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  The Miscellany Act
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Author Topic: The Miscellany Act  (Read 5403 times)
Colin
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« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2004, 12:03:13 pm »

I will vote against this bill unless Section 3 is removed.
I don't see why? Section 3 only concerns government recognized organized parties. It is just a criteria to go with the organized party criteria already in place. An unorganized party can still have a platform that is how ever long they want it but Section 3 is only concerned with government recognized organized parties and is thus not a violation of free speech.
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Bono
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« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2004, 12:15:14 pm »

I oppose this. The imperial system is the symbol of the fight against internationalism. I also oppose this adding of items to bills to make them more passable.
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Colin
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« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2004, 12:32:59 pm »

A point that Ernest raised in another thread made me realise that another section would be useful for this Bill:

Section 5: System of Measurement

1. For the purposes of all statute, executive orders, judicial rulings, other official documents of the Atlasian government and for all acts of commerce, the International System of Units, as it stands at the passage of this bill into law, shall be the standard system of measurement throughout Atlasia.

2. Other, non-standard systems of measurement may be used, however, all quantities must be defined in the standard system of measurement alongside the non-standard system of measurement.

3. The sole exception to this Section shall be those distances that exceed 200 meters in length, where the mile may be used as a concurrent standard definition.


Its pretty straight forward, and most of us in here are at worst in our 20s, so we grew up on the metric system for the most part. The exception is given in Section 3 as I recall from my last visit to the US (ILV might still have been in dippers), all road signs are given in miles, and I don't especially want to replace every road sign in the US due to the cost and the inherent confusion it would cause. I would also like everybody to know the pain that I endured mis-spelling metre for this section.

I will not support this bill if it demands that the country use metric. That is an outrage. I say that this shoudn't be a part of this bill and I would like to ask everyone that if this is included to vote against this bill.
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Siege40
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« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2004, 01:17:24 pm »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does this bill require that all laws be written in metric? If so, that's fine.

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Peter
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« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2004, 01:18:38 pm »

I will not support this bill if it demands that the country use metric. That is an outrage. I say that this shoudn't be a part of this bill and I would like to ask everyone that if this is included to vote against this bill.

Nobody is forced to use soley metric under this system - companies are free to use dual systems of measurement as they wish. I just feel that it is in the best interests of consumers if they are able to compare like for like in one single system of units, rather than having to carry a calculator around with them to do imperial-metric conversions.

I oppose this. The imperial system is the symbol of the fight against internationalism. I also oppose this adding of items to bills to make them more passable.

I thought that Greenpeace was the symbol of the fight angainst internationalism, and besides there's nothing wrong with using one standard system of measurement the world over - it makes international commerce much easier.

I am not trying to add items to make them more passable, I'm simply trying to get them considered. Sections 2 and 4 have come up on previous occassions and they never got anywhere simply because they were such insignificant measures that the Senate wasn't very interested. The advantage of coalescing them into one bill is that things that are good to have on the statute books actually do make into law because the Senate is willing to consider them, especially with something as needed as the Census definitions.

That said, I support having the Senate vote section by section on the bill if they think this is in order so that nobody feels that any of the Sections have been bolted on to ride with the rest of the bill.

As to the concerns that Ernest raises:
I forgot about weather reports and cooking books. I'll draft something on it. I am slightly surprised to hear that construction still works in imperial, especially as the US does not have a uniform usage of the Inch as far as I am aware.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does this bill require that all laws be written in metric? If so, that's fine.

Yes it does.
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Ernest
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« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2004, 03:48:34 pm »

The US actually has two inches, both defined in terms of the metric system.

The common inch (or international inch as it is officially called as it was adopted in 1959 by an agreement between Australia, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa, the United Kingdom, and the United States) uses the conversion 1 inch = 25.4mm.  However, there was a large amount of geodetic data using the inch as it was defined in US law in 1866 which was 1 meter=39.37 inches. This inch is called the survey inch.  The two inches differ by 2 parts per million, so you have to get to some extremely fine tolerences to notice the difference.  The difference between the international inch and the old pre-1959 imperial inch is about 1 part per ten thousand which caused a more noticable, but still not easily noticable change for the Brits.

