Libya: Benghazi unrest, to Civil War, to a new government and Gaddafi's death.

[Zarn]

Those green profile pictures make me believe we are talking about a collectible card game... the actual words not withstanding.

You see, I'm making this real killer Ahmadinejad deck. I'm using a few "Motorcycle Cop" cards in it as well as a couple of "Death to America" cards. With those, do you think I need to add any "Curfew" cards? My friend had a Mubarak deck, and he played way too many "Curfew" cards. It was a terrible deck. I would rather leave room for something else, if I can. I really don't think they would do much good. I have Khamenei. Should I put him in the deck, instead?

[Zarn]

Those green profile pictures make me believe we are talking about a collectible card game... the actual words not withstanding.

That's the point; the images are from B3ta.

Oh, I never heard of it.

Still, any suggestions for a deck? lol

[Zarn]

The issue isn't "realpolitik." The reason why I am concerned about protests is that when they turn out the way the situation in Libya has turned out, it can end up hurting more people than helping. Isn't the fact that the country has fallen into civil war, some 140,000 people have been displaced from their homes, and some 6,000 people have been killed something to consider? Or are these facts on the ground irrelevant because we were taught in school that any armed uprising purporting to speak in the name of liberal democracy is automatically worthwile?

Liberty is the most important thing.

[Zarn]

The issue isn't "realpolitik." The reason why I am concerned about protests is that when they turn out the way the situation in Libya has turned out, it can end up hurting more people than helping. Isn't the fact that the country has fallen into civil war, some 140,000 people have been displaced from their homes, and some 6,000 people have been killed something to consider? Or are these facts on the ground irrelevant because we were taught in school that any armed uprising purporting to speak in the name of liberal democracy is automatically worthwile?

Liberty is the most important thing.

Is it? Where was the liberty on 9/12 when the Patriot Act was being proposed? In theory, "give me liberty or give me death" is what Westerners tend to admire, but in reality, even most Westerners will take government provided security over physical danger or death. It's a mistake to project our own values and dreams onto other people's lived reality. The lived reality in Libya right now isn't very good.

@ Antonio: the West should definitely consider intervention, as I've mentioned many times.

So you favor the Patriot Act?

I don't. I would rather die than live in a dictatorship.

[Zarn]

Oh, Beet.  I could never go through life as pessimistic as you are.  I don't know how you survive.  *hughughug*

The issue isn't "realpolitik." The reason why I am concerned about protests is that when they turn out the way the situation in Libya has turned out, it can end up hurting more people than helping. Isn't the fact that the country has fallen into civil war, some 140,000 people have been displaced from their homes, and some 6,000 people have been killed something to consider? Or are these facts on the ground irrelevant because we were taught in school that any armed uprising purporting to speak in the name of liberal democracy is automatically worthwile?

Liberty is the most important thing.

Is it? Where was the liberty on 9/12 when the Patriot Act was being proposed? In theory, "give me liberty or give me death" is what Westerners tend to admire, but in reality, even most Westerners will take government provided security over physical danger or death. It's a mistake to project our own values and dreams onto other people's lived reality. The lived reality in Libya right now isn't very good.

@ Antonio: the West should definitely consider intervention, as I've mentioned many times.

So you favor the Patriot Act?

I don't. I would rather die than live in a dictatorship.

DRAMAZ!

It's common sense. It doesn't entail suicide. It entails dying to get things back to the side of liberty. Just because you like control, doesn't mean everyone does.

[Zarn]

Quite honestly, the people of Libya having the ability to govern themselves is far more important than "Regional stability."

EDIT:  And, yes, full-out civil war is a step up from living under the rule of Muammar al-Qaddafi.

Great, I agree with Mikado...

[Zarn]

Well, according to Wikipedia, two U.S. warships are on their way to Libya through the Suez Canal. This being Wikipedia, however, I'd prefer a more reliable source.

BBC told me US warships were headed there. UK is was also getting something ready.

[Zarn]

According to BBC:

1651: Fear and anger in rebel-held Benghazi after the massive arms depot blast, AFP reports. People the agency interviewed were unwilling to give their full names, fearing reprisals from Gaddafi forces. "There will be rivers of blood," said one man in jeans and a leather jacket. "It won't be like in Tunisia and Egypt. How long will the West hold back and do nothing? People are asking why the West is watching without doing anything."

[Zarn]

If some countries attack Libya, Austria will not be among them:

A new Gallup poll shows 70% of Austrians are against a military intervention by our army.

http://www.oe24.at/welt/libyen/Oesterreich-kauft-Oel-von-Gaddafi/19530504

I would find it humorous, if Austria was the sole country to intervene.

[Zarn]

Apparently Gaddafi offered rebels to negociate his leaving power, but the rebels turned him down.

If someone like Gaddafi tries to negociate, it means he is really in deep sh*t.

It's why I think it is only a rumor.

[Zarn]

Apparently Gaddafi offered rebels to negociate his leaving power, but the rebels turned him down.

If someone like Gaddafi tries to negociate, it means he is really in deep sh*t.

It's why I think it is only a rumor.

That's still worth noting.

Didn't say you shouldn't post it.