The Anti-Bullying Bill Of Rights

[Jordan Gwendolyn]

As you may all know, New Jersey just passed an Anti-Bullying Bill Of Rights, which will set a new standard for the rest of the nation in terms of bullying. I myself am trying to push it in PA, and even wrote up some legislation.

Here is the text of the bill:

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2010/Bills/A3500/3466_R1.PDF

And the statement as well, for those who don't have time to read through amendments:

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2010/Bills/A3500/3466_S1.PDF

Do you think this could be the wave of the future? Do you think that maybe this could become a national concept.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I think it's a load of feel good PC bullsh**t which will criminalize normal behavior by kids.

Remember the policies where 5 year olds are accused of sexual harrassmant for sneaking a peck on the cheek from other kids?  Or where kids are accused of violating weapons policy for pretending to shoot someone with their finger?

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

One gets the idea that many New Jersey legislators had their heads dunked in toilets for most of their developing years.

There doesn't need to be a national 'policy'.  If bullying is found, expel the kid and move on.  Better yet, encourage bullying.  Bullying builds character.  The world isn't made of sunshine and cotton candy and young kids shouldn't be deluded into thinking so.

Thank goodness I'm not a lone wolf here.

[Zarn]

Stupid New Jersey... let the schools have control over it.

[Jordan Gwendolyn]

I think it's a load of feel good PC bullsh**t which will criminalize normal behavior by kids.

Remember the policies where 5 year olds are accused of sexual harrassmant for sneaking a peck on the cheek from other kids?  Or where kids are accused of violating weapons policy for pretending to shoot someone with their finger?

Didn't you read the bill??? It does NOT criminalize bullying any further. And yes, bullying is criminalized, its called HARASSMENT, which many states do have in their criminal statutes.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I think it's a load of feel good PC bullsh**t which will criminalize normal behavior by kids.

Remember the policies where 5 year olds are accused of sexual harrassmant for sneaking a peck on the cheek from other kids?  Or where kids are accused of violating weapons policy for pretending to shoot someone with their finger?

Didn't you read the bill??? It does NOT criminalize bullying any further. And yes, bullying is criminalized, its called HARASSMENT, which many states do have in their criminal statutes.

I read the statement.......I stand by my response.   Did you read Blubb's reply?:  "There doesn't need to be a national 'policy'.  If bullying is found, expel the kid and move on."

This just makes everyone feel good, like they're doing something about it........hogwash. 

[Jordan Gwendolyn]

Stupid New Jersey... let the schools have control over it.

Oh, New Jersey (as well as PA) let the schools have a lot of control over it, but its just not effective. New Jersey is putting these schools on a shorter leash and I hope PA follows.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Stupid New Jersey... let the schools have control over it.

Oh, New Jersey (as well as PA) let the schools have a lot of control over it, but its just not effective. New Jersey is putting these schools on a shorter leash and I hope PA follows.

Do you really think this bill will raise awareness or something?  They know the problem exists.  They don't want to deal with it.  This bill isn't going to be their epiphany. 

[Mr. Taft Republican]

Stupid New Jersey... let the schools have control over it.

Oh, New Jersey (as well as PA) let the schools have a lot of control over it, but its just not effective. New Jersey is putting these schools on a shorter leash and I hope PA follows.

If schools are the closest to the kids and can't do anything, why should we let a state have power over it?

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I wonder if Jordan can answer this:  Do you think the administrators at Brashear, Langley, and Westinghouse worry more about bullying, or spend their time and resources worrying about students getting killed in the gang crossfire on their way to school each day?

Imagine the worst cities in NJ, Jordan.........where do you think picking on a kid in the playground compares to say.......getting to school alive?

Do you think the bullying bill will change their priorities?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Looks like the main thing this bill does (besides cheapening even more the phrase "Bill of Rights") is add additional bureaucratic hoops for the public schools to go through.  While it may possibly be of some minor help in reducing school bullying, I doubt that the added costs in time and money will be worth it.

[DrScholl]

Some people obviously do not get the serious of bullying or are very warped into thinking it is a good thing. Harassing people and beating them up wasn't normal behavior last time I checked, but I guess it's too politically correct not to do those things now.

[Zarn]

Some people obviously do not get the serious of bullying or are very warped into thinking it is a good thing. Harassing people and beating them up wasn't normal behavior last time I checked, but I guess it's too politically correct not to do those things now.

Yes it was. People are still mean as adults. Kids need to learn.

[anvi]

I don't get the following arguments.

If schools are the closest to the kids and can't do anything, why should we let a state have power over it?

Does this mean that, if kids are getting assaulted in schools and the schools don't do anything, the rest of us should just ignore it?  Schools are public institutions, they are funded by our tax dollars and their curricula are approved by state boards; the public already has jurisdiction over them.

There doesn't need to be a national 'policy'.  If bullying is found, expel the kid and move on.  Better yet, encourage bullying.  Bullying builds character.  The world isn't made of sunshine and cotton candy and young kids shouldn't be deluded into thinking so.

Tell that to the child's mother when she has to pick up the child from the nurse's office and tend to their injuries, or visit them in the hospital.  And besides, this says two completely contradictory things; 1. expel someone who bullies, 2. encourage bullying. 

I agree that some teasing and pranks are normal.  But children should not be the targets of harassment or assault in schools, and I think schools should be accountable for protecting children. 

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I agree that some teasing and pranks are normal.  But children should not be the targets of harassment or assault in schools, and I think schools should be accountable for protecting children. 

They're not held accountable in any way shape or form now?  I doubt this bill even "raises awareness" (a staple in any liberal program) even though a quick read seems to suggest that this is what it's all about, along with many more bureaucratic requirements.   The taxpayers will pay for this too......once again.

[anvi]

I agree that some teasing and pranks are normal.  But children should not be the targets of harassment or assault in schools, and I think schools should be accountable for protecting children. 

They're not held accountable in any way shape or form now?  I doubt this bill even "raises awareness" (a staple in any liberal program) even though a quick read seems to suggest that this is what it's all about, along with many more bureaucratic requirements.   The taxpayers will pay for this too......once again.

They are held to some account, sure.  But maybe the state legislature sees room for improvement in the face of increased incidents.  Isn't everyone always clamoring for greater school accountability?  The provisions of the legislation look to me like they're doing more than "raising awareness."  They provide for training to teachers and administrators, place harsher penalties upon teacher abuse, refine the definition of harassment or bullying, making it easier for schools to expel offending students, and require rather than just encourage schools to formulate anti-bullying programs. 

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I agree that some teasing and pranks are normal.  But children should not be the targets of harassment or assault in schools, and I think schools should be accountable for protecting children. 

They're not held accountable in any way shape or form now?  I doubt this bill even "raises awareness" (a staple in any liberal program) even though a quick read seems to suggest that this is what it's all about, along with many more bureaucratic requirements.   The taxpayers will pay for this too......once again.

They are held to some account, sure.  But maybe the state legislature sees room for improvement in the face of increased incidents.  Isn't everyone always clamoring for greater school accountability?  The provisions of the legislation look to me like they're doing more than "raising awareness."  They provide for training to teachers and administrators, place harsher penalties upon teacher abuse, refine the definition of harassment or bullying, making it easier for schools to expel offending students, and require rather than just encourage schools to formulate anti-bullying programs. 

That's the part that bothers me.......you and I both know that when Johnny cuts in front of Jimmy in the lunch line and laughs at him for doing it that Johnny is gonna get a few days at home cooling his heels because he's a bully.  Normal behavior (being a true bully is not normal behavior) will be essentially criminalized in school......that's how these programs always end up......well intentioned but everyone will call things "bullying" that most normal people wouldn't because they're afraid of violating the "law".

[tmthforu94]

Bunch of sissies...invest more in physical education, so these kids can defend themselves!

[DrScholl]

Yes it was. People are still mean as adults. Kids need to learn.

The thing is, an adult would be in legal trouble if they went around harassing and beating up anyone. Kids ought to learn there are consequences for bullying.

[opebo]

By the logic of various conservatives who have posted in this thread, we should legalize murder, robbery, and rape.  After all gentlemen, why coddle the weak with legal protections?

[Associate Justice PiT]

     I actually sort of agree with opebo here. If a child commits assault or battery in the course of bullying, s/he should be treated as any other child who commits assault or battery.

[Badger]

My own take is that for some kids school is like prison in a lot of ways except you get off at 3:00 PM. I don't mean because of "mean old teachers" and "creativity stifling educational systems" yadda-yadda. I mean because there are "gangs" of tougher kids (whether the type who flash colors or hand signs or just "Tommy and his friends") who will physically threaten and assault lone weaker (or just plain outnumbered) kids.

The guards administration doesn't condone it, but often doesn't exactly push hard to correct the problem either. The victims' problems are often dealt with a combined attitude of "we didn't see it so there's nothing we can do", "we can't be everywhere at once", "you'll have to work it out yourselves" ("work it out" with 4 kids punching you in the head every morning ), and the classic: "kids will be kids". The end result is often its more trouble and danger to "snitch" than to just try keeping one's head down and try enduring it. Especially as protection is lacking "on the mainline" in "general population" (aka recess and before/after school). And like that school is essentially a 12 year sentence.

I truly believe society wrongly minimizes assaults and threats between kids. If a 41 year old is punched in the face without provocation by someone their age and suffers a bloody nose and black eye, one immediately feels a strong sense of sympathy for the victim and outrage that another person would act so mindlessly violent. But if it happens between two 14 year olds, there's some sympathy towards the victim and some frustration towards the assailant, but its nowhere near the same. The 14 year old is seen more as "naughty" than someone who hurt another person without reason, and the primary reaction towards the victim is more of sadly shaking one's head and saying "tsk, tsk, tsk....boys will be boys".

I think that's BS. Was that black eye and bloody nose any less painful to the 14 year old than the 41 year old? Did the 41 year old "learn a valuable life lesson" out of the incident? Was the 41 year old bully simply guilty of "guys being guys"? Yes, I understand that raging young hormones have a lot to do with such aberrant (and abhorant) behavior. But I have a theory that the abnormal (but necessary) social structure existing in the confines of a school creates a similar strong (physically) at the top weaker at the bottom structure as a prison, making it both socially advantageous to bully and difficult to be caught and punished for doing so.

This is why I'm as hardnosed in assault and menacing prosecutions in Juvi Court as for adult cases. I realize this screed isn't really related to the thread topic. I admit I didn't read the linked details of the law (yet), but this is my two cents on the general issue.

And before anyone asks: No, I was never beaten up in school.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Well I for one appreciate Badger's view of it......as I do with most subjects. 

[Badger]

Well I for one appreciate Badger's view of it......as I do with most subjects. 

<thumps chest> Much love, my Steeltown homie.

[nclib]

Definitely agree with this. Bullying is a very serious problem (often illegal when the same acts involve adults) and simply dismissing it as "I don't condone it, but it happens, let's move on" is unacceptable. No one expects bullying to disappear once an anti-bullying bill is passed, but it will decrease and no other criminal behavior can be expected to disappear, but are generally agreed to be desireable to deter and punish harmful behavior. It is not relevant if the child's act is normal for them, but rather that it is harmful to others as children have a right to be protected, arguably even moreso than adults since the state requires them to be there. Young children who can't understand or control their behavior shouldn't be punished, but this is not accurate for bullies.

I competely agree with Badger's point about the assaults between 14-year-olds vs. assaults between 41-year-olds, and will add that sadly our society is more concerned with children being childlike and disciplined, than doing what's good for themselves, others and society. For example, when I was a child (actually happened at an after-school program, but the point is still valid), myself and two children were building legos and one child accidentally knocked it down. The other child got mad at him and called him many things including a "f()ckhead", and was sent home for the day. At the same place there were kids who got away with unprovokingly pushing or hitting someone. This is an awful value to be teaching our youth, and not even necessary to prepare children for the real world since a comparable situation among adults (even in conservative circles) would gather a totally different reaction, because of both the type of reaction and that one was caused by cruelty and the other by frustration at another's mistake.

Imagine the worst cities in NJ.........where do you think picking on a kid in the playground compares to say.......getting to school alive?

It's not either or, and bullying is far far more prevalent than murder and harder for the victim to avoid.