Why Indiana is so conservative ?

[Jyrki]

Indiana is a Northern conservative state. That's odd...
Kerry can win New Hampshire and Ohio but he can't win Indiana (unless he get Evan Bayh as his VP). Why ?

Gore-Bush was the most significant "North-South divide" of the last fifty years.
The division between the Right (South) and the Left (North) is the same since Lincoln in 1860. If you look at the electoral map of 1896 and at the one of 2000 (below), you'll see that the right-wing states and the left-wing states have not changed (the Republican party and the Democratic party switching positions).
...With a big exception : Indiana.
Indiana is extremely conservative while Michigan, Illinois and Ohio are centrist or liberal.
- In the 1920s, nationally, Indiana was said to have the most powerful Ku Klux Klan. It counted a high number of members statewide and its importance peaked in the 1924 election of Edward Jackson for governor.
- Indiana voted against FDR in 1940 and 1944 and against Kennedy in 1960.
- This state has supported the republican nominee in every election since the landslide of Lyndon Johnson in 1964.

How do you explain this ?
Why Illinois and Indiana are so different ?

1860 :

1896 :

2000:

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Like this: your theory is wrong

[Siege40]

My thought is that given that Illinois has larger immagrant populations, even back then, more industrialized and more urban. Indianna is essentially a Illinois without a Chicago or other big cities. The power is in the urban areas, which were even developing back then. Indianna on the other hand was and is largely rural. Also the state of Indianna was mostly settled by Southerners that came north, not Northerners that came West. This may still be an influence today, voting trends can often be passed down through the generations, especially in states like Indianna that hasn't seen massive immagration, unlike Illinois.

Siege40

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Indiana is a Northern conservative state. That's odd...

No it isn't.

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Because GOP loyalties stretch back to the Civil War

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Not true

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Not true. Besides Lincoln was quite conservative (whereas Robert E. Lee was a liberal)

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Sure... the Corn Belt is very conservative... but that extends into Illinois, Ohio, etc.
The Gary-Hammond area is strongly Democrat BTW

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Civil War+Cornbelt=GOP

[opebo]

Parts of Illinois, parts of Michigan, and much of Ohio are as conservative as Indiana.  Jumping over a state MO is mostly as conservative as Indiana, and neighboring Kentucky is even more conservative.  Indiana just happens to be of more or less one geographic type, undiluted by other regions or excess urban areas.  

In other words a great deal of the North is very conservative, its just swamped in states that contain too many big cities.

[Siege40]

In other words a great deal of the North is very conservative, its just swamped in states that contain too many big cities.

How many is too many big cities? Don't tell me, Enough for the Dems to win?

Siege40

[Jyrki]

Indiana is a Northern conservative state. That's odd...

No it isn't.

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Because GOP loyalties stretch back to the Civil War

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Not true

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Not true. Besides Lincoln was quite conservative (whereas Robert E. Lee was a liberal)

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Sure... the Corn Belt is very conservative... but that extends into Illinois, Ohio, etc.
The Gary-Hammond area is strongly Democrat BTW

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Civil War+Cornbelt=GOP

Don't lose my time with post like this, please.
"Because GOP loyalties stretch back to the Civil War"
And not New Hampshire maybe ??!

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

Exactly

In other words a great deal of the North is very conservative, its just swamped in states that contain too many big cities.

How many is too many big cities? Don't tell me, Enough for the Dems to win?

Siege40

[ilikeverin]

Once I asked my dad why they predicted Indiana and Kentucky so early for the Republicans.  He told me the polls closed early and that the Democrats never win Indiana

[Siege40]

Do you think that in the future if the Democratic nominee was from Indianna or the VP, could they win it, assuming the political situation is the same or similar.

Siege40

[opebo]

Do you think that in the future if the Democratic nominee was from Indianna or the VP, could they win it, assuming the political situation is the same or similar.

Siege40

No, definitely not with just the VP.  Maybe if Evan Bayh ran with Zell Miller as his VP.

[Gustaf]

Indiana is a Northern conservative state. That's odd...

No it isn't.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Because GOP loyalties stretch back to the Civil War

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Not true

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Not true. Besides Lincoln was quite conservative (whereas Robert E. Lee was a liberal)

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Sure... the Corn Belt is very conservative... but that extends into Illinois, Ohio, etc.
The Gary-Hammond area is strongly Democrat BTW

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Civil War+Cornbelt=GOP

The Republicans weren't that conservative:

They introduced the progressive tax, arguing that 'a tax properly levied, upon incomes...is an equitable and just tax'. Or as the Chicago Tribune put it: 'the rich should be taxed more than the poor'. Another Republican claimed that 'the universal cry of this people is to be taxed'.

Basically the GOP of Lincoln and the Civil War favoured a stronger central government, higher taxes and equal rights for blacks. That's fairly liberal.

[Jyrki]

Do you think that in the future if the Democratic nominee was from Indianna or the VP, could they win it, assuming the political situation is the same or similar.

Siege40

I think they could... but they probably won't  
It's a long shot, even with Evan Bayh.

[??????????]

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I agree on the first two, the third one I could strongly debate you on. Yes the North wanted higher taxes on the south. The south was paying the north and getting nothing back. Compare the roads, railroads and waterway systems just before 1860. The Northerners were sucking the south dry of profits and giving them nothing in return. One of the MAIN reasons for the war. Abolition was a minority. On the high end 10% of the north was in favor of abolition. Most Northern businessman couldn't condemn slavery because they were in the process of enslaving the Irish in their factories and factory towns. Robert Gould Shaw who led the 54th Mass., a black regiment, was a very very wealthy man. And you want to guess how his father made his money? You guessed, the slave trade. The slave trade made Massachusetts a wealthy state.

Indiana had strong southern sympathies in the southern part of the state. Indiana actually sent a Confederate regiment south. Many Indianans consider themselves southern before mid-western.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Yeah but Southern Indiana is more Democrat than most of the rest of the state.
The early Republicans were divided between the Radicals and the Conservatives BTW.

NH is a Republican state

[Gustaf]

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I agree on the first two, the third one I could strongly debate you on. Yes the North wanted higher taxes on the south. The south was paying the north and getting nothing back. Compare the roads, railroads and waterway systems just before 1860. The Northerners were sucking the south dry of profits and giving them nothing in return. One of the MAIN reasons for the war. Abolition was a minority. On the high end 10% of the north was in favor of abolition. Most Northern businessman couldn't condemn slavery because they were in the process of enslaving the Irish in their factories and factory towns. Robert Gould Shaw who led the 54th Mass., a black regiment, was a very very wealthy man. And you want to guess how his father made his money? You guessed, the slave trade. The slave trade made Massachusetts a wealthy state.

Indiana had strong southern sympathies in the southern part of the state. Indiana actually sent a Confederate regiment south. Many Indianans consider themselves southern before mid-western.

My point wasn't necessarily that the North wanted higher taxes on the SOUth, they wanted it in general. And even though racism was sadly strong even in the North, I do think that it's undisputable that a strong faction of Radical Republicans with a fairly strong amount of support among Northerners, were against slavery. And the Irish weren't enslaved, the formalia here makes a large difference, imo.

[??????????]

Working 15 hours a day locked in a enclosed warehouse when you were 8 years old isn't slavery?

[Gustaf]

Working 15 hours a day locked in a enclosed warehouse when you were 8 years old isn't slavery?

There is a difference between someone owning you and someone not owning you...I'm not saying that working conditions were right at that time, but I wouldn't call it slavery or equal it with that.

[muon2]

Yeah but Southern Indiana is more Democrat than most of the rest of the state.
The early Republicans were divided between the Radicals and the Conservatives BTW.

NH is a Republican state

Like IN, IL is democratic along Lake Michigan and in the southernmost areas, plus centers of industial and college towns. The state greatly differ in proportion of these groups. If Springfield or Peoria had grown like Indianapolis, and Chicago stayed the size of Gary and Hammond, the two states would still have very similar voting patterns.

[??????????]

Working 15 hours a day locked in a enclosed warehouse when you were 8 years old isn't slavery?

There is a difference between someone owning you and someone not owning you...I'm not saying that working conditions were right at that time, but I wouldn't call it slavery or equal it with that.

You feel like you are owned when you have no right to leave your job whatsoever and signs around your town are posted up saying "Irish need not apply". The Irish were treated like dogs, believe my my ancestors went through it.

[Kghadial]

Indiana is so conservative for one simple reason:

It's the south, without the African-Americans.

Admittedly the northern lake area counties are part of the North and thus make Indiana a little closer to the center than the deep south (Carolinas, Georgia minus Atlanta, ala. , miss. , etc. ) if they all of a sudden lost all their African Americans.

Ohio and Illinois is much the same but they have far larger areas where the white folk are northern white folk, rather than southern white folk. Sorry if that seems offensive, but there really isn't a better way to put it, each minority type varies somewhat by region but caucasians vary wildly by region, some whites are new england liberals, and some are bible belt conservatives and the midwest is where they mix .

My theory on the Klan being so strong in Indiana is that they found it to be a haven of like minded people without too many of the people they hated (er ... still hate) being around.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Indiana is so conservative for one simple reason:

It's the south, without the African-Americans.

Admittedly the northern lake area counties are part of the North and thus make Indiana a little closer to the center than the deep south (Carolinas, Georgia minus Atlanta, ala. , miss. , etc. ) if they all of a sudden lost all their African Americans.

Ohio and Illinois is much the same but they have far larger areas where the white folk are northern white folk, rather than southