IDS Budget and Tax Committee
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Associate Justice PiT
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« on: February 13, 2011, 06:31:25 PM »

     Since we have just created his body, I think it's only proper that a thread be created for it. The Emperor & Imperial Speaker shall be co-chairs, but any elected regional official may take a seat (up to five total). Furthermore, any citizen of the region is welcome to aid in the process.

     The purpose of this committee is to ascertain the region's current tax rates & expenditures, so as to formulate a budget for the region. At the beginning of the next legislative session in late March, we will have to decide on whether or not to keep this as a permanent entity in the regional government.
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Yelnoc
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« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2011, 06:47:17 PM »

Thank you, Emperor PiT, for setting this up.  I want to apologize for my absence; I haven't had time for much else than a few posts in the 2012 forum this week.  I don't have much to report on the budget as of yet.

As the first action of this body, I propose that each co-chair present his findings in this thread one day out of every week, effective this week.  This way, the committee won't slip our minds quite as easily.

To the citizens of the IDS: Please Help!  This is a big task; we need all the help we can get.  If you remember reading somewhere about something related to the South/Southeast/Dirty South/Imperial Dominion of the South's budget, please let us know.

With that said, may the fun begin!
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2011, 06:54:56 PM »

     I am fine with that proposal. Actually, I think I might make one post at the beginning of each week & edit it to include any new findings as the week progresses. That should be a good way to keep my thoughts organized.
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Yelnoc
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« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2011, 06:56:37 PM »

     I am fine with that proposal. Actually, I think I might make one post at the beginning of each week & edit it to include any new findings as the week progresses. That should be a good way to keep my thoughts organized.
Sounds great.

I was looking through wiki and, unless I read it wrong, the only laws cataloged are initiatives.  I realize this is probably outside the scope of this committee but, if that's correct, something must be done to update it.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2011, 06:59:26 PM »

     I am fine with that proposal. Actually, I think I might make one post at the beginning of each week & edit it to include any new findings as the week progresses. That should be a good way to keep my thoughts organized.
Sounds great.

I was looking through wiki and, unless I read it wrong, the only laws cataloged are initiatives.  I realize this is probably outside the scope of this committee but, if that's correct, something must be done to update it.

     Indeed, not a single law has been catalogued since the creation of the Legislature. I have a lot to do this weekend, but I'll try to get at least a couple of laws up on the Wiki.
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Yelnoc
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« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2011, 07:06:49 PM »

     I am fine with that proposal. Actually, I think I might make one post at the beginning of each week & edit it to include any new findings as the week progresses. That should be a good way to keep my thoughts organized.
Sounds great.

I was looking through wiki and, unless I read it wrong, the only laws cataloged are initiatives.  I realize this is probably outside the scope of this committee but, if that's correct, something must be done to update it.

     Indeed, not a single law has been catalogued since the creation of the Legislature. I have a lot to do this weekend, but I'll try to get at least a couple of laws up on the Wiki.
Sounds good.  Do you, by any chance, know where to find the old legislative threads?  Search didn't turn up anything.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2011, 07:31:52 PM »

Interesting endeavour.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2011, 07:58:16 PM »

     I am fine with that proposal. Actually, I think I might make one post at the beginning of each week & edit it to include any new findings as the week progresses. That should be a good way to keep my thoughts organized.
Sounds great.

I was looking through wiki and, unless I read it wrong, the only laws cataloged are initiatives.  I realize this is probably outside the scope of this committee but, if that's correct, something must be done to update it.

     Indeed, not a single law has been catalogued since the creation of the Legislature. I have a lot to do this weekend, but I'll try to get at least a couple of laws up on the Wiki.
Sounds good.  Do you, by any chance, know where to find the old legislative threads?  Search didn't turn up anything.

     Prior to the creation of the Imperial Legislature, except for a universal legislature that briefly existed in 2006, all laws were passed by referendum. You should be able to find all of the old voting booths looking on the Voting Booth board.
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« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2011, 12:59:26 PM »

Heartily endorsed! This is something I hope all regions will undertake in some form in the foreseeable future.

