09-11at25007PM.png[/img]

how do I do that and what map do you want to see

[NY Jew]

It's worth noting here that the current districts were negotiated at a time when gay marriage was pretty much off the radar of mainstream politics, 9/11 had not yet occurred, one could still claim coherently to support both the actually existing government of Israel and a negotiated end to the occupation in the near future, and the Vice President of the administration that had signed DOMA had just run with Joseph Lieberman and dominated the Jewish vote of all levels of religiosity against a ticket that showed every sign of replicating the old Reagan/Bush Sr. lens on middle east policy in which the highest priority was the Saudi alliance.

The assumption that Orthodox and non-Orthodox Jews constitute radically different voting blocs at the federal level is mostly a product of events after this period. Strange as it seems now, putting Boro Park with Jerry Nadler actually did seem like it made more sense both politically and demographically (though not of course geographically) than putting it with Vito Fossella.

that's not even close to true (any district that has Borough Park and Greenwich Village is by far the most gerrymandered district in the country)
Orthodox Jews rejected Solarz back in the 80's over Social Issues, remember Noach Dears opposition to the 1986 gay rights bill (one of his main reasons, which retrospect shows he was right that this will lead to gay marriage)

[NY Jew]

that's not even close to true (any district that has Borough Park and Greenwich Village is by far the most gerrymandered district in the country)

Haha.

Even if you want to maintain partisan outrage, you can still look at the North Carolina and Maryland maps to see how laughable this statement is.

strange shapes are not the only way to to utterly gerrymander, It's perfectly possible to gerrymander with only squares if you put the 4 corners in the heart of a district you don't like.

is there any CD in NC or MD that has 2 contiguous areas with 50,000+ people 1 of which voted for McCain at a 90%+ rate and the other that voted for Obama at a 90%+ rate.

[NY Jew]

Vote dilution does not by itself make a gerrymandered. Do you know how the term came to be?

yes but that is not how the term is used today, not to mention Nadler's district is drawn very weird with the most diluted vote in the country which even using the word from 150 years ago this would be in the running.


doesn't mention salamander like districts either
Websters dictionary
transitive verb
1
: to divide (a territorial unit) into election districts to give one political party an electoral majority in a large number of districts while concentrating the voting strength of the opposition in as few districts as possible
2
: to divide (an area) into political units to give special advantages to one group <gerrymander a school district>

[NY Jew]

Yikes!  I thought that was Crowley's CD!  LOL.  My oh my.  OK, thanks muon2.  CD-09 is going to have to cross the border into Queens alas to pick up whites instead of Hispanics north of Broadway.  Man, I didn't realize there were that many Hispanics around. In fact there are so many, that the issue becomes whether to create two solid Hispanic CD's, or one solid and two more marginal perhaps. I see the fix.  It will mess up the map a bit, but not too much. The existing CD's are such a mess that it just got me confused. I thought that when I created a majority Hispanic CD by just giggling the lines a bit, and having looked at the existing Hispanic percentages in Velaquez's CD, that it must have been hers. The percentages just "fit" to well. My bad.

So yes, I did have Crowley and Velaquez swap CD's literally. That dog won't hunt. In any event, Crowley is going to end up with a very Hispanic CD after fixing generating the Velaquez CD with the Brooklyn-Queens border bisecting so that it has a sliver in Queens and a sliver in Kings, and then go and pick up the Hispanics near LaQuardia (sp) airport in Queens (that portion will be new to her).  NYC is segregation city isn't it?

Ethnic not segregated (it's way more then just white), black, Hispanic, and Asian (which is the whole point I was trying to say in the 9th Congressional district)) you have Irish Neighborhoods, Italian Neighborhoods (once was subdivided in to where in Italy you came from not sure if it still is), Jewish Neighborhoods (further subdivided in to many different areas based on different types places of origin and type of Judaism you practice (and I mean diffrent types of Orthodoxy are clustered in different areas of the city)), African American Neighborhoods, Haitian Neighborhoods, Porto Rican Neighborhoods, Dominican Neighborhoods, gay Neighborhoods, hipster Neighborhoods, Yuppy Neighborhoods,  Chinese Neighborhoods, Korean Neighborhoods, Jamaican Neighborhoods ext.

[NY Jew]

You, like, understand that Puertoricans are citizens and a lot of New York whites are not citizens, right? And quite a few New York blacks neither, btw?

Lewis, I don't understand why your tone toward Torie is so disproportionately hostile on this board.

because his map doesn't gerrymander they Jewish Communities that have potential to vote republican.

[NY Jew]

Krazen says his Meeks CD is 47% black.

A big problem with yanking Nassau county blacks out of the 4th is that it makes it, well, not vulnerable, but not a snoozefest either.

This drops it to 57% Obama.




