Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ) in critical condition, 6 others killed in Arizona

[J. J.]

I love the assumption that because he burns flags then therefore he's left-wing.

Would you care to show me some examples of right wingers burning flags.

[DrScholl]

Except, who is creating it.  It isn't the right.  It is the leftists here, and not all of them, that are trying to create this.

I'm willing to say that even though the guy was described as "left wing" and posted a video of himself burning a flag, he probably is disturbed, and not typical of the left wing.  Instead we have some of our leftists trying to tie to this to the right wing.

The leftist here fulfilled Beck's prediction, but not with any help from the right.

I think the point is that politicians and hosts need to self-moderate themselves and not create a dangerous climate. Just because this shooter cannot be easily fit in on the ideological scale, does not mean that inflammatory rhetoric isn't a problem.

[exopolitician]

So he might be affiliated with the American Renaissance?

[Keystone Phil]

I love the assumption that because he burns flags then therefore he's left-wing.

Anyone that assumes that is wrong...just like anyone that thinks being "anti government" is necessarily only extremely right wing.

The bigger the government, the more left-wing it is.

It reminds me of my arguments with a friend of mine when he insists that fascism is far left because it advocates bigger government.

The killer was nothing more than a lunatic. He has been described as someone that hates those in power. He has views that match those of the far left and the far right. Time to accept that and stop blaming one side for this.

I agree with this, and I hate when you start becoming really sarcastic in your posts. Of course I don't fault Palin for this, she had nothing to do with it. The only thing I hold against her is her "rhetoric" shes used the past year or so. That goes for a lot of other people, and ive already said people should watch what they said whether they are Democrat or Republican.

If this was tied to a Tea Partier or other far right winger, I'd agree but this nut wasn't acting on what Palin or Beck or anyone else said. In fact, he probably hates them, too, so I don't see how their rhetoric is to blame.

If Palin had "nothing to do with it," I just ask that you don't indulge certain people when they post the "targeted districts" map. As someone that follows politics, it ought to be accepted that posting that is extremely disingenuous.

[J. J.]

The killer was nothing more than a lunatic. He has been described as someone that hates those in power. He has views that match those of the far left and the far right. Time to accept that and stop blaming one side for this.

I agree with this, and I hate when you start becoming really sarcastic in your posts. Of course I don't fault Palin for this, she had nothing to do with it. The only thing I hold against her is her "rhetoric" shes used the past year or so. That goes for a lot of other people, and ive already said people should watch what they said whether they are Democrat or Republican.

And how do know that this guy even heard this rhetoric?  Looking at the description of him from others, this guy did not have Tea Party written all over him.  What makes even think that a guy this far out would be swayed by rhetoric, without regard to the source.

[they don't love you like i love you]

I love the assumption that because he burns flags then therefore he's left-wing.

Anyone that assumes that is wrong...just like anyone that thinks being "anti government" is necessarily only extremely right wing.

The bigger the government, the more left-wing it is.

It reminds me of my arguments with a friend of mine when he insists that fascism is far left because it advocates bigger government.

It is an incredibly stupid statement yes. I am just pointing out that many on your side adhere to this type of thinking. It seems your friend would agree that this guy is "right wing" too.

[exopolitician]

The killer was nothing more than a lunatic. He has been described as someone that hates those in power. He has views that match those of the far left and the far right. Time to accept that and stop blaming one side for this.

I agree with this, and I hate when you start becoming really sarcastic in your posts. Of course I don't fault Palin for this, she had nothing to do with it. The only thing I hold against her is her "rhetoric" shes used the past year or so. That goes for a lot of other people, and ive already said people should watch what they said whether they are Democrat or Republican.

And how do know that this guy even heard this rhetoric?  Looking at the description of him from others, this guy did not have Tea Party written all over him.  What makes even think that a guy this far out would be swayed by rhetoric, without regard to the source.

I didn't say he was part of the Tea Party, I'm just saying that Politicians who use rhetoric like Palin and the Tea Party aren't helping the cause when something like this happens. It can be influential, even though I've already said the guy didn't need influence. He is legit insane.

The killer was nothing more than a lunatic. He has been described as someone that hates those in power. He has views that match those of the far left and the far right. Time to accept that and stop blaming one side for this.

I agree with this, and I hate when you start becoming really sarcastic in your posts. Of course I don't fault Palin for this, she had nothing to do with it. The only thing I hold against her is her "rhetoric" shes used the past year or so. That goes for a lot of other people, and ive already said people should watch what they said whether they are Democrat or Republican.

If this was tied to a Tea Partier or other far right winger, I'd agree but this nut wasn't acting on what Palin or Beck or anyone else said. In fact, he probably hates them, too, so I don't see how their rhetoric is to blame.

If Palin had "nothing to do with it," I just ask that you don't indulge certain people when they post the "targeted districts" map. As someone that follows politics, it ought to be accepted that posting that is extremely disingenuous.
[/quote]


The Targeted Districts don't actually mention certain people by name though, I feel like they are both entirely different. Not only that, but they are all located on a map by Gun targets. Quite different and I don't think it's fair to compare the two.

