Libya: Benghazi unrest, to Civil War, to a new government and Gaddafi's death.

[opebo]

I'd say that he's lost it but that would imply something less than entirely true.

You mean you hold out hope that he hasn't lost the battle yet?

[opebo]

2.5 of the above down, 1 (or more) to go ...

Quadaffi is pretty cool, you have to admit.  Heck they all were.

[opebo]

Quadaffi is pretty cool, you have to admit.  Heck they all were.

Reminded me of this picture...

Yeah, a bunch of bores (even our president, who quite frankly is a handsome, lanky dude), and Quadaffi, a cool guy for sure.  Medevedeve and Sarkozy look particularly worthless.

[opebo]

Gaddafi is out, obviously. Kind of tragicomical how the international community only joins the bandwagon once it is 100% clear that the Libyan people has done the job on their own.

Well, if he pulls through, we'd still need his oil, wouldn't we?

Precisely.  Nor is their any reason for us to prefer the replacement to Quadaffi.

[opebo]

I wonder if one would be allowed to venture the opinion that it would more more advisable to intervene on the side of Gaddafi or if that would be considered a 'trolling' opinion - or perhaps hateful or something of that nature.

If I were to venture such an observation, it would be based on the many years of reliable oil-delivery the gentleman has to his credit, and the fact that however wonderful the bearded 'democracy activists' or rebel-freedom-fighters may be, they are a complete unknown regarding the oils.

[opebo]

...the many years of reliable oil-delivery the gentleman has to his credit, and the fact that however wonderful the bearded 'democracy activists' or rebel-freedom-fighters may be, they are a complete unknown regarding the oils.

They have no choice but to keep delivering the oils, even if they don't want to. What else are they going to do with it, drink it?

Well, that's a reasonable point, however in allegiance with new bearded governments which seem definitely to be coming in Bahrain, Oman, and no doubt down the road in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, and Iraq, coupled with the already-extant bearded regime in Iran, it is easy to imagine a kind of concerted effort to strangulate the infidels.  After all, selling 80% of the oil at twice the price does equal more revenue, and you get the added enjoyment of seeing america collapse again.

[opebo]

France recognizes Libya's rebel leadership in Benghazi as the official government of Libya, and will soon exchange ambassadors with them...

What the devil is wrong with them?  It looks like Gaddafi is going to pull it out.

I saw an impressive guy on BBC today, some ex-foreign minister of the UK, who said that he always thought Gaddafi would win, and doesn't think anyone will intervene in a major way.

[opebo]

Not that I share Opebo's opinion of Gadhafi, but it's ironic that they are recognizing the opposition government when it seems that Gaddafi has gained the upper hand.

They'll be eating their beret when he marches into Bengazhi!

[opebo]

I don't see what everyone expects Obama to do. Would military intervention in Libya really be worth it?

As Beet said, it's hard to imagine that the consequences of limited military intervention in Libya would be anywhere near as bad as the consequences of Qaddafi defeating the rebellion.

Are you serious? Once Gaddafi defeats the rebellion he'll knock things into shape and the oil will flow out.  If we intervene we'll have endless war, dead americans, destabiliation, bearded men, and blocked oil.  I just find it astounding that people are suddenly pro-intervention.

[opebo]

The Arab League asks the UN Security Council to impose a no-fly zone:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8378392/Libya-Arab-League-calls-for-United-Nations-no-fly-zone.html

Silly asses league - I'm sure Gaddafi's forces would win even without the air-power factor (it isn't as if they're very good at utilizing it from what we've seen).

[opebo]

     So they're saying the rebels have taken back Brega. Think it's true?

It really doesn't seem at all likely.

[opebo]

Guys, I think maybe you've all been misunderstanding what Colonel Gaddafi is, from the get-go:

As the man has informed us himself in a recent interview:

He said he was not like the Tunisian or Egyptian leaders, who fell after anti-government protests. "I'm very different from them," he said. "People are on my side and give me strength."

I think Gaddafi is reminiscent of Saddam Hussein - a real dictator: one who would die rather than give up power, and whose personal relationships and kinship ties are more important than simply being a figurhead for the army (like Mubarak).  Like Saddam, only the intervention by a foreign imperialist can have much of a chance of dislogding such a leader.

Good for Gaddafi - lets acknowledge that the man never even considered running away.  If the ship went down, he fully expected to go straight to the bottom.

[opebo]

I wonder if it would be an infractable offense to express approbation for Messrs Gaddafi and Hussein? 