Not in a million years will that district go to Hempstead (imo). The GOP is certainly better off if Peter King is not heavily packed, but now that Israel is DCCC chair...

if you want to make this fair move (jewish) Far Rockway to the 4th

[NY Jew]

if you want to make this fair move (jewish) Far Rockway to the 4th

Yeah, there's a funny six-precinct or so enclave of 90%+ Hasidic precincts ... that's split in two by the city line. I always thought that detail hilarious.

Orthodox most of it is not Hasidic.

[NY Jew]

That would not explain why the DRA calls Hispanics who checked "black" Hispanic rather than black. Or visa versa. The only problem with the the DRA is that it is not subtle enough to call black Hispanics in existing black opportunity CD's "black," while calling the very same black Hispanic folks in Hispanic opportunity CD's "Hispanic." In any event, the DRA could have had a subcategory of black Hispanics separate from just Hispanic or black alone, and that way the map makers could add the two-fer category to either the Hispanic or black group as appropriate.

Make sense?

how about the fact that it's used as an excuse to divide up the only area in the country where there could be a majority Jewish district in to 6 parts even though it would be just as compact a district as Jose Serrano's?

[NY Jew]

if you want to make this fair move (jewish) Far Rockway to the 4th

Yeah, there's a funny six-precinct or so enclave of 90%+ Hasidic precincts ... that's split in two by the city line. I always thought that detail hilarious.

Orthodox most of it is not Hasidic.

Meh, I always figure that when they vote en bloc. 

the Hasidic vote, votes in block in more unpredictable manners due to deal making (with the exception of Borough Park which is though majority hasidic has a vary large non hasidic population and no hasidic group has a real majority of even all the Hasidim in any area)

[NY Jew]

Why would a court dismantle Turner's district instead of some combination of Ackerman, McCarthy, and King? The Orthodox Jewish neighborhoods in southern Brooklyn form a pretty clear community of interest. If anything a fair map would unsplit the Jewish pockets instead of cracking them.

because the judge is a democrat appointee who lives in one of the most liberal parts of Brooklyn and probably hates orthodox jews with a passion.

[NY Jew]

Why would a court dismantle Turner's district instead of some combination of Ackerman, McCarthy, and King? The Orthodox Jewish neighborhoods in southern Brooklyn form a pretty clear community of interest. If anything a fair map would unsplit the Jewish pockets instead of cracking them.

because the judge is a democrat appointee who lives in one of the most liberal parts of Brooklyn and probably hates orthodox jews with a passion.

How does the last point follow from the first two even remotely? There are reasons to not want Bob Turner representing the district that he represents that have nothing to do with Jews, Orthodox or otherwise.

there are enough jews in Southern Brooklyn to create a majority conservative (Orthodox+Russian) jewish district the fact that they don't want to make one and make this the most gerrymandered neighborhood in the country (the neighborhood jews call Flatbush which has 5 Congressional seats is the only neighborhood in the country that has even 4 Congressional seats).
Any fair redistricting would not nullify the orthodox vote (the district I made would kick both Grimm and Turner out of Jewish Brooklyn).

The Republican plan gave The biggest parts of the jewish community to both Grimm and Turner to maximize their vote.
and the democrat anti Semites in the assembly and (self hating Jew at the lead (everyone in the Orthodox jewish community knows this)) divided us in to minced meat so we have no say.

And most likely the liberal judge would have no objections to politically destroying the orthodox community.

[NY Jew]

Again, I'm really not sure it's because you guys are Jewish. It sounds more like it's because you lean conservative. Do you really think it would be any different if you were some other religion/ethnicity with the same political leanings?

yes the dems plan doesn't break up SI (if they wanted to gerrymander strictly on partisan lines Grimm wouldn't have a chance)

besides how would this line come across "I'm not racist but I just divided up black neighborhoods at unprecedented rates because they vote democrat"

[NY Jew]

It would come across as cynically and shamelessly partisan and venal but I wouldn't view it as motivated by racism in particular, no.

What I'm interested in is why would the New York Democratic Party, much of which is Jewish if the Jewish Democratic US Senator, five Jewish Democratic US Representatives, and Orthodox Jewish Democratic Assembly Speaker are any indication, be motivated by anti-Semitism, and if it's a question, as I suspect it partially is at least to you, of internal friction within Judaism as a religion and Jews as a people, then how on Earth is that anti-Semitic?

More then liberal jews hate Christians they hate conservative Jews and more then that Orthodox Jews. (Sheldon Silver is someone who would kill his own mother for more power and everyone knows it).

[NY Jew]

5 districts? NY Jew, have you seen what they did to Austin?

please tell me the neighborhood in Austin that has 5 Congressional districts.
Espchilly considering the whole city (not just a neighborhood a neighborhood that has a fraction of Austin's population and size) has only 3 CDs

Brooklyn was added to the voting rights act because the black community which was bigger was divided in to 5 CDs at a time when NY had more CDs and each one had much less people.