Anyone notice how the press is lifting up Islam while smearing Christianity? (user search)
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  Anyone notice how the press is lifting up Islam while smearing Christianity? (search mode)
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Author Topic: Anyone notice how the press is lifting up Islam while smearing Christianity?  (Read 8962 times)
True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« on: March 25, 2011, 04:39:00 PM »

And the press isn’t simply fighting the majority of any given country, else it would report on the violence against Christians throughout the Muslim world.  Instead, we Christians  have to follow such news through other sources.

jmfcst, you're missing the point that was being raised.  The correct analogy to be raised if you wish to refute that point is not the coverage in this country of religious issues in other countries, but the coverage that is given religion in a predominantly Muslim country with freedom of the press and speech roughly equivalent to our own.  Problem is, save for perhaps Turkey or Indonesia, there isn't one, and even those would be very problematic comparisons.

At this point the hypothesis about what the 'far left' might do in a country with a different majority faith can't be adequately tested with respect to Islam.

However, I do think that treating Islam as a single monolithic religion as you seem to do is a mistake too many commentators make.  There are a diversity of traditions in Islam, some of which are more tolerant than others.  While there are places in the Islamic world where an Islamist revolution would be less troubling to me than in Egypt, there are also places where it would be more troubling.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2011, 06:14:11 PM »

ernest...my treatment of islam is based on what is stated n the koran

If you think Muslims agree on how to interpret the Quran any better than Christians agree on how to interpret the Bible, you are sadly mistaken.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2011, 02:02:49 PM »

First off, strike the hadith cite immediately in any discussion of what all Muslims agree upon.  Not only do not all branches of Islam use the hadith, those that do don't agree on which hadith are valid.

    "And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better than mere disputation, unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong and injury: but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow in submission."  Sura 29:46

This is a clear statement in the Quran against the forcible conversion of other Peoples of the Book to Islam.  Nor did the Arab conquest of the seventh century result in such forcible conversions.  I'll grant that one significant difference between Islam and Christianity is that Islam calls for its followers to establish political control, which Christianity does not (or at least did not until Constantine came along three centuries after Christ).  Now in practice, some Muslims have an overly broad definition of wrong and injury.

    "Those who believe in the Quran, and those who follow the Torah, and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve."  Sura 2:62

So despite what you stated earlier, the Quran does not make the claim that one must be a Muslim to be saved.  While not all who profess to be Muslim are ecumenical in their approach, the Quran most decidedly is.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2011, 06:58:07 PM »

jmf, let me leave aside the whole issue of Islam, since I don't think your preconceptions there are going to be changed by any argument I might bring.  (How you link a desire for political control to an inevitable desire for decapitation is beyond me, so I have no idea how to counter that notion.)  However, in your identification of Mystery Babylon with the United States, how do you square that with the explicit identification of Mystery Babylon as a city that is repeatedly made in Revelation 17-18.  I could possibly see an identification being made between Mystery Babylon and New York City, but not with the United States or any other country.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2011, 10:57:57 AM »


 However, in your identification of Mystery Babylon with the United States, how do you square that with the explicit identification of Mystery Babylon as a city that is repeatedly made in Revelation 17-18.  I could possibly see an identification being made between Mystery Babylon and New York City, but not with the United States or any other country.

cities are often used to symbolize countries in the bible

That symbolism is used when those cities serve as the political, cultural, and economic center of said country.  There is no city that can be said to be that of the United States.  New York City, because of the UN, could be said to be the center of the world in those three areas.

In any case, Rev 17:9-10, argues strongly against identifying Mystery Babylon with the United States.  There could not have been at the time Revelation was written five prior and one current ruler of the United States.  If one wants to get abstract, Mystery Babylon as a personification of the center of world power is a possible interpretation.  However, that too argues against an identification with the United States.  The seventh king is identified as reigning but a brief time, and the United States has been the preeminent power in the world for too long now.  A United Nations that gains real power could fit the bill as the seventh king.
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