[opebo]

The way the West has dealt with this is disgusting and will cost us dear for generations to come. Once again we have signalled to those in the region that we indeed are the enemy and that the secular opposition is incapable of ending dictatorships in most of the Middle-East. I fully expect thousands to turn towards radical islamism across the region.

People who think there was any danger of the islamists taking over in Lybia don't know their stuff. If we're unlucky they will be the ones taking over when the Qaddafi regime falls in 10-20 years or when revolution comes to the Arab peninsula though, because we failed the Arab people this time round.  

Good lord, don't you think this smacks of 'White Man's Burden'?

[opebo]

The way the West has dealt with this is disgusting and will cost us dear for generations to come. Once again we have signalled to those in the region that we indeed are the enemy and that the secular opposition is incapable of ending dictatorships in most of the Middle-East. I fully expect thousands to turn towards radical islamism across the region.

People who think there was any danger of the islamists taking over in Lybia don't know their stuff. If we're unlucky they will be the ones taking over when the Qaddafi regime falls in 10-20 years or when revolution comes to the Arab peninsula though, because we failed the Arab people this time round. 

Good lord, don't you think this smacks of 'White Man's Burden'?

When the Arab League invites a NATO intervention, the scenario's somewhat different.

You don't mean to suggest anyone but the USA is calling the shots in the UN, do you?

Guys, you're misunderstanding me - I mean the general idea that it is somehow the responsiblity of the paternalistic white man to 'help out' these swarthier peoples.  As if they cannot fight for their own freedom.  Sounds to me like the old 'White Man's Burden' idea - 'we have to help them'.

[opebo]

Imperialists.

[opebo]

Here we go again - Imperialist Europeans come to Africa and start slaughtering the natives. It is appalling.

[opebo]

Benghazi is currently being stormed (not my words but those of opposition spokesmen). Curious definition of ceasefire.

Yes.  Perhaps Gaddafi can end this before the imperialists have time to meddle.

[opebo]

Here we go again - Imperialist Europeans come to Africa and start slaughtering the natives. It is appalling.

Yes, far better that Gaddafi hire some foreign mercenaries on his own dime, to slaughter the natives for him.

A few fellow African mercenaries from down the street are a far cry from a 'rebellion' dependent upon large scale intervention by the imperialist powers.

[opebo]

The fact is that, at this point in the conflict, without serious actual ground forces by other countries being placed in Libya, Gaddafi will remain in control of a certain amount of Libya irregardless.  Absent that, we're just talking about whether there's a separate rebel-held part or he retakes it all.  Maybe serious aerial attacks can stop the latter, but I wonder.  A no-fly alone zone will not.

I certainly hope you are right.  It seems the Empire may have moved a little too slowly on this one, and the rightful leader will win out.  But what I wonder is will they use this as an excuse to impose sanctions on him for another decade until his people are starved out and he can be invaded and then executed by vile Quislings, as happened to Saddam.

[opebo]

Rather puffed up little characters, aren't they.  My man's the real deal:

[opebo]

Shot a tank who would have threatened civilians. Destroyed.

'Civilians'?  How can one side of a civil war be 'civilian'?  That's like saying the Army of the Confederacy were innocents. 

In any case, enjoy your gloating.

[opebo]

Here we go again - Imperialist Europeans come to Africa and start slaughtering the natives. It is appalling.

Yes, because coalition members Morocco, UAE, Qatar, and Jordan are so white Imperialists. 

Lackeys, and just cover anyway. 

[opebo]

Chavez says a military operation is 'irresponsible'.
Russia 'regrets' it.

They're quite right - Russia should have vetoed it.

Great job, injecting yourself into a Arab tribal war.

If it's not, there is a good chance it will become one now.

Precisely.  They intervene, as they always intervene, using one tribe against another, to gain overall control of the colony.  Its the Hutus and the Tutsis all over again, and Paris, London and Brussels are to blame.

It's interesting how many civilian casualties they will be. They tend to be a lot in such humanitarian operations.

And yet many, many times less than if Qaddafi succeeded in crushing the rebellion.

Pshaw.  Gaddafi would have restored order, and the country would go back to its sleepy prosperity of the last 40 years.  Now with the Western powers using these people to fight each other, we'll have chaos and eternal misery, like in Iraq.

[opebo]

It is interesting to note how excited yesterday's imperial superpowers are about this. A chance to flex their muscles and prove they're not irrelevant, I suppose?

Precisely, and grab back a colony while putting an upstart who has been a thorn in their side for 40 years in his place.  If only Gaddafi had some means of striking back at Paris, London, Brussels.

(am I allowed to say that?)