What if the Great Migration never occured?
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  What if the Great Migration never occured?
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Author Topic: What if the Great Migration never occured?  (Read 2941 times)
Nichlemn
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« on: February 14, 2011, 04:52:06 AM »

Great Migration

Assume the African-American population of states today was about the same as it was in 1900. What would be the political impact?

In particular, I think majority black MS and SC would be interesting to analyse, as after the Voting Rights Act passed they would presumably start electing black Governors and Senators. Does that increase the chances of an earlier black President (due to there being higher profile black politicians) or possibly hurt them (if they are perceived as radical and anti-white?)
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Person Man
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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2011, 08:19:38 PM »
« Edited: February 14, 2011, 08:30:51 PM by Sen. Mark Mattenburgh »

This would probably be 2008 if that happened- If we just put all the blacks that migrated back where they were and everything else was the same-



Democrats still do well in states that would still vote Democratic even if there were fewer blacks or states that they won, but don't have
many black people.

or if they started their own party-



Basically, they would have the black belt and civil rights wouldn't have wedged the northern suburbs out of the GOP or the white south out of the Dem coalition.
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RI
realisticidealist
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« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2011, 11:13:05 PM »

Assuming I did my math correctly, if every state had the same percentage of their population be black in 2008 as in 1910, this would be the map:

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Person Man
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« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2011, 11:46:27 PM »

Gee. My rough guess was just off by 5 states. lol. Anyways, I think my voting map would probably be more accurate if the Black Migration didn't change voting behavior or history.
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mianfei
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« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2017, 02:59:47 AM »

It's interesting to speculate what would have happened if the Great Migration never occurred. The question occurred to me on a re-read of Robert Mickey's Paths out of Dixie, because I suspect without it re-enfranchisement of blacks would either:

  • never have occurred even today, or
  • occurred with much greater violence than observed (not necessarily within the Confederacy), and/or
  • involved much more radical political change in the former Confederacy and Oklahoma

The most likely way the Great Migration would have been prevented is if the southern landholders – who had regained absolute control over the black population with Redemption in the 1890s – had been successful in preventing labor scouts from recruiting blacks to move north. Quite likely, this would have meant industry moving to the South, with extremely strong laws to keep the races separate in new industries.

Quite likely this would have meant the South becoming an ultra-low-wage industrial economy making shoddy goods for the globe – a scenario Colin Woodard still sees as a possible future in his book American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America. This scenario might have been economically more devastating for the northern cities blacks actually migrated to than Woodard ever implies similar changes are or could be today. The high technology industries Woodard shows the Northeast (like Europe and East Asia) have come to specialize in would have not developed when the industry left for Dixie. Consequently, unemployment would have increased or wages declined drastically in the North against regime-controlled wages in Dixie.

Possibly this would have made the North more sympathetic to blacks in the South, but it could equally have intensified existing northern racism.
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« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2017, 12:34:26 PM »

How would the 2016 election look with 1910's AA demographics? Also, how would I go about finding that out on my own?
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Flameoguy
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« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2017, 12:01:28 PM »


The most likely way the Great Migration would have been prevented is if the southern landholders – who had regained absolute control over the black population with Redemption in the 1890s – had been successful in preventing labor scouts from recruiting blacks to move north. Quite likely, this would have meant industry moving to the South, with extremely strong laws to keep the races separate in new industries.


Alternatively, another possibility continued black residence in the South would be a successful Reconstruction. The whole reason so many left was because Reconstruction failed and allowed Jim Crow laws to take over. If the Radical concept of '40 acres and a mule' as well as protected voting rights, the South would become an attractive region to black people.
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Shameless Lefty Hack
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« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2017, 05:07:37 PM »
« Edited: July 14, 2017, 05:09:36 PM by Shameless Bernie Hack »


The most likely way the Great Migration would have been prevented is if the southern landholders – who had regained absolute control over the black population with Redemption in the 1890s – had been successful in preventing labor scouts from recruiting blacks to move north. Quite likely, this would have meant industry moving to the South, with extremely strong laws to keep the races separate in new industries.


Alternatively, another possibility continued black residence in the South would be a successful Reconstruction. The whole reason so many left was because Reconstruction failed and allowed Jim Crow laws to take over. If the Radical concept of '40 acres and a mule' as well as protected voting rights, the South would become an attractive region to black people.

I've been weighing writing an Alt Timeline where the PoD culminates in a completed radical/redistributionary Reconstruction. It's probably not election centric enough to work on this forum though.

I think depending on where the PoD is here that stops the Great Migration is strongly affects the material conditions and political dynamics of the South in the hypothetical 2016. I honestly have no idea what would have happened if, in a sense, we gave Jeffersonian Democracy a chance to air itself out in an entire region of the country by redistributing most land to create a small-plot yeomanry. I do think that if you engaged in that sort of leveling and, say, included landless whites as beneficiaries of said redistribution, you wouldn't get the reactionary coalitions that re-imposed racial hierarchy whenever cross-racial political coalitions emerged in the South (Reconstruction, the Populist/Fusion era). No Jim Crow, strong black representation in DC, strong foundations of black ownership in an integrated economy, and equalization of class relations all sound pretty good to me, though. I would imagine that depending on how you dealt with the former slave-owning class would have its own aftereffects and impacts on the region.  

The other scenario (a hyper-repressive South that sort of turns itself into a hermit kingdom) doesn't strike me as particularly realistic, especially once you get, say, the automobile. That said, there is some amount of precedent even within the history of the region itself (cf: the censorship of abolitionists tracts being distributed by the US Mail in the 1830s. A similar tactic was used during WWI nationwide to curtail distribution of socialist magazines in the Wilson administration) for the strategic suppression of information, so I guess it could happen.

In this scenario, I'm not even sure you *get * a VRA. Or if you do, it's really weak. One of the driving factors (other than, you know, a sense of human decency) driving northern Dems and liberal Reps to pursue civil rights laws was the potential voting behavior of black populations in northern cities. One thing that the Caro biographical series on Lyndon Johnson perceptively notes is that the 1957 Civil Rights bill can in many ways be construed as a Johnsonian (or at least Democratic) response to Eisenhower's actions to enforce the Brown decision.

If, rather than potent independent actors with national influence, black people and the question of Civil Rights is viewed as some regional curiosity of limited relevance outside the South, and Dems are not forced to choose between northern urban success and the Solid South, I'm not sure Civil Rights gains traction as an issue.

Maybe this leads to more radical/socialist activism on the part of civil rights leaders (without northern liberals to court, the Liberation struggle maybe opts for the Robert F Williams route than the MLK route). But I don't know how it develops from there. Especially given that the role that the Cold War played in affecting Civil Rights discourse (anyone who advocated for any sort of change in the South was labeled a Communist in REAL LIFE, much less in this timeline, and racial violence and hierarchy was a black mark on the US reputation throughout the world), there are just too many variables to consider on that branch.

But again, I just don't see (once you have trains and cars and radios) how you keep people from just *leaving*. Especially with the policies that theretofore had kept people there.
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