However, if conversion from the survey inch to the international inch was deemed impractcal when all that is required is a single (albeit non-decimal) conversion factor, can you imagine the troubles that would be caused by a metric requirement, particularly when all the existing geodetic data is in survey units?
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StevenNick
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« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2004, 03:52:52 pm »

I oppose this. The imperial system is the symbol of the fight against internationalism. I also oppose this adding of items to bills to make them more passable.

I would like to echo Senator Bono's sentiments.  Adopting the metric system is an unwarranted sacrifice of our national sovereignty.  Here in the United States we use our own system of weights and measures and I see no need to change that at this time.  I also share Senator Bono's general apprehension regarding growing internationalism.   I am a free trader.  I am not afraid of cooperating with other nations to achieve economic growth, but I will resist any measure that would take away any part of American culture and replace it with any kind of international standard.

This addition to the Miscellany Act has further solidified my vote.  I will vote against this bill.  If it passes, I will urge President PBrunsel to exercise his veto power.
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« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2004, 04:12:37 pm »

The Imperial System is an antiquated fossil that has no place in the modern world. You might as well use hogsheads, cubits, and rods and thee, thou and thine.
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Siege40
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« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2004, 04:25:57 pm »

The Imperial System is an antiquated fossil that has no place in the modern world. You might as well use hogsheads, cubits, and rods and thee, thou and thine.

Agreed. Not to mention its name, Imperial. I oppose all imperialism! Wink.
It's not a forced conversion, it's merely to bring continutiy. We cannot continue to ignore other nations, which many have adopted this system. By providing conversions on our bills we lose none of (y)our cultural identity.

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NYGurl
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« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2004, 04:28:21 pm »

I was going to vote for this until you added section 5.
bring it in as an amendment to the bill.
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Peter
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« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2004, 04:32:47 pm »

I was going to vote for this until you added section 5.
bring it in as an amendment to the bill.

Since this is far more controversial than I had expected, I don't want to endanger the bill as a whole (especially the census provisions), so I will introduce it as an amendment only.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2004, 05:27:57 pm »

This is a terrible bill.
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2004, 05:17:08 am »

I hereby open the voting on the amendment that Peter Bell has attached to this act by submitting it myself.

All please vote Yea or Nay (or abstain) on this amendment.
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Bono
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« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2004, 08:43:39 am »

Nay.
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King
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« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2004, 01:06:14 pm »

You should also include the barring of titles of nobility from the government.
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Peter
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« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2004, 01:08:14 pm »

You should also include the barring of titles of nobility from the government.

Considering thats in the Constitutional Amendment presently before a public poll, it is unnecessary.
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King
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« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2004, 01:15:44 pm »

You should also include the barring of titles of nobility from the government.

Considering thats in the Constitutional Amendment presently before a public poll, it is unnecessary.

It is? Well, as they say in the U.S/ House of Representatives, "nobody reads the bills"
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2004, 02:06:20 pm »

I abstain.
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Harry
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« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2004, 02:31:00 pm »

I vote Yea.  When the rest of the world uses the more sensible metric system, there's no reason for Atlasia to be a stick-in-the-mud about it.  Especially when the metric system makes so much more sense anyway.
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NYGurl
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« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2004, 02:58:00 pm »

Nay.
on the amendment.
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #45 on: November 27, 2004, 03:05:33 pm »

I abstain.

My reasoning behind this vote is that although the Metric system is far more sensible and comprehensible, I still like using Imperial measurements for things such as height and weight.
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StevenNick
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« Reply #46 on: November 27, 2004, 03:08:27 pm »

I vote nay.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2004, 05:12:11 pm »

Nay
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Harry
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« Reply #48 on: November 27, 2004, 07:28:17 pm »

Shame on you nay voters.  You won't do one simple thing to try to join the international community.  You one get rid of one archaic nonsensical aspect of our country and switch to a sensible system that the rest of the world uses.
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StevenNick
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« Reply #49 on: November 28, 2004, 02:34:46 am »

Shame on you nay voters.  You won't do one simple thing to try to join the international community.  You one get rid of one archaic nonsensical aspect of our country and switch to a sensible system that the rest of the world uses.

International community?  You must be joking.  What international community?  And why should we have to sacrifice some of our cultural uniqueness just so we can fit in with this nonexistent 'international community?'  Shame on you for your willingness to sacrifice national sovereignty.

Besides, the main reason I voted against this bill was because of the restrictions placed on political parties and platform writing.  This is a serious infringement of free speech rights.
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