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  Atlas Fantasy Government (Moderators: Gustaf, Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee)
  Resignation
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Author Topic: Resignation  (Read 1745 times)
TeePee4Prez
Flyers2004
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« on: December 03, 2004, 03:38:18 pm »

Well, in Watergate fashion I hearby resign from the Senate effectively at midnight, Saturday, December 4, 2004.  Gov. MAS117 shall appoint an interim.
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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2004, 03:41:03 pm »

This was the right move.
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Akno21
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« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2004, 03:42:14 pm »

Does the Governor have that power? You still represent Maryland, which is not in MAS's region. If MAS and NickG could agree upon a replacement, that would work, though it might not be legal.
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Peter
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« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2004, 03:44:16 pm »

Well, in Watergate fashion I hearby resign from the Senate effectively at midnight, Saturday, December 4, 2004.  Gov. MAS117 shall appoint an interim.

I think you have done the honourable thing by resigning.

However, the only way in which a new Senator can fill out the rest of your term (until January 7th) is for the electors of District 2 to elect a new one. The process by which Governors could appoint Senators to fill a vacant seat for the rest of a term was only applicable for Regional Senate seats.

There will need to be a special election if 1B is to have representation before January.
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Akno21
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« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2004, 03:46:38 pm »

Well, in Watergate fashion I hearby resign from the Senate effectively at midnight, Saturday, December 4, 2004.  Gov. MAS117 shall appoint an interim.

I think you have done the honourable thing by resigning.

However, the only way in which a new Senator can fill out the rest of your term (until January 7th) is for the electors of District 2 to elect a new one. The process by which Governors could appoint Senators to fill a vacant seat for the rest of a term was only applicable for Regional Senate seats.

There will need to be a special election if 1B is to have representation before January.

Could the winner of the upcoming election just start immediatly?
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True Federalist
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« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2004, 04:08:48 pm »
« Edited: December 03, 2004, 04:11:13 pm by SE Gov. Ernest »

Technically, I think the proper thing to do would be to have a special election that was coincident with the regular election.  It would be two seperate elections, which would probably have the same candidates, but not necessarily, as the seven day rule doesn't apply to special elections IIRC, and the voters could choose to elect someonw such as Akno21 in the special election who lives in the old district, but not the new district.
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King
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« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2004, 05:27:53 pm »

IrishDemocrat, instead of resigning you should just not run for re-election. That would be a simple solution to the replacement problem.
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Akno21
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« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2004, 06:31:55 pm »

Whatever the case, I am in support of bending the rules a little so that the Citizens of the Old District 1 (or was it 2, the one with PA, NY, MD, DE, and DC) can have the same amount of representation as everyone else. 
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KEmperor
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« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2004, 06:51:25 pm »

Whatever the case, I am in support of bending the rules a little so that the Citizens of the Old District 1 (or was it 2, the one with PA, NY, MD, DE, and DC) can have the same amount of representation as everyone else. 

What?
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Harry
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« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2004, 07:07:00 pm »

Lets just have the new election count as the special election....there's no point in having a special election that's for a such a short term.
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Akno21
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« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2004, 07:28:42 pm »

Whatever the case, I am in support of bending the rules a little so that the Citizens of the Old District 1 (or was it 2, the one with PA, NY, MD, DE, and DC) can have the same amount of representation as everyone else. 

What?

What I was trying to say is that if the rules make it so that the residents of New York and Pennslyvania won't have two Senators representing them until January, which is a whole month, the laws should be bypassed to ensure representation.

Note: As Chief Justice you probably disagree, and I understand.
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MAS117
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« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2004, 09:43:12 pm »

One election is good enough.
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True Federalist
Ernest
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« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2004, 10:38:55 pm »

Lets just have the new election count as the special election....there's no point in having a special election that's for a such a short term.

The problem is that the new District 1 and the old District 1 aren't the same.  I could see having just a single vote only if the ballots were counted twice.  In the first count, voters of Maryland, DC, and Delaware would join those of PA and NY for the special election for who would be Senator until January 6 (when the new Senators are to be sworn in) and the second count would be of the voters of just PA and NY to determine who would represent District 1 after January 6.
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King
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« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2004, 10:56:13 pm »

IrishDemocrat, I urge you to withdraw your resignation and just not run for re-election so we can avoid all this special election nonsense.
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Fritz
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« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2004, 11:42:51 pm »

Yes, please.

Assuming IrishDemocrat doesnt withdraw his resignation, I will go ahead with a special election next weekend, in old district 1.
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J. J.
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« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2004, 12:57:18 am »

At the extreme risk of being named the Parliamentarian of Atlas Senate, I would point out that under many parliamentary authorites, a resignation is not effective unless accepted.  The Constitution and Rules of the Senate are silent on this.

UK practice is that a member of the legislature cannot directly resign his seat, as it a public trust.  The member of parliament applies for and accepts a nominal post, Baliff of the Chiltern Hundreds, from the Crown.  As an MP cannot hold such a post and be an MP, he loses his seat.

Jefferson's Manual is silent on resignations.

Mason's Manual, which is used by the majority of state legistures, while permitting resignations, requires them to be accepted by the body, or "until there has been reasonable time for it to be accepted (Sec. 556, #1, p. 394)."

The traditionally used Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised has similar wording and has similar wording to Mason on p. 279.  It also notes that a resignation need not be accepted, expecially if used to avoid charges (p. 280).

The Standard Code of Parliamentary Procedure permits officers and members to resign at any time, but notes that it can be withdrawn if not formally accepted and if not yet effective (pp. 255-6).

I should note that these citations are from the most current editions of these parliamentary manuals.

I will note that there is no rule currently covering this in the Senate, but the common law as it relates to parliamentary procedure does give a lot of weight to the Senate accepting the resignation for it to be effective in this circumstance. 

The chair (Vice President Keystone Phil) has yet to state the question on the resignation.  The Senate has yet to vote on it.
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Peter
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« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2004, 04:32:59 am »

The Precedent of this forum seems to be that one can simply resign a position, rather than requiring it be accepted. I think the process of accepting a resignation is over-formalising the system, which is un-needed.
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Fritz
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« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2004, 09:35:16 am »

We have precedents.  Several members of the Senate have simply resigned in the past, without requiring any formal acceptance of the resignation.

We also have precedents for electing the replacement, which I will follow.
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J. J.
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« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2004, 09:48:29 am »

The Precedent of this forum seems to be that one can simply resign a position, rather than requiring it be accepted. I think the process of accepting a resignation is over-formalising the system, which is un-needed.

Precedents, when not incorporated in rules, can be overridden by either a vote in some parliamentary manuals, Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised, (p. 17), or by the adoption of a rule, Mason, Section 4, 2., which is similar to the The Standard Code.  The basic rule was expressed by an article which appeared in the journal of the American Institute of Parliamentarians, Parliamentary Journal, July, 1997, "The Role of Custom," which states, "In the absence of any other conflicting rule, custom is binding (p. 95)."  The Senate could choose to, in effect, adopt a rule and decline the nomination, if it so desires.
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J. J.
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« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2004, 09:50:43 am »

We have precedents.  Several members of the Senate have simply resigned in the past, without requiring any formal acceptance of the resignation.

We also have precedents for electing the replacement, which I will follow.

An adopted motion would be enough to overturn such precedent, if the Senate wishes.
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