IDS Budget and Tax Committee

[Yelnoc]

     That looks right, though it should be 0.274 billion. This isn't the UK.

Whoops.  Lol

[Brandon H]

Pentagram Creation Act? Was that really the best way to spend $200 M?

[Associate Justice PiT]

Pentagram Creation Act? Was that really the best way to spend $200 M?

     The idea is to create a tourist attraction to simultaneously boost the regional economy & bring in revenue. I expect that the revenue from that will increase as time goes on & its notoriety increases. Might want to work to speed up the process.

[Yelnoc]

Pentagram Creation Act? Was that really the best way to spend $200 M?

It's quite evil, actually. 

In the meantime, AG, do you want to help us?  We need revenue from cigar and tobacco tax, two things that I wasn'ta ble to find when calculating the cigarette revenue.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     I just realized that our rate is per-cigarette while the rates you were looking at were per-pack. A pack contains 20 cigarettes (I think), so our tax rate is actually $0.88/pack. Running the computation again with that, I get $6,034,000,000/year for revenue from cigarette taxes.

[Yelnoc]

    I just realized that our rate is per-cigarette while the rates you were looking at were per-pack. A pack contains 20 cigarettes (I think), so our tax rate is actually $0.88/pack. Running the computation again with that, I get $6,034,000,000/year for revenue from cigarette taxes.

Great, thanks.  I updated the sheet and re-posted it below for convenience.

[Yelnoc]

2011 Budget

Regional Spending

Pensions
-Base: $0

Health care:
-Base: $0

Education:
-Base: $0
-Tertiary Education/Other Capital Outlay-Higher Education/Southeastern Educational Incentive Act: $3.5 billion
-Pre-Primary through Secondary Education/Other Capital Outlay - Elementary and Secondary Education/School Choice Initiative: $56.4 billion
-Total: $59.9 billion

Defense:
-Base: $0

Welfare:
-Base: $0

Protection:
-Base: $0

Transportation:
-Base: $0

General government:
-Base: $0

Other spending:
-Base: $0
-Cultural Services/Pentagram Creation Act: $200 million (1 time expense)
-Total: 200 million

Interest:
-Base: $?

Balance:
-Base: -$?

Σ
-Base: $0
-Total: 61.1 billion

Regional Revenue

Income Taxes:
-Base: $0
-Corporate Income Tax/Tax-Corporate Net Income/Put the "free" back in Free Enterprise Bill: 32.5 billion
-Corporate Income Tax/Tax-Corporate Net Income/Southeast Nuclear Energy Initiative, Chapter 4: -66.1 million (-0.0661 billion)
-Corporate Tax Rate: 8.6% (part of Free Enterprise Bill above - remember other provisions).
-Personal Income Tax Rate: 0% (none)
-Total: $32.4339 billion ($32,433,900,000)

Social Security Taxes:  
-Base: $0

Ad-valorem Taxes:
-Base: $0
-Excise Taxes/Tax-Alcoholic Beverage Sales/Southeast Alcohol Initiative, Section 8: $1.3127 billion ($1.00/proof liter or $0.385/gallon for beer, $0.909/gallon for wine, $3.31/gallon for spirits)
-Excise Taxes/Tax-Tobacco Products Sales/Southeast Tobacco Initiative, Section 6:  $0.04/cigarette ($6,034,000,000/year), $0.08/cigar ($80,000,000/year), $2.00/kg tobacco ($24,000,000/year)
-Excise Taxes/Tax-Marijuana Products Sales: $3.00/ounce ($48,000,000/year)
-Sales Taxes/Tax-Public Utilities Sale/Southeast Nuclear Energy Initiative, Chapter 4: 80% of standard electricity excise tax: $0
-Sales Taxes/Tax-Public Utilities Sale/Southeast Biomass Initiative, Section 3: 80% of standard electricity excise tax: $0
-Property Taxes/Tax-Property/Southeast Nuclear Energy Initiative, Chapter 4
-Transportation/Tax-Motor Fuel Sales/Transportation Commission Initiative, Chapter 3, Section 22: $0.08/liter
-Transportation/Tax-Motor Vehicle License/Fair Consequences Initiative, Section 3
-License/Tax-Other License/Off-Shore Religious Organizations Initiative, Section 2
-Total: ?

