Opinion of teachers' unions

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Freedom Fighters of course. I love how they always oppose vouchers.

[Lief 🗽]

FF.

[Frodo]

Among all the unions, they are my least favorite.  While I would not go so far as to favor stripping them of their right to organize (though I have fantasized about it in my angrier moments), they desperately need to change their structure in a way that doesn't put so much emphasis on seniority which all too often favors older, frequently incompetent teachers at the expense of younger, more talented ones who are usually the last to be hired and the first to be fired in a budget crunch.  While it isn't so much of a problem in other unions, when it concerns educating children it is downright despicable.  And I lay much of the blame for the poor quality of public schools at the teachers unions' doorstep.  Too many teachers are not much better educated than their students -and yet they're still there, teaching.  

[patrick1]

Neither. And Frodo brings up a great point.  Basically new teachers and those coming out of college now are screwed.  My friends tell me that the young ones are getting bad reviews just because they will not keep them on. With the budget admins arent giving out tenure and older incompetents can skate on by or massively rules and or the law while collecting their generous checks rubber room. A basic problem with most unions is that it gives shelter to the lazy minority among its members.

They oppose vouchers because it is competition.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     HP, like all public employee unions.

[Хahar 🤔]

The good guys, certainly.

[courts]

Among all the unions, they are my least favorite.  While I would not go so far as to favor stripping them of their right to organize (though I have fantasized about it in my angrier moments), they desperately need to change their structure in a way that doesn't put so much emphasis on seniority which all too often favors older, frequently incompetent teachers at the expense of younger, more talented ones who are usually the last to be hired and the first to be fired in a budget crunch.  While it isn't so much of a problem in other unions, when it concerns educating children it is downright despicable.  And I lay much of the blame for the poor quality of public schools at the teachers unions' doorstep.  Too many teachers are not much better educated than their students -and yet they're still there, teaching.  

Oh and vouchers are obviously not a workable idea on a large scale. Anyone that disagrees should take a look at american universities right now under student loans and the semi-public university system... It would be just like that.  You'd just wind up with us subsidizing increasingly expensive schools indirectly through vouchers and/or the 'private' schools that accepted vouchers becoming more like the dumbed down, test-driven, overly bureaucratic school systems that parents fled in droves initially. Why so many 'small government conservatives' and 'libertarians' think they're a serious long term solution strikes me as a pretty severe case of cognitive dissonance honestly.

[Marokai Backbeat]

The flawed heroes in their struggle.

[courts]

faking sick to strike illegally because you were being asked to pay a portion of your healthcare and pension costs like everyone else is so heroic, i totally agree marokai. i mean it's not like, they own the insurance company or get one of those evil cadillac plans democrats are always rallying to tax more or anything.

http://politifi.com/news/Wisconsin-Teachers-Union-owns-health-insurance-company-they-collectively-bargained-for-1654276.html

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

faking sick to strike illegally because you were being asked to pay a portion of your healthcare and pension costs like everyone else is so heroic, i totally agree marokai. i mean it's not like, they own the insurance company or get one of those evil cadillac plans democrats are always rallying to tax more or anything.

http://politifi.com/news/Wisconsin-Teachers-Union-owns-health-insurance-company-they-collectively-bargained-for-1654276.html

No. That's dishonest/idiotic and you know it.

[Marokai Backbeat]

faking sick to strike illegally because you were being asked to pay a portion of your healthcare and pension costs like everyone else is so heroic, i totally agree marokai. i mean it's not like, they own the insurance company or get one of those evil cadillac plans democrats are always rallying to tax more or anything.

http://politifi.com/news/Wisconsin-Teachers-Union-owns-health-insurance-company-they-collectively-bargained-for-1654276.html

You know I like/tolerate you, but this is silly and you know that. The unions have essentially agreed to any cuts asked of them at this point. Walker still refuses. They are protesting over their collective bargaining rights which are being stripped away from them, not the cuts.

[courts]

http://legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/data/SB-13.pdf

They still have collective bargaining rights for wages and will until the agreement expires. What the bill primarily addressed was the pensions situation (capping and making it non-negotiable) and healthcare benefits which even now would be a fraction of what most pay. And their fraud has cost the state millions already. This isn't the UAW or something arguing for equivalent benefits compared to foreign companies or anything like that... This is the Teachers Union trying to preserve its automatic deductions and generous benefits at all costs when the state is experiencing major difficulties, and in fact violating their terms of the agreement.

[Marokai Backbeat]

This is the Teachers Union trying to preserve its automatic deductions and generous benefits at all costs when the state is experiencing major difficulties.

Once again, the unions have already agreed to all sorts of cuts. Walker refuses them. What this is about it slashing the unions now, and then leaving them completely vulnerable in the future at the whim of whatever party happens to be in charge.

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About their protesting, I frankly, do not care.

[courts]

So you don't care that they committed medical fraud and shut down the school system for days for a proposal that hasn't been enacted yet (and wouldn't for several months) and cost people far more than if they had simply, I don't know, tried legally lobbying against it?

[Marokai Backbeat]

So you don't care that they committed medical fraud and shut down the school system for days for a proposal that hasn't been enacted yet (and wouldn't for several months) and cost people far more than if they had simply, I don't know, tried legally lobbying against it?

Not particularly, to be honest.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

     HP, like all public employee unions.

Qft

[Franzl]

Among all the unions, they are my least favorite.  While I would not go so far as to favor stripping them of their right to organize (though I have fantasized about it in my angrier moments), they desperately need to change their structure in a way that doesn't put so much emphasis on seniority which all too often favors older, frequently incompetent teachers at the expense of younger, more talented ones who are usually the last to be hired and the first to be fired in a budget crunch.  While it isn't so much of a problem in other unions, when it concerns educating children it is downright despicable.  And I lay much of the blame for the poor quality of public schools at the teachers unions' doorstep.  Too many teachers are not much better educated than their students -and yet they're still there, teaching.  

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

My Mom's a teacher, so she obviously has a connection to teacher's unions. That said, her view isn't all positive, especially concerning seniority (as was mentioned before) and being forced to pay union dues whether you're in a union or not. That aside, she does fear that Snyder will attempt the same thing over here in Michigan (she voted for Snyder and is a Republican).

I myself am not completely decided on this issue.

[opebo]

Freedom fighters, and the fact that a majority of even this forum consider them horrible persons shows what is wrong with the plutocrat-worshiping USA.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Well I embarrassingly accidentally voted HP on my own poll. So subtract one from HP and add to FF. Still not a majority.

[tpfkaw]

     HP, like all public employee unions.

Qft

[Hash]

Not too positive, but I've never personally had any problems with teacher's unions. Unlike the Amalgamated Transit Union, which is a criminal organization and a bunch of lazy sh**ts who need to stop complaining.

[Lief 🗽]

This thread is yet more evidence against the ridiculous claim that this forum leans left or has an American liberal bias.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

This thread is yet more evidence against the ridiculous claim that this forum leans left or has an American liberal bias.

Lefties can't hate the teacher's union?

[afleitch]

Teachers have a right to unionise. Simple as that.