Please let me know how the GM's Office can be of assistance.
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Yelnoc
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« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2011, 05:23:52 PM »

Heartily endorsed! This is something I hope all regions will undertake in some form in the foreseeable future.

Please let me know how the GM's Office can be of assistance.

Thank you.  If you happen to be looking through any old papers in your office that have (one of the south's many) names on it and a $ figure next to the name, please let us know. 
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Yelnoc
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« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2011, 05:25:51 PM »
« Edited: March 20, 2011, 01:02:34 PM by Imperial Speaker Yelnoc »

Cataloging the Legislature

My first step will be to catalog every spending bill passed by the Southeast/IDS legislature.  I'll edit this post.  PiT, if you would do the same for the initiatives I would be very grateful.

*     *     *

Imperial Dominion of the South's Legislature

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-page 13; April 18, 2010

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-page 17; May 11, 2010*

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page 33; July 23, 2010*

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-page 44; September 23, 2010*

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-page 58; November 28, 2010
NOTE: This is the Highway Fund from the federal government (I think)

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-page 59' November 20, 2010

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-page 60; December 1, 2010

2010 Federal Stimulus Act
-page 61 (old copy); December 3, 2010

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-page 61; December 5, 2010
NOTE: This somehow ties in with the 2010 Federal Stimulus Act (How?)

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-page 68; December 30, 2010
NOTE: With the passage of this bill, $300 million is left from money allocated by the Federal Government for infrastructure projects
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2011, 05:53:28 PM »

     Alright, I'll look through the initiatives later today. I plan on getting a bunch of bills up tonight, so looking for any taxation provisions in the initiatives shouldn't be a problem.
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Yelnoc
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« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2011, 06:59:41 PM »

My first post exceeded the 11,000 character limit so below is the rest of it.  So that's everything money-related in the Legislative thread.  I did notice some bills without any monetary specifications but budgetary implications (just about everything that doesn't have to do with the rules, function and names of government).  Do I need to go back and log all of that so it can be taken into account when we create the budget or can we just use Georgia law in these grey areas.  Also, when it comes to our baseline tax revenue, should it be based off the actual total population of the United States southeast or should be use a mathematical equation based on our in-game population to arrive at that total?


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-page 73; January 20, 2011
NOTE: I'm feeling quite stimulated Wink


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-page 16; April 29, 2010
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2011, 03:26:02 AM »
« Edited: February 15, 2011, 03:45:35 AM by Emperor PiT »

     Section 6 of the Southeast Lottery Regulations, adopted on November 5, 2004, as amended by the Expanding Choice Initiative, passed on July 18, 2005:
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     Sections 3-6 of the Excise Tax Administration Initiative, passed on January 24, 2005:
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     Not sure yet what relevance this has, if any, since I am not aware of any excises with program funds passed in the region. I guess I will find out soon, though.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2011, 03:31:15 AM »

Also, when it comes to our baseline tax revenue, should it be based off the actual total population of the United States southeast or should be use a mathematical equation based on our in-game population to arrive at that total?

     For the stimulus bills, I came up with apportionment figures for the states based on the assumption that their populations were the same as in real life. As such, for the sake of consistency, I think we should use the actual populations of these states.
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Yelnoc
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« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2011, 05:51:02 PM »

Also, when it comes to our baseline tax revenue, should it be based off the actual total population of the United States southeast or should be use a mathematical equation based on our in-game population to arrive at that total?

     For the stimulus bills, I came up with apportionment figures for the states based on the assumption that their populations were the same as in real life. As such, for the sake of consistency, I think we should use the actual populations of these states.
Sounds good.  I was thinking, if this is just a one-time thing it will be a complete waste.  Once we have our budget, tax, and debt figures, we should maintain them.  Thus, I propose we eventually repeal the law that the repealed the Regional Budget Creation Initiative (or preferably write our own).  The budget could (and should) be based off the previous years so we don't have to write up a new one and can be compiled by the Attorney General and Governor and then ratified by the Legislature.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2011, 06:00:27 PM »

Also, when it comes to our baseline tax revenue, should it be based off the actual total population of the United States southeast or should be use a mathematical equation based on our in-game population to arrive at that total?