Fees and Charges:
-Base: $0
-Other/Charges-All Other/Pentagram Creation Act: $5,700,000/year
-Other/Charges-All Other/Safe Roads Initiative, Section 6: $44,400,000/year
-Total: $50,100,000 ($0.0501 billion)

Business and Other Revenue:
-Base: $0
-Other/Miscellaneous-Net Lottery Revenue/Southeast Lottery Regulations, Section 6 (Amended by Expanding Choice Initiative)
-Total: ?

Total Direct Revenue:
-base: $0

Gross Public Debt:
-Base: $0

State Spending

Pensions
-Base: $3.81 billion

Health care:
-Base: $121.9 billion

Education:
-Base: $0 billion (pre-Educational Hotfix Act)
-Base: $48.9 billion (post-Educational Hotfix Act - original figure was $73.4 billion)
-Total: $48.9 billion

Defense:
-Base: $0.6 billion

Welfare:
-Base: $40.4 billion

Protection:
-Base: $21.5 billion

Transportation:
-Base: $28.2 billion

General government:
-Base: $7.4 billion

Other spending:
-Base: $18.7 billion

Interest:
-Base: $7.4 billion

Balance:
-Base: -$4.4 billion

Σ
-Base: $352.1 billion

State Revenue

Income Taxes:
-Base: $35.6 billion
-Corporate Tax Rate: ?
-Personal Income Tax Rate: ?
-Total: ?

Social Security Taxes:  
-Base: $15.1 billion

Ad-valorem Taxes:
-Base: $252.3 billion

Fees and Charges:
-Base: $107 billion

Business and Other Revenue:
-Base: $132.5 billion

Total Direct Revenue:
-base: $544.5 billion

Gross Public Debt:
-Base: $598.7 billion

[Associate Justice PiT]

     The fees & charges total is actually $0.0501 billion.

[Yelnoc]

     The fees & charges total is actually $0.0501 billion.

That's what I meant.  I'm glad you're here to spot these mistakes.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     The fees & charges total is actually $0.0501 billion.

That's what I meant.  I'm glad you're here to spot these mistakes.

     Happy to be of service. Conversion errors are always easy to make.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     According to this report, more than 5 billion cigars were consumed nationwide in 2006. If we assume ~1 billion for the IDS, at $0.08/cigar, that gives us cigar tax revenue of roughly $80,000,000/year.

      No precise numbers are given for later years, though according to the article a bill passed by Congress IRL in 2009 vastly increased the national cigar tax, which has dealt a severe blow to the cigar industry. No such bill was passed in Atlasia, so the most recent figures would actually not be that accurate for our purposes.

[Yelnoc]

     According to this report, more than 5 billion cigars were consumed nationwide in 2006. If we assume ~1 billion for the IDS, at $0.08/cigar, that gives us cigar tax revenue of roughly $80,000,000/year.

      No precise numbers are given for later years, though according to the article a bill passed by Congress IRL in 2009 vastly increased the national cigar tax, which has dealt a severe blow to the cigar industry. No such bill was passed in Atlasia, so the most recent figures would actually not be that accurate for our purposes.

Good, good.  Assuming that "tobacco" refers to smokeless tobacco, this report should be of use.  The data is old (1997) but should be ok for our purposes.  It states more than 121 million pounds of smokeless tobacco was consumed in 1997.  Let's round up and assume the IDS consumes 25 million pounds or  11,363,636.4 kg.  For simplicitie's sake (and to compensate for the old data), let's make that 12 million kg.  So 12,000,000 at $2 is $24,000,000/year.

Now, onto Marijuana revenues.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Thanks for finding that. I was looking for that data, but without much success. "Loose tobacco" doesn't appear to be a term that sees much use, so we probably won't find anything better for it.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     I found this site estimating the revenue that would be raised from legalizing & taxing marijuana. Granted the organization behind it is obviously very much biased towards doing such a thing, though it's better than nothing.

     The IDS has roughly twice the population of California, but a much lower proportion of marijuana-users for obvious reasons. For simplicity's sake I'll assume they have roughly the same amount of marijuana use in absolute numbers.

