The Wisconsin Cheese Showdown

[Smash255]

Seems like some notification law about this action was broken (just put on CNN and heard the end of the discussion), but under the law 24 hours are suppose to be given for something like this and 2 hours under emergency procedure, none of which was followed.

[Dgov]

Seems like some notification law about this action was broken (just put on CNN and heard the end of the discussion), but under the law 24 hours are suppose to be given for something like this and 2 hours under emergency procedure, none of which was followed.

From what I understand, the Republicans just cut out all the budgetary parts of the current bill, so i don't think that applies.  There's nothing "new" in this bill, which is why they can do this.

[Smash255]

Seems like some notification law about this action was broken (just put on CNN and heard the end of the discussion), but under the law 24 hours are suppose to be given for something like this and 2 hours under emergency procedure, none of which was followed.

From what I understand, the Republicans just cut out all the budgetary parts of the current bill, so i don't think that applies.  There's nothing "new" in this bill, which is why they can do this.

I'm no expert on this particular law, just saying what I heard, it seemed like making that changed is what required the 24 hour notification.

[Sbane]

So what exactly passed in the end?

[Dgov]

So what exactly passed in the end?

Basically, The Unions can no longer legally collectively bargain for benefits/working rules (i.e. vacation days, sick leave, health plans, etc.).  There were some changes to bargaining rights over salaries, but I those are still mostly intact.

i think everything else was cut out.

[Smash255]

So what exactly passed in the end?

Basically the collective bargaining rights they were trying to strip they were able to strip.  They did so by taking it out of the budget process saying it had no impact on the budget.  So they argued that this needed to be done because of its impact on the budget, but passed it through a way which it couldn't impact the budget.

[Dgov]

None of the Dems are in any danger, at least 2 of the republicans are in deep doodoo.

Looking at the data, the Republicans are probably fine, at least until next year.  Wisconsin law prevents elected officials from being recalled until they have served at least a full year in their elected office--which means that the only Republicans the Democrats can target are the ones that were elected in 2008--a much worse environment for the Republican party than currently (PPP has walker down 7 to Barrett in a theoretical poll in the middle of a terrible media cycle for him.  In 2008 the State elected Obama over the much more Moderate McCain by like 14 points)

Add on top that this would be an off-off-year election (where Democrats tend to do much worse than in say, national presidential elections), and I'd say any actual recall elections are going to wind up being much less favorable to the Democrats than you seem to think.

[Smash255]

Holy Crap just saw how this unfolded, Insane

[Capitan Zapp Brannigan]

None of the Dems are in any danger, at least 2 of the republicans are in deep doodoo.

Looking at the data, the Republicans are probably fine, at least until next year.  Wisconsin law prevents elected officials from being recalled until they have served at least a full year in their elected office--which means that the only Republicans the Democrats can target are the ones that were elected in 2008--a much worse environment for the Republican party than currently (PPP has walker down 7 to Barrett in a theoretical poll in the middle of a terrible media cycle for him.  In 2008 the State elected Obama over the much more Moderate McCain by like 14 points)

Add on top that this would be an off-off-year election (where Democrats tend to do much worse than in say, national presidential elections), and I'd say any actual recall elections are going to wind up being much less favorable to the Democrats than you seem to think.

I don't think Dems being motivated to turn out is going to be a problem for them.

[Smash255]

Very bizarre. 

During the discussion on the issue, a Democratic Assemblyman was reading off the open meetings rule requiring 24 hours notice.  Then all of a sudden as he is speaking the GOP State Senators call for a roll call and vote on the issue.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/vp/41998976#41998976

[krazen1211]

Using public policy for political purposes. Republicans do it better than anyone.

At least the Democrats put up a good fight.

Nope. Not quite as well as the Democrats did to create public sector unions in Ohio in 1983.

[krazen1211]

Violence?

http://mobile.twitter.com/news3jessica#45596184525537280
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svsgvqyr0rQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Marokai Backbeat]

Using public policy for political purposes. Republicans do it better than anyone.

At least the Democrats put up a good fight.

Nope. Not quite as well as the Democrats did to create public sector unions in Ohio in 1983.

Yeah, because it couldn't possibly have been about a longstanding Democratic belief that unionization improves the lives of regular people. Compare to this incident, which has absolutely positively nothing to do with the budget, just a simple stripping of rights and an attempt to weaken political opponents. Exempting unions that supported Walker? And the threats to try and tighten voter registration rules while the Democrats were gone? That helps the budget in what way, exactly?

You are a frightening authoritarian cheerleading poster that engages in all sorts of false equivalencies, selective reading, and twisting of words. You'll get along with the others just fine.

[DrScholl]

Lets hope those recalls go through. There needs to be consequences to this action.

[cinyc]

Using public policy for political purposes. Republicans do it better than anyone.

At least the Democrats put up a good fight.

Nope. Not quite as well as the Democrats did to create public sector unions in Ohio in 1983.

Yeah, because it couldn't possibly have been about a longstanding Democratic belief that unionization improves the lives of regular people. Compare to this incident, which has absolutely positively nothing to do with the budget, just a simple stripping of rights and an attempt to weaken political opponents. Exempting unions that supported Walker? And the threats to try and tighten voter registration rules while the Democrats were gone? That helps the budget in what way, exactly?