     For the stimulus bills, I came up with apportionment figures for the states based on the assumption that their populations were the same as in real life. As such, for the sake of consistency, I think we should use the actual populations of these states.
Sounds good.  I was thinking, if this is just a one-time thing it will be a complete waste.  Once we have our budget, tax, and debt figures, we should maintain them.  Thus, I propose we eventually repeal the law that the repealed the Regional Budget Creation Initiative (or preferably write our own).  The budget could (and should) be based off the previous years so we don't have to write up a new one and can be compiled by the Attorney General and Governor and then ratified by the Legislature.

     I do agree that maintaining a regional budget would be a good idea, though I don't like the original initiative. Rather than repealing its repeal, I'd suggest an altogether new bill in its vein. We don't have a statute-as-amended, recall. Tongue
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« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2011, 06:34:05 PM »

Let me offer some general ideas for a framework based on what the Mideast has done. I emphasize "general" and "framework" as the IDS will characteristically do its own thing. Wink

Check out the links in the following posts in the budget thread:

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=128143.msg2756417#msg2756417
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=128143.msg2769048#msg2769048
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=128143.msg2774577#msg2774577
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=128143.msg2789445#msg2789445
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=128143.msg2789731#msg2789731

The benefit here is it allows comparison to real life for several broad spending and taxing catagories. The structure makes it relatively simple to assess the results of taxing and spending decisions based on RL comparison. The actual taxing and spending levels within that framework are 100% your own.

Thoughts?
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Yelnoc
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« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2011, 09:14:52 PM »

Let me offer some general ideas for a framework based on what the Mideast has done. I emphasize "general" and "framework" as the IDS will characteristically do its own thing. Wink

Check out the links in the following posts in the budget thread:

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=128143.msg2756417#msg2756417
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=128143.msg2769048#msg2769048
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=128143.msg2774577#msg2774577
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=128143.msg2789445#msg2789445
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=128143.msg2789731#msg2789731

The benefit here is it allows comparison to real life for several broad spending and taxing catagories. The structure makes it relatively simple to assess the results of taxing and spending decisions based on RL comparison. The actual taxing and spending levels within that framework are 100% your own.

Thoughts?
Phew!

That's a lot.  A very good suggestion but it will take some work.  Looking down that list, I noticed categories that the SE has never past spending bills related to.  Should we assume that we were spending in these categories during the past few years or not?  If we don't, we will have an unrealistically large surplus without any of the negatives associated with not spending any money in some of the categories.  However, that seems like a bit of a realism killer.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2011, 04:22:39 AM »
« Edited: February 16, 2011, 04:48:23 AM by Emperor PiT »

     Southeast Alcohol Initiative, Section 8, as passed on February 21, 2005:
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     Southeast Tobacco Initiative, Section 6, as passed on February 21, 2005:
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     Southeast Nuclear Energy Initiative, Chapter 4, as passed on February 21, 2005:
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     Southeast Biomass Initiative, Section 3, as passed on February 21, 2005:
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     Transportation Commission Initiative, Chapter 2, Sections 14 & 15, & Chapter 3, Section 22, as passed on March 21, 2005:
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     Fair Consequences Initiative, Section 3, as passed on July 18, 2005:
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     Safe Roads Initiative, Section 6, as passed on July 18, 2005:
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     That covers the first 50 initiatives. Some of them imposed fines on various crimes or carried various unenumerated economic implications. I don't think any of them would have a substantial effect on the regional budget though, so I generally neglected them. Once we've completed the main project, it might be a good idea to go back & estimate the little details.
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« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2011, 10:30:04 AM »

Let me offer some general ideas for a framework based on what the Mideast has done. I emphasize "general" and "framework" as the IDS will characteristically do its own thing. Wink

Check out the links in the following posts in the budget thread:

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=128143.msg2756417#msg2756417
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=128143.msg2769048#msg2769048
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=128143.msg2774577#msg2774577
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=128143.msg2789445#msg2789445
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=128143.msg2789731#msg2789731

The benefit here is it allows comparison to real life for several broad spending and taxing categories. The structure makes it relatively simple to assess the results of taxing and spending decisions based on RL comparison. The actual taxing and spending levels within that framework are 100% your own.