[Mechaman]

This thread makes me cry inside.
I'm not denying that there may have been a political motive, but the attitudes displayed by some posters in this thread is just disgusting.
Anyone who would use an event of violence like this to promote a political viewpoint is pathetic.
Period.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

This thread makes me cry inside.
I'm not denying that there may have been a political motive, but the attitudes displayed by some posters in this thread is just disgusting.
Anyone who would use an event of violence like this to promote a political viewpoint is pathetic.
Period.

I'm disappointed by many here, yes.  It's best just to post your best wishes for the dead and survivors and skip the rest....believe me.

[J. J.]

Except, who is creating it.  It isn't the right.  It is the leftists here, and not all of them, that are trying to create this.

I'm willing to say that even though the guy was described as "left wing" and posted a video of himself burning a flag, he probably is disturbed, and not typical of the left wing.  Instead we have some of our leftists trying to tie to this to the right wing.

The leftist here fulfilled Beck's prediction, but not with any help from the right.

I think the point is that politicians and hosts need to self-moderate themselves and not create a dangerous climate. Just because this shooter cannot be easily fit in on the ideological scale, does not mean that inflammatory rhetoric isn't a problem.

And how was Beck inciting anything, other than possibly noting that there were loonies out there who are capable of violence; you didn't realize there were?

The shooter does not seem to have any underlying philosophy, except he hated everyone in government.

And, as Phil points out, it is silly to  to claim that words like
"targeting" have a nonpolitical meaning in the context.

[Mechaman]

This thread makes me cry inside.
I'm not denying that there may have been a political motive, but the attitudes displayed by some posters in this thread is just disgusting.
Anyone who would use an event of violence like this to promote a political viewpoint is pathetic.
Period.

I'm disappointed by many here, yes.  It's best just to post your best wishes for the dead and survivors and skip the rest....believe me.

Yeah you're right.
In retrospect my last statement was a bit harsh (considering that "violence to achieve political ends" can be construed into a political statement.....yeah.  That was probably a bit too strawman of a statement).  But still people, is it too hard to ask for a bit of decorum?

I wish those who suffered from this event persevere through this tragedy.  I wish that Congressman Giffords makes a full recovery and can continue her job.
That is all.

[Keystone Phil]

The Targeted Districts don't actually mention certain people by name though, I feel like they are both entirely different. Not only that, but they are all located on a map by Gun targets. Quite different and I don't think it's fair to compare the two.

...

Palin's map is of targeted districts and the targeted districts are showing which ones were vulnerable for a Republican pick up. They are located on a map and of course they are going to name the incumbent member of Congress that is being targeted for defeat. Or should we not be allowed to say which members we want losing now?

[Free Palestine]

As I've already said, he would've probably shot someone if he was a left-winger.  The man was batsh-t insane before anything else.  The people who cling to the idea that he was some teabagger brownshirt are f--king stupid, and their behavior, politicizing something like this, is morally reprehensible.

[Lief 🗽]

No one is saying he was a teabagger brownshirt. What people are saying is that many on the right-wing (arguably the far right-wing) in this country have created an atmosphere where this kind of political violence is normalized and subtly encouraged, to the point that something like this happening eventually isn't very surprising at all.

[exopolitician]

The Targeted Districts don't actually mention certain people by name though, I feel like they are both entirely different. Not only that, but they are all located on a map by Gun targets. Quite different and I don't think it's fair to compare the two.

...

Palin's map is of targeted districts and the targeted districts are showing which ones were vulnerable for a Republican pick up. They are located on a map and of course they are going to name the incumbent member of Congress that is being targeted for defeat. Or should we not be allowed to say which members we want losing now?

I know that. It's still irresponsible of Palin for representing it the way she did. Plus the tweets about "not retreating, reloading" and such. Not that it's the central cause, since I have to keep repeating myself, but it still doesn't help the situation.

No one is saying he was a teabagger brownshirt. What people are saying is that many on the right-wing (arguably the far right-wing) in this country have created an atmosphere where this kind of political violence is normalized and subtly encouraged, to the point that something like this happening eventually isn't very surprising at all.

^Yes.

[they don't love you like i love you]

No one is saying he was a teabagger brownshirt. What people are saying is that many on the right-wing (arguably the far right-wing) in this country have created an atmosphere where this kind of political violence is normalized and subtly encouraged, to the point that something like this happening eventually isn't very surprising at all.

Exactly. As brittain pointed out, remember Angle talking about "Second Amendment Remedies"

[Free Palestine]

No one is saying he was a teabagger brownshirt. What people are saying is that many on the right-wing (arguably the far right-wing) in this country have created an atmosphere where this kind of political violence is normalized and subtly encouraged, to the point that something like this happening eventually isn't very surprising at all.

lolno

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

No one is saying he was a teabagger brownshirt. What people are saying is that many on the right-wing (arguably the far right-wing) in this country have created an atmosphere where this kind of political violence is normalized and subtly encouraged, to the point that something like this happening eventually isn't very surprising at all.

lolno

Denial! Denial! Denial!

[afleitch]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

He is a self-professed homosexual, so I find that unlikely. Perhaps he was trying to impress Clay Aiken?

If you're taking that from his 'Facebook' page - sorry to say it's a hoax.

[bgwah]

No one is saying he was a teabagger brownshirt. What people are saying is that many on the right-wing (arguably the far right-wing) in this country have created an atmosphere where this kind of political violence is normalized and subtly encouraged, to the point that something like this happening eventually isn't very surprising at all.

I always think it's interesting to compare the campaign tone of Republicans last year to the Democrats in 2008.

[Landslide Lyndon]

I'd like to here from avikshniki (or his girlfriend) on the latest medical developments.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/09/arizona.shooting/index.html

Tucson, Arizona (CNN) -- U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords is able to communicate with doctors by following simple commands, a doctor said Sunday.
"We are very encouraged by that," said Dr. Michael Lemole, Jr., chief of neurosurgery at University Medical Center in Tuscon, Arizona. "I am cautiously optimistic."
Giffords remained in critical condition after a gunman shot her in the head and then opened fire on a crowd at a political meet-and-greet Saturday outside an Arizona supermarket.

...

Giffords was under sedation, said Dr. Peter Rhee, medical director of the UMC trauma center, on Sunday. Doctors will turn off the sedation periodically and allow her brain to begin functioning and "see what her progress is," Rhee added.

Swelling of the brain is the biggest threat Giffords faces, said Lemole. The bullet traveled through the left hemisphere of her brain from back to front, he said, and "not through some of those critical trajectories" that would have made recovery more difficult. The most traumatic gunshot injuries are when a bullet crosses from one hemisphere to another, he said.
Doctors removed part of Giffords' skull during surgery in order to keep the brain from pressing against it if it swells, Lemole said.

"This so far has been a very good situation," Rhee said. "Hopefully it will stay that way."
While the simple commands she can follow may be taken for granted, Lemole said, they actually indicate a high level of brain functioning.

[exopolitician]

You people just do not let up, do you?

The way that people in this thread, and elsewhere, have exploited this tragedy from the very beginning to score cheap (and increasingly nonsensical) political points is sickening.  Do you cretins not have any sense of respect or decency?  Or, for that matter, perspective?  I cannot believe this.  You might recall that after 9/11 the Ann Coulter types at least had the common decency to wait a couple months before saying it was all the fault of liberal surrender monkeys in the media.  The asswipes in this thread are making me ashamed to be a human being.

Reactions like those aren't uncommon though in a situation like this I'm sure.

[Хahar 🤔]

You people just do not let up, do you?

The way that people in this thread, and elsewhere, have exploited this tragedy from the very beginning to score cheap (and increasingly nonsensical) political points is sickening.  Do you cretins not have any sense of respect or decency?  Or, for that matter, perspective?  I cannot believe this.  You might recall that after 9/11 the Ann Coulter types at least had the common decency to wait a couple months before saying it was all the fault of liberal surrender monkeys in the media.  The asswipes in this thread are making me ashamed to be a human being.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

What people forget is that Giffords was targeted in the past by tea party members anyways, she could have just as easily been shot by one of them as this deranged lunatic. Remember how one of her congressional offices was shot? Remember when a gun was found on the floor after one of her events? Remember that how she was constantly subjected to threatening rhetoric from loons constantly? While she wasn't shot by a tea party member, she was the subject of all of their deranged vitriol which could have just as easily led to this outcome by their hand. Remember that we are the ones who actually had an attachment to Giffords and liked her as a Congresswoman and person before this event happened. Do you really think that all of spin is all a big Machiavellian move to gain one percent in a poll for a week? We're actually outraged because the things we've been saying for years actually came true. Whether or not it came from a tea party member is besides the point, people should have been outraged by the past two years of absurdity, anyways. I think why you're seeing so much left wing outrage now is because this is the last ing straw.

Giffords said herself that being targeted by Palin's crosshairs was just the wrong message to send and that it could have consequences. So I suppose if you want to disagree with her then, go ahead...

(yeah I went there. normally i hate bollocks like this and the spin that always, always, always goes on after tragedies but there's been one side acting like fascists for the past two years and i feel no sympathy for them because the news coverage towards them has been slanted with regards to this news story)

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

You people just do not let up, do you?

The way that people in this thread, and elsewhere, have exploited this tragedy from the very beginning to score cheap (and increasingly nonsensical) political points is sickening.  Do you cretins not have any sense of respect or decency?  Or, for that matter, perspective?  I cannot believe this.  You might recall that after 9/11 the Ann Coulter types at least had the common decency to wait a couple months before saying it was all the fault of liberal surrender monkeys in the media.  The asswipes in this thread are making me ashamed to be a human being.

It's called the internet. People are free to be asshats here and reveal veiled opinions that they wouldn't show off in public. Well at least views that most people wouldn't show off in public.