You are a frightening authoritarian cheerleading poster that engages in all sorts of false equivalencies, selective reading, and twisting of words. You'll get along with the others just fine.

At the end of the day, this was put in place so that LOCAL and COUNTY governments can more easily deal with the massive state aid cuts that are going to be passed along with the budget.  So, yes, it is about the budget, but not necessarily the state budget except to the extent it would allow the state government to more easily get concessions from its own workers.

[Marokai Backbeat]

At the end of the day, this was put in place so that LOCAL and COUNTY governments can more easily deal with the massive state aid cuts that are going to be passed along with the budget.  So, yes, it is about the budget, but not necessarily the state budget except to the extent it would allow the state government to more easily get concessions from its own workers.

You lost the right to whine about union concessions when they offered to give up any of the cuts demanded of them as long as they could keep their ability to bargain collectively. Abolishing collective bargaining is a rights issue, not a budget issue. The fact that they had to split it apart from the budget bill just to pass it is a tacit admission of exactly that.

[krazen1211]

Yeah, because it couldn't possibly have been about a longstanding Democratic belief that unionization improves the lives of regular people. Compare to this incident, which has absolutely positively nothing to do with the budget, just a simple stripping of rights and an attempt to weaken political opponents. Exempting unions that supported Walker? And the threats to try and tighten voter registration rules while the Democrats were gone? That helps the budget in what way, exactly?

That belief is borne out of nothing more than AFL-CIO support and money for Ohio Democrats in 1982, and of course in 1986.

Thanks for showing the truth, though. Democrats are fine with party line ramming and political power grabs when they do it. Talk about crocodile tears!


The Democratic mayor of New York did the same thing in 1958 not because the city needed labor unions, but because he wanted to.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

 Woah: http://www.livestream.com/theuptake

[cinyc]

At the end of the day, this was put in place so that LOCAL and COUNTY governments can more easily deal with the massive state aid cuts that are going to be passed along with the budget.  So, yes, it is about the budget, but not necessarily the state budget except to the extent it would allow the state government to more easily get concessions from its own workers.

You lost the right to whine about union concessions when they offered to give up any of the cuts demanded of them as long as they could keep their ability to bargain collectively. Abolishing collective bargaining is a rights issue, not a budget issue. The fact that they had to split it apart from the budget bill just to pass it is a tacit admission of exactly that.

You're telling me that the unions representing Sheboygan teachers or Wausau public works employees were all completely bound by whatever talking points you heard on MSNBC or read on Talking Points Memo?  Not bloody likely. 

Walker was a county exec.  He knows what happens when the state cuts aid while the county's hands are tied - county taxes go up.  This bill is an attempt to avoid that situation.

[krazen1211]

At the end of the day, this was put in place so that LOCAL and COUNTY governments can more easily deal with the massive state aid cuts that are going to be passed along with the budget.  So, yes, it is about the budget, but not necessarily the state budget except to the extent it would allow the state government to more easily get concessions from its own workers.

Public sector unions were not a force in the Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Democratic Party. A generation later, they put John Kennedy in the White House and wrote executive order 10988. The symbiotic relationship between public sector unions and the Democratic party has continued to this day, with the exception of a handful of states like North Carolina where public sector unions are not tolerated.

[Marokai Backbeat]

That belief is borne out of nothing more than AFL-CIO support and money for Ohio Democrats in 1982, and of course in 1986.

Thanks for showing the truth, though. Democrats are fine with party line ramming and political power grabs when they do it. Talk about crocodile tears!

The Democratic mayor of New York did the same thing in 1958 not because the city needed labor unions, but because he wanted to.

Dude, I don't give a flying f**k about who introduced unions to where at what point in time. This discussion is about the budget, what Republicans are doing here in Wisconsin, and everywhere else. Even if I was to entertain your retarded "the other side does it too" excuse, that doesn't excuse a goddamn thing unless you have the mind of a toddler.

Rick Scott in Florida wants to cut 1.75 billion from the state's schools and give 1.6 billion away in tax breaks for business.

The Ohio budget repair bill includes anti-gay marriage language and giving politicians, not judges or any sort of neutral arbiter, power to resolve labor disputes. (And guts private and public union rights.)

Snyder in Michigan is supporting a budget bill that gives him power to unilaterally declare a state in "fiscal crisis" and place a new overseer of those towns with power to dismiss the elected officials of that town and potentially place a corporation in charge of it. He's also supporting a tax hike on poor people to give it away in tax breaks.

Republicans in Wisconsin threatened to tighten voter registration laws to intimidate the Democrats.

There's alot of things going on right now, but it has nothing to do with budget issues. There's something much more widespread and insidious going on here, and the people shelling out millions in fake grassroots movements depend on people like you to let them have their way.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Walker was a county exec.  He knows what happens when the state cuts aid while the county's hands are tied - county taxes go up.  This bill is an attempt to avoid that situation.

You really want to bring up Walker's atrocious record as county exec?

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Guys, watch the live stream I just posted. It's crazy.

[DrScholl]

No matter how this went, the result was going to be the same, Republicans have stepped in it in Wisconsin. Next election, they are going to have zero credibility for overreaching and swing voters aren't going to be perceptive to them. What reason would they have to be?

[Marokai Backbeat]

Guys, watch the live stream I just posted. It's crazy.

Watching it since you posted it. Crazy indeed.