Thoughts?
Phew!

That's a lot.  A very good suggestion but it will take some work.  Looking down that list, I noticed categories that the SE has never past spending bills related to.  Should we assume that we were spending in these categories during the past few years or not?  If we don't, we will have an unrealistically large surplus without any of the negatives associated with not spending any money in some of the categories.  However, that seems like a bit of a realism killer.

I would take it that you are spending whatever levels you determine you're spending, regardless of past legislation or lack thereof. In other words, treat this as "year one" for determining how much is being spent in these various categories. However faithful you want to be to prior legislation is up to you guys (and commendable), but don't let the fact the IDS (e.g.) never passed a budget for police and prisons (other than the free range one Wink) stop you all from deciding to appropriate 'X' Billion towards police and prisons. Unless you guys insist otherwise the GM is willing to give a mulligan on prior spending in this category. Wink

That said, I will base the relative level of services provided through a comparison of real life expenditures to whatever you guys appropriate. In other words if RL expenditures for "protection" in the 10 states comprising the IDS are $10 Billion, but the IDS only appropriates $5 Billion, that means the IDS will have to prepare a plan for dealing with half the prisons, guards, parole officers, and state troopers the real world south deals with, and/or suffer whatever ramifications the GM determines would arise from such funding levels.

With that in mind, PiT, I assure you with this economy the LAST thing you guys will have to deal with is "large surpluses". Sad
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2011, 12:34:54 PM »

Let me offer some general ideas for a framework based on what the Mideast has done. I emphasize "general" and "framework" as the IDS will characteristically do its own thing. Wink

Check out the links in the following posts in the budget thread:

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=128143.msg2756417#msg2756417
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=128143.msg2769048#msg2769048
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=128143.msg2774577#msg2774577
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=128143.msg2789445#msg2789445
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=128143.msg2789731#msg2789731

The benefit here is it allows comparison to real life for several broad spending and taxing categories. The structure makes it relatively simple to assess the results of taxing and spending decisions based on RL comparison. The actual taxing and spending levels within that framework are 100% your own.

Thoughts?
Phew!

That's a lot.  A very good suggestion but it will take some work.  Looking down that list, I noticed categories that the SE has never past spending bills related to.  Should we assume that we were spending in these categories during the past few years or not?  If we don't, we will have an unrealistically large surplus without any of the negatives associated with not spending any money in some of the categories.  However, that seems like a bit of a realism killer.

I would take it that you are spending whatever levels you determine you're spending, regardless of past legislation or lack thereof. In other words, treat this as "year one" for determining how much is being spent in these various categories. However faithful you want to be to prior legislation is up to you guys (and commendable), but don't let the fact the IDS (e.g.) never passed a budget for police and prisons (other than the free range one Wink) stop you all from deciding to appropriate 'X' Billion towards police and prisons. Unless you guys insist otherwise the GM is willing to give a mulligan on prior spending in this category. Wink

That said, I will base the relative level of services provided through a comparison of real life expenditures to whatever you guys appropriate. In other words if RL expenditures for "protection" in the 10 states comprising the IDS are $10 Billion, but the IDS only appropriates $5 Billion, that means the IDS will have to prepare a plan for dealing with half the prisons, guards, parole officers, and state troopers the real world south deals with, and/or suffer whatever ramifications the GM determines would arise from such funding levels.

With that in mind, PiT, I assure you with this economy the LAST thing you guys will have to deal with is "large surpluses". Sad

     Now is not the greatest time to do the budget if you want to get a rosy picture of things, but it is still good to get it done.
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« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2011, 12:52:28 PM »

Let me offer some general ideas for a framework based on what the Mideast has done. I emphasize "general" and "framework" as the IDS will characteristically do its own thing. Wink

Check out the links in the following posts in the budget thread:

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=128143.msg2756417#msg2756417
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=128143.msg2769048#msg2769048
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=128143.msg2774577#msg2774577
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=128143.msg2789445#msg2789445
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=128143.msg2789731#msg2789731

The benefit here is it allows comparison to real life for several broad spending and taxing categories. The structure makes it relatively simple to assess the results of taxing and spending decisions based on RL comparison. The actual taxing and spending levels within that framework are 100% your own.

Thoughts?
Phew!

That's a lot.  A very good suggestion but it will take some work.  Looking down that list, I noticed categories that the SE has never past spending bills related to.  Should we assume that we were spending in these categories during the past few years or not?  If we don't, we will have an unrealistically large surplus without any of the negatives associated with not spending any money in some of the categories.  However, that seems like a bit of a realism killer.

I would take it that you are spending whatever levels you determine you're spending, regardless of past legislation or lack thereof. In other words, treat this as "year one" for determining how much is being spent in these various categories. However faithful you want to be to prior legislation is up to you guys (and commendable), but don't let the fact the IDS (e.g.) never passed a budget for police and prisons (other than the free range one Wink) stop you all from deciding to appropriate 'X' Billion towards police and prisons. Unless you guys insist otherwise the GM is willing to give a mulligan on prior spending in this category. Wink

That said, I will base the relative level of services provided through a comparison of real life expenditures to whatever you guys appropriate. In other words if RL expenditures for "protection" in the 10 states comprising the IDS are $10 Billion, but the IDS only appropriates $5 Billion, that means the IDS will have to prepare a plan for dealing with half the prisons, guards, parole officers, and state troopers the real world south deals with, and/or suffer whatever ramifications the GM determines would arise from such funding levels.

With that in mind, PiT, I assure you with this economy the LAST thing you guys will have to deal with is "large surpluses". Sad

     Now is not the greatest time to do the budget if you want to get a rosy picture of things, but it is still good to get it done.

Amen, brother.
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Yelnoc
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« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2011, 05:01:41 PM »
« Edited: February 16, 2011, 06:00:09 PM by Imperial Speaker Yelnoc »

Regional Revenues

This is the IDS taxation history based on the information from my catalog and PiT's work.  Remember, these are only state taxes; the citizens would also be paying federal taxes (would they be paying state taxes?).

$2 Billion surplus as of April 29, 2010

Corporate Tax
July 1-December 31, 2010: 10%
January 1, 2011-present: 8.6%
All businesses created after May 11, 2010 did not have to pay taxes for the remainder of 2010 and will only pay 5% for 2011; after December 31, 2011 they will pay the full 8.6%.

Excise Taxes
$1.00 per alcoholic beverage
Nuclear and biomass power are 80% less than what it would be under law
$0.08 per liter of liquid fuel
$1.00 fee on driver licenses to pay for Sex Offender Database
$5.00 fee for license plates; one-time only

Sales Taxes
Nuclear power is 10% less than what it would be under law (is there another law related to this?)

Property Taxes
Nuclear power plants pay $50,000 per megawatt generation capacity

Tax Credits
$1,000 to households with full-time student beginning in Fall 2010; only applies to households with income under $250,000
$500 to households with part-time student beginning in Fall 2010; only applies to households with income under $250,000

Miscellaneous
80% of ticket sales from Giant Pentagram
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« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2011, 05:07:57 PM »
« Edited: February 23, 2011, 05:31:27 PM by Imperial Speaker Yelnoc »

Federal Charity

Highway Fund
$15 Billion total (Federal Money)
$750 Million authorized to the IDS

$140 Million for Duke Greenway
$100 Million for Blanche-Lincoln Boulevard


$510 Million authorized
$14,760 Million total (Federal control)


Stimulation Station
$5 Billion for Infrastructure + Sewage and Water treatment/filtration + Power Grid updates and maintenance
$3 Billion for Education
$2 Billion for Coal to Liquid Plants
$400 Million for Wind Power Plants
$500 Million for Solar Power Plants

$5 Billion allocated to the states for infrastructure
$3 Billion spent on Education
$2 Billion spent on Coal to Liquid Plants
$990 Million spent on Worker Retraining Program
$10 Million spent on Regional Building Renovation
$2 Billion spent on Education (Clause 4, Sub-clause B is not a valid part of the 2010 Federal Stimulus Act
$1 Billion for the construction of Coal to Liquid Plants


Balanced- all money spent as allocated.
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