     Now the site gives $770-900 million as an estimate for the yearly revenue of a $50/ounce tax on marijuana. As I said, they are rather bullish for this sort of thing, so I'll err on the low end at $800 million. The regional tax is $3/ounce, which gives us $48,000,000/year.

     I know that our tax is much lower than what they suggest, but I don't think a $50/ounce tax could actually work. I read on another site (forget what it is, though I could look for it) that the average street price of marijuana is ~$220/ounce, with the lowest-grade versions costing ~$90/ounce. Well, how many legal substances can you think of that are that expensive, other than precious metals like gold? Black market prices are inevitably higher than regular market prices due to the high demand relative to supply that fuels them along with the danger inherent to them. If marijuana is legalized, then the price of it should drop to a more reasonable figure. I'm not sure what that figure would be, though $3/ounce seems like a good guess for a tax to assign to that figure.

[Yelnoc]

I don't know how we are going to find revenue figures for Mary Jane.  There are no real-life US examples we can base it off of.  Did the initiative in question simply decriminalize it or did it make all aspects of Cannabis (possession, sale, transportation, and cultivation) legal?

EDIT:
That's reasonable, added.

[Yelnoc]

Now on to the Nuclear Initiative Part II.  I think you might have posted the standard electricity excise tax in the beginning of the thread; I will have to go look.

-Sales Taxes/Tax-Public Utilities Sale/Southeast Nuclear Energy Initiative, Chapter 4: 80% of standard electricity excise tax

EDIT:
Looks like we don't save a standard electricity excise tax
 
Should we pass something in the legislature to retcon this?

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Don't have time to look right now, but per the Unified Law Code Initiative our electricity excise tax should be the same as it is over in Georgia. If it turns out there is none there, then we can either make one or just leave it stand at $0.

[Yelnoc]

     Don't have time to look right now, but per the Unified Law Code Initiative our electricity excise tax should be the same as it is over in Georgia. If it turns out there is none there, then we can either make one or just leave it stand at $0.

This site had the following to offer on the subject.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I say we just assume that the electric excise tax is 0% for simplicity and void related initiatives.

[Badger]

Alabama's (Personal) Income tax Rates:

If your income range is between $0 and $500, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 2%.
If your income range is between $501 and $3,000, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 4%.
If your income range is $3,000 and over, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 5%.


Arkansas's (Personal) Income tax Rates:

If your income range is between $0 and $3,700, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 1%.
If your income range is between $3,701 and $7,400, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 2.5%.
If your income range is between $7,401 and $11,100, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 3.5%.
If your income range is between $11,101 and $18,600, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 4.5%.
If your income range is between $18,601 and $31,000, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 6%.
If your income range is $31,000 and over, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 7%.


Florida: No Personal Income Tax


Georgia's (Personal) Income tax Rates:

If your income range is between $0 and $750, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 1%.
If your income range is between $751 and $2,250, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 2%.
If your income range is between $2,251 and $3,750, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 3%.
If your income range is between $3,751 and $5,250, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 4%.
If your income range is between $5,251 and $7,000, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 5%.
If your income range is $7,001 and over, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 6%.


Louisiana's (Personal) Income tax Rates:

If your income range is between $0 and $12,500, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 2%.
If your income range is between $12,501 and $50,000, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 4%.
If your income range is $50,001 and over, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 6%.


Mississippi's (Personal) Income tax Rates:

If your income range is between $0 and $5,000, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 3%.
If your income range is between $5,001 and $10,000, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 4%.
If your income range is $10,001 and over, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 5%.


North Carolina's (Personal) Income tax Rates:

If your income range is between $0 and $12,750, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 6%.
If your income range is between $12,751 and $60,000, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 7%.
If your income range is $60,001 and over, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 7.75%.


South Carolina's (Personal) Income tax Rates:

If your income range is between $0 and $2,630, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 0%.
If your income range is between $2,631 and $5,260, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 3%.
If your income range is between $5,261 and $7,890, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 4%.
If your income range is between $7,891 and $10,520, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 5%.
If your income range is between $10,521 and $13,150, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 6%.
If your income range is $13,151 and over, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 7%.


Tennessee's (Personal) Income tax Rates:

If your income range is $0 and over, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 6%.


Texas: No Personal Income Tax

The GM Office's analysis of the IDS income tax rates compared to RL, and according revenue produced is as follows:

I roughly calculated the RL income tax rate in IDS states to equal approximately a 3.35% flat rate. This was done by estimating the "average" overall tax rate of those states with graduated rates, then averaging each state by population weight. Needless to say, Texas and FL having no income tax rate and about half the region's population greatly dragged down the average.

Accordingly, by calculating the RL income tax rates as producing $35.6 Billion, I've similarly calculated that the proposed (or current?) IDS flat tax rate of 6% would produce $63.75 Bil. This should help somewhat with budgeting, eh?

Two important points: First please note that the website we've been using (a real tea party fest there if anyone wishes to accuse me of allowing my own views to color the numbers ) states that $35.6 Billion is for both personal and corporate income tax. Please advise ASAP if the IDS corporate income tax rate is substantially different than the personal rate. If so, I'm afraid I may need help in figuring out the RL corporate rates as Yelnoc did before with individual rates in order to estimate corporate revenue. Otherwise, I'm willing to assume a regional flat 6% rate on corporate income too, and happily willing to also assume the windfall described is applicable here.

Secondly, I've lost track a bit with the discussion. Please advise ASAP if there is something else you need the GM's Office to do an analysis of. Thanks!

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Our tax rate is nearly flat, but I approximated it as being flat. Unless otherwise specified by statute, our laws are those of Georgia c.2006. As you can see from Yelnoc's post that you quoted, Georgia's income tax is actually split into six brackets, but they are all at such low incomes that the ultimate effect is close to that of a flat tax.

     Anyway, the IDS corporate income tax rate is 8.6%. I've noticed that that's actually a bit high for a sub-national government, though, so I would be happy to assist by reducing it to 6%.

[Badger]

     Our tax rate is nearly flat, but I approximated it as being flat. Unless otherwise specified by statute, our laws are those of Georgia c.2006. As you can see from Yelnoc's post that you quoted, Georgia's income tax is actually split into six brackets, but they are all at such low incomes that the ultimate effect is close to that of a flat tax.

     Anyway, the IDS corporate income tax rate is 8.6%. I've noticed that that's actually a bit high for a sub-national government, though, so I would be happy to assist by reducing it to 6%.

I guesstimated (generously) that GA's rate would equate about a 5.8% flat rate with the lower rates. Let me know if the IDS decides to accept that over a 6% flat rate. If so, the revenue would be $61.65 Bil instead.

Or we can keep an 8.6% corporate rate and not only call it even, but also raise the GM Office's revenue estimates upwards further.

[Yelnoc]

Thank you very much Badger.  So in summary, $35.6 Billion is the income from all state personal and corporate income taxes combined.  $63.75 Billion would be the regional income if the IDS had a 6% corporate and personal income tax rate.  Correct?

The first part I went ahead and added to the budget.  Unfortunately, the IDS has an 8.6 corporate tax rate while our personal income tax is the aggregate of Georgia's tax.  I suppose we could pass legislation to fix this; we'll have to discuss this.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     5.8% should be fine, unless we want to change that as well.

     The corporate income tax is problematic insofar as it makes us uncompetitive when regions like the Mideast have graduated rates that max out at 5%. If we lowered the corporate income tax rate to 5.8%, it would simplify the budget process & help the region's economy.

[Yelnoc]

     5.8% should be fine, unless we want to change that as well.

     The corporate income tax is problematic insofar as it makes us uncompetitive when regions like the Mideast have graduated rates that max out at 5%. If we lowered the corporate income tax rate to 5.8%, it would simplify the budget process & help the region's economy.

Sure.  We'll have to go through the legislature I suppose.  Should the bill set both income taxes at 5.8% or just corporate?

[Associate Justice PiT]

     5.8% should be fine, unless we want to change that as well.

     The corporate income tax is problematic insofar as it makes us uncompetitive when regions like the Mideast have graduated rates that max out at 5%. If we lowered the corporate income tax rate to 5.8%, it would simplify the budget process & help the region's economy.

Sure.  We'll have to go through the legislature I suppose.  Should the bill set both income taxes at 5.8% or just corporate?

     Income taxes are already 5.8%, so that's not a problem.