Am I alone in thinking...

[Хahar 🤔]

What's even more amusing is that Marokai himself was recruited from off-site.

Not to participate in Atlasia.

[tmthforu94]

*Sigh*

There's so many different things I could respond to, but I'll try and keep this as brief as possible.

First off, I'm disappointed that you Belgian, that you’re in this race just for the sake of “splitting the left”. You can criticize me all you want, but I’m in this race because I think I can help improve the game. You’re just in the race for political reasons.

Another thing about Tmth I don't really like is his failure to do his dirty chores himself. Criticism is directed at him and it are his supporters who are the ones who defend him. His opponents are never directly attacked by Thmth but by the people behinf him. The awfull, disgusting way you tried to direct a tsunami of personal abuse at Marokai is the vilest, but not the only example of that. Why didn't Tmth condemn that awfull attack there and then, instead merely contenting himself to say 'It's not me'?

I am sure that bgwah would love to know that he is a "tmth backer". That scene was hardly the work of one candidate or one party.

It was the work of Wormyguy, a Tmth supporter, and I haven't heard a condemnation coming from Tmth (or his minions for that matter).

Before making attacks like this one, do your research….

How would you comment a low-road, smear campaign conducted by Populares member Wormyguy?

Is that a stance Tmthforu94/Dallasfan65 team is approving, or you're disavowing such kind of actions?

My campaign will not engage in the personal attacks that are going on, nor do we approve of them.

Other than that, I see there have been specific attacks on my lack of substance. If you have a question you’d like answered, please ask me a question. I’ve stated numerous times I’d be willing to answer any question given to me. Regarding specific policy, instead of posting it here, where it’ll likely be overlooked, I’ll be more than happy to address some of the concerns in the debate currently under way. However, one quick response to Marokai - I have never asked Badger to just give me cuts. Will I work with him and take his suggestions? Of course, he’s the GM. What was in that message I sent him? Specific cuts I had in mind, to which he responded to this evening.

I feel like I can speak for many others in this game when I say that this isn’t what’s best for the game. This game isn’t about defeating the right or defeating the left. This election is about improving this game. Nothing more, nothing less. I don’t care what party you’re in, what ideology you belong to. If you have a good idea, whether it’s now or if I manage to become President, we’ll run with it.

[Marokai Backbeat]

What's even more amusing is that Marokai himself was recruited from off-site.

Date registered on the forum: July 9th, 2007.

Date registered in Atlasia: December 1st, 2008.

[Marokai Backbeat]

QFT. Harsh, but QFT.

Quoted for what truth? I so no point in that post except a random picture, a disengenuous implication by means of stupid new catchphrase, and the accusation that I should be reported to the FBI because I want wormyguy to be banned. I see nothing about the actual subject of the thread.

[HappyWarrior]

You still don't see the problem with one of the most malignant posts I've ever seen on any board on this forum ever? You still don't see why that sort of behaviour is completely unacceptable?

How about this?  For that matter, how about this?  I don't believe I had had any personal disputes with Marokai prior to either of those posts.  I also find it telling that you find it more objectionable that I bring up that Marokai is actively committing a felony than that he's actively committing said felony.  Indeed, it's only because I'm an absurdly nice, nonconfrontational person that I would never report him to the FBI, which is what any reasonable person should do.  Not a threat, I really would never.

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No, that would be Tmth's Stormfront thugs.

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I could care less.

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Why should Tmth have to condemn anything that's factually true?  If you were offended that I said the Earth was round, should Tmth have to "condemn" me and declare the Earth flat?  Of course, since Tmth is even more absurdly nice and nonconfrontational than I am, he probably will.

QFT. Harsh, but QFT.

For the record that picture is hilarious.

[bgwah]

This thread has totally lost me...

...but back to the original post: Conservatives/Republicans have a tough time winning in Atlasia. Off the top of my head, only three Republicans have been elected (PBrunsel, Colin, and Phil), and Colin was a bit of a RINO, and Phil had a unity ticket that got him some liberal voters. So really,  PBrunsel was the only all-R ticket to ever win in 7 years of Atlasia. Tmth's strategy was obviously to sit back and let the left's feuds tear itself apart--and I honestly can't say that was a bad strategy, but considering the changing circumstances, he might want to try something else.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

What's even more amusing is that Marokai himself was recruited from off-site.

Date registered on the forum: July 9th, 2007.

Date registered in Atlasia: December 1st, 2008.

Any more nonsense from you, Worms?

[J. J.]

This thread has totally lost me...

...but back to the original post: Conservatives/Republicans have a tough time winning in Atlasia. Off the top of my head, only three Republicans have been elected (PBrunsel, Colin, and Phil), and Colin was a bit of a RINO, and Phil had a unity ticket that got him some liberal voters. So really,  PBrunsel was the only all-R ticket to ever win in 7 years of Atlasia. Tmth's strategy was obviously to sit back and let the left's feuds tear itself apart--and I honestly can't say that was a bad strategy, but considering the changing circumstances, he might want to try something else.

I've become very disappointed with the RPP, both in terms of conduct and policy, obviously.  Since I announced I was planning to resign in weeks after being elected, and the RPP is obviously trying to look reformist, now, I'm surprised no one wanted to be my VP candidate. 

Is this snatching defeat from the jaws of victory?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Yeah, I 100% agree with Belgiansocialist. I like Tmthforu but I think is campaign is far too much concentrated on character for my tastes.

[Insula Dei]

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I'll try to defend myself: yes, part of why I run is because I think J.J. might hurt the right's chances to get elected, but it's not the main reason. I run for VP alongside J.J. because noone else would and because I think he should be able to run for President, even if his own party couldn't be bothered to even give him a chance at getting their nomination and just basically decided to give him the cold shoulder. And even more importantly I run for VP alongside J.J. because J.J. is talking sense here: we really need to make entry to this game easier for newcomers. Rather than recruiting people off-site, we should make sure that the people who are already here will feel an incentive and potential to enter the game and feel like they have something to contribute. That's why I am running with J.J. to be Vice President of Atlasia.

[tmthforu94]

Rather than recruiting people off-site, we should make sure that the people who are already here will feel an incentive and potential to enter the game and feel like they have something to contribute.

Good Lord...

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As President, I won't be pushing for off-site recruitment, and would not continue the President's task force on it. Teddy and I were both put in charge of off-site recruitment, and while I did manage to get one person to register to the forum, they never even got back on. I'm not quite sure what Teddy did on the matter. However, if a member ever was recruited off-site, I think we should be welcoming of them and give them a fair chance to succeed in this game.

[HappyWarrior]

Yeah, I 100% agree with Belgiansocialist. I like Tmthforu but I think is campaign is far too much concentrated on character for my tastes.

So its a campaign?

[Hash]

tmth is like the Enda Kenny of Atlasia.

QFT. This is like the only useful comment of this trainwreck thread.

[J. J.]

*Sigh*

There's so many different things I could respond to, but I'll try and keep this as brief as possible.

First off, I'm disappointed that you Belgian, that you’re in this race just for the sake of “splitting the left”. You can criticize me all you want, but I’m in this race because I think I can help improve the game. You’re just in the race for political reasons.

You know, I've heard someone suggest that I was in this race to "split the right."  I actually approached someone from RPP to serve as my running mate, with the full understanding that once the reforms were begun, I'd resign.  That person was you.

Now, I have to question how serious about game reform you really are.  Is your campaign about changing the game, or just an effort to grub for votes?

[MyRescueKittehRocks]

*Sigh*

There's so many different things I could respond to, but I'll try and keep this as brief as possible.

First off, I'm disappointed that you Belgian, that you’re in this race just for the sake of “splitting the left”. You can criticize me all you want, but I’m in this race because I think I can help improve the game. You’re just in the race for political reasons.

You know, I've heard someone suggest that I was in this race to "split the right."  I actually approached someone from RPP to serve as my running mate, with the full understanding that once the reforms were begun, I'd resign.  That person was you.

Now, I have to question how serious about game reform you really are.  Is your campaign about changing the game, or just an effort to grub for votes?

Tmth is serious about game reform. So what is your true agenda? What are your plans for game reform? 

[J. J.]

*Sigh*

There's so many different things I could respond to, but I'll try and keep this as brief as possible.

First off, I'm disappointed that you Belgian, that you’re in this race just for the sake of “splitting the left”. You can criticize me all you want, but I’m in this race because I think I can help improve the game. You’re just in the race for political reasons.

You know, I've heard someone suggest that I was in this race to "split the right."  I actually approached someone from RPP to serve as my running mate, with the full understanding that once the reforms were begun, I'd resign.  That person was you.

Now, I have to question how serious about game reform you really are.  Is your campaign about changing the game, or just an effort to grub for votes?

Tmth is serious about game reform. So what is your true agenda? What are your plans for game reform? 

Posted here:  https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=131791.0

[tmthforu94]

*Sigh*

There's so many different things I could respond to, but I'll try and keep this as brief as possible.

First off, I'm disappointed that you Belgian, that you’re in this race just for the sake of “splitting the left”. You can criticize me all you want, but I’m in this race because I think I can help improve the game. You’re just in the race for political reasons.

You know, I've heard someone suggest that I was in this race to "split the right."  I actually approached someone from RPP to serve as my running mate, with the full understanding that once the reforms were begun, I'd resign.  That person was you.

Now, I have to question how serious about game reform you really are.  Is your campaign about changing the game, or just an effort to grub for votes?

I had no time to respond to your pm. I was at my job, and by the time I got back, you had already given it to someone else. I'm sorry I have a life and can't be on this forum 24/7.

[Oakvale]

[J. J.]

*Sigh*

There's so many different things I could respond to, but I'll try and keep this as brief as possible.

First off, I'm disappointed that you Belgian, that you’re in this race just for the sake of “splitting the left”. You can criticize me all you want, but I’m in this race because I think I can help improve the game. You’re just in the race for political reasons.

You know, I've heard someone suggest that I was in this race to "split the right."  I actually approached someone from RPP to serve as my running mate, with the full understanding that once the reforms were begun, I'd resign.  That person was you.

Now, I have to question how serious about game reform you really are.  Is your campaign about changing the game, or just an effort to grub for votes?

I had no time to respond to your pm. I was at my job, and by the time I got back, you had already given it to someone else. I'm sorry I have a life and can't be on this forum 24/7.

Well, I did give you several hours, and I did put out a request earlier in general.  Taoisigh and I had a day's worth of conversations with him.  All the while, someone was trying to persuade me not to run, not to "split the right."  Now I see you claim that the only reason Taoisigh is running is to "split the left."

While ideology is important, so are the practical aspects of government.  I really don't care about the "Left" or the "Right."  I'm concerned with how Atlasia functions.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

J. J. you can't expect someone to respond in a few hours. I have needed to talk with tmth as well about a few things and haven't been on at the same time that he is since Monday. Sometimes it takes 24 to 36 hours or more to get a response from some people. Don't assume that they aren't going to respond or aren't interested in what you are saying because you haven't gotten a response in 2 hours. Unless you are on AIM with someone, there should be no expectation of communication "in real time". You have to be more accomodating of other people's availability and time.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

This thread has totally lost me...

...but back to the original post: Conservatives/Republicans have a tough time winning in Atlasia. Off the top of my head, only three Republicans have been elected (PBrunsel, Colin, and Phil), and Colin was a bit of a RINO, and Phil had a unity ticket that got him some liberal voters. So really,  PBrunsel was the only all-R ticket to ever win in 7 years of Atlasia. Tmth's strategy was obviously to sit back and let the left's feuds tear itself apart--and I honestly can't say that was a bad strategy, but considering the changing circumstances, he might want to try something else.

I've become very disappointed with the RPP, both in terms of conduct and policy, obviously.  Since I announced I was planning to resign in weeks after being elected, and the RPP is obviously trying to look reformist, now, I'm surprised no one wanted to be my VP candidate. 

Is this snatching defeat from the jaws of victory?

This is just ridiculous and demonstrates once again your lack of understanding and depth on this.

1. Tmth's campaign /= the RPP.


He is the RPP candidate and he gets to call the shots as far as his campaign goes. He doesn't however make "party strategy" which implies a more long term, broad-based approach then the tactical efforts involved in a single campaign.  Tmth has a voice on long term RPP stategy, but his voice is just as loud as yours would have been had you choose to excersize it, which you didn't. So spare me the complaints about how the RPP mistreated you or victimized you.

2. One can't judge the apple, until he hath first partaketh of it. You have not.


3. I don't know who you contacted or why you choose to contact them, but isn't it kind of ridiculous to expect people who have already decided to back one guy, to abandon him just because you ask them to be Veep.  Who they choose to support has nothing to do with whether you have a right to run, as BelgianSocialist just ridiculously claimed. You do have a right to run and they have a right to stand by their previous endorsements or campaigns if they are the candidate should they choose to do so. I thought you were the one complaining about freedom of association not being respected.


4. There is no snatching defeat here. Anybody who seriously claims this fact is insulting the intelligence of every self-respecting, independent minded Atlasian. This claim is pure propaganda to jin up Leftwing turnout. Since liberals dominate the elections in this game, it is necessary to create a false hysteria over non-existant center right advantage or edge to ensure that their peeps turn out and piss on cue. I am surprised JJ, you would be so easily taken in by this garbage. Look at the numbers, or look at bgwah's post. The truth is completely transparent to anyone who ceases to engage in the willfull suspension of disbelief.

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I'll try to defend myself: yes, part of why I run is because I think J.J. might hurt the right's chances to get elected, but it's not the main reason. I run for VP alongside J.J. because noone else would and because I think he should be able to run for President, even if his own party couldn't be bothered to even give him a chance at getting their nomination and just basically decided to give him the cold shoulder. And even more importantly I run for VP alongside J.J. because J.J. is talking sense here: we really need to make entry to this game easier for newcomers. Rather than recruiting people off-site, we should make sure that the people who are already here will feel an incentive and potential to enter the game and feel like they have something to contribute. That's why I am running with J.J. to be Vice President of Atlasia.

WHat the hell are you talking about. You obviously haven't the slightest idea. I offered to hold an endorsement vote but both candidates had to agree to drop out if they lost. WHICH YOUR DAMN PARTY INSISTED ON AS WELL GOD DAMN IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! J. J. refused the offer. What more do I have to offer him to not be considered as "giving him the cold shoulder"? I gave him a chance to compete for the endorsement and he declined. I am sick and tired of the sympathy card being played here. I not only asked J. J. but encouraged that he became an active Atlasian back in 2009. He refused and in his exact words, "insisted on being a zombie voter" to which I responded that I hoped he would change his mind. I can't force someone to take the initiative or motivate them to get active. I can ask and encourage and that is what I did.

To be honest (and I realize you weren't here), but this sounds all to damn familiar. When Hamilton formed the ARC (the original name of the Populares), he trodded out Libertas and a bunch of other former RPPers to complain that we were using them and didn't care about them or offer them any opportunities for advancement. How can you offer a job to someone who is inactive? And all the leftist fell for this then, except for one, Marokai Blue, who ignored it and focused on Hamilton's actions and activities, which is where the real scandal was. Once again this is being propagated and exaggerated and used as a tool in the Presidential campaign. It's disengenious, it's false, and it's reprehensible to engage in this activity.

There is no choice here that has be made. You are creating a false dichotomy here. The game needs ethical people with vibrant, energetic initiative. Why should we then limit our potential poll of new people? As far as I know Tmth will still recruit people of the forum at-large, just like the current liberal JCP administration is doing. But at the same time, just like the current administration, he won't pass up other opportunities as well. Since you seem to want it so badly, Belgian, why don't you tell us (in detail how you plan to motivate activity) how you can instill motivation and iniative into someone who isn't interested? My opinion is that it has to come from within. There is no amount of childish talk or downright babying that will give them what you claim to "want to focus on". You can facilitate and create an environment most conducive to cultivating activity. But you can't create activity itself, you can't legislate it.

Everyone is on board with more user friendly this and that. Frankly this too is familiar. The past two years, we have done countless things to make this place more user friendly and yet here we are again complaining about how unwelcoming it is or how difficult it is. I seriously doubt that much effort in this matter will change the reality of the situation. The wiki will still be a mess, and the Introduction impossible to comprehend or understand or whatever the hell the complaints are about that.

[tmthforu94]

Well, I did give you several hours, and I did put out a request earlier in general.  Taoisigh and I had a day's worth of conversations with him.  All the while, someone was trying to persuade me not to run, not to "split the right."  Now I see you claim that the only reason Taoisigh is running is to "split the left."

While ideology is important, so are the practical aspects of government.  I really don't care about the "Left" or the "Right."  I'm concerned with how Atlasia functions.

Most job shifts usually last more than an hour or two.

If you really don't care about the left or right, then why are you running with someone who's only in this race to try and divide the right?


Oh, and I guess I should be prepared for attacks to come now because Yankee is joining in on the discussion. Looks like my "stormfront thugs" or whatever silly name you branded my supporters are here.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Well, I did give you several hours, and I did put out a request earlier in general.  Taoisigh and I had a day's worth of conversations with him.  All the while, someone was trying to persuade me not to run, not to "split the right."  Now I see you claim that the only reason Taoisigh is running is to "split the left."

While ideology is important, so are the practical aspects of government.  I really don't care about the "Left" or the "Right."  I'm concerned with how Atlasia functions.

Most job shifts usually last more than an hour or two.

If you really don't care about the left or right, then why are you running with someone who's only in this race to try and divide the right?


Oh, and I guess I should be prepared for attacks to come now because Yankee is joining in on the discussion. Looks like my "stormfront thugs" or whatever silly name you branded my supporters are here.

Its gets worse, I hath come with the horns and wings.

[Insula Dei]

Tmth, I'm sorry if you're upset with someone criticizing your campaign. Obviously this is something that's completely unacceptable in a real election,...

Actually, no, I won't go down that road and make this post bitter and harsh in tone. I frankly don't care whether you or the RPP choose to run an 'Enda Kenny campaign'. If you want to run an invisible campaign in order to afterwards eat the fruits of a divided left determined to implode. What I do not understand is the way you take any criticism of that campaign, reacting angry and not to the point. You point out a post where you say you won't make any personal attacks yourself and say that's a valid condemnation of what wormyguy said about Marokai. While I certainly appreciate that you seem to agree about the unacceptability of wormyguy's comments, your post actually isn't about these comments but about the bitter conflict the left was being divided by and about harsh words in general. But I won't keep dwelling on that sort of things, because I honestly don't want to make this into an all-out battle.

What I do find bizarre however Tmth is your remark in a PM to me, that you feel a lot of 'agression'  towards me. I'm sorry, but I don't understand. Why on earth would you feel agression towards me? What's my mortal sin, beyond having had the audacity to disagree with you on a few points? Why do you seem convinced that I'm upset with you, just because I voice my concern about some of the things I've read coming from your campaign? Like I said in my PM to you Tmth, this is an election, not a coronation. People are going to disagree about things, and that's not always personal. I still think you're a nice guy, honestly, and I think you're usually very polite.

So what am I supposed to do? Not say anything when I'm concerned about the way you're campaigning and the policies you're embracing? (Also, something about heath and a kitchen)

[tmthforu94]

I'm not upset at all, first off. I'm annoyed. I don't mind campaign criticisms, I welcome it. But many of the criticism you are giving are either a) completely unrelated to my campaign, b) already clarified in my campaign thread/debates. I think it's extremely unclassy of you to be only running to split the right. Tell me, how is a socialist going to help split the right? You've united us more than anything, and many on here realize how pathetic this all is.

I would argue right now that I've ran the most active and have talked more about policy than any other candidate in this race. However, I expected the left to still attack me for not being policy-related, picking up on a theme Marokai tried to use over and over again. I was expecting this, especially if there was any chance I may win, because Dave forbid a non-liberal ever becomes President again.

As apparently you don‘t read anything I say, again, here was part of the response I gave to Kalwejt’s question regarding Wormy’s comments(notice bolded part):

How would you comment a low-road, smear campaign conducted by Populares member Wormyguy?

Is that a stance Tmthforu94/Dallasfan65 team is approving, or you're disavowing such kind of actions?

My campaign will not engage in the personal attacks that are going on, nor do we approve of them.

I also privately spoke to Wormy about it, as well as apologized to Marokai and let him know what was said does not at all reflect in the views of my campaign. I’m a candidate, not a babysitter. I’m not going to go around scolding anyone who criticizes another ticket, and that’s what you want me to do, too bad. If they get out of hand and make things personal, I’ll say something. But much of you’re argument against me seems to revolve around my supporters, not me.

If you have a problem with a specific position I support, you don’t have to create a bitchfest about it like you did. Just ask me about it in my thread. You’ve asked me questions in there before (which pleased me), and I answered them.

Now, let’s make this campaign about the issues. The left seems to keep chiming this message, even though they’re the ones who seem to be creating all of the drama. There’s currently a debate going on, and I encourage all Atlasians to read what’s happening there. And as always, if anyone has a question, just ask me in my thread, or in pm. Whatever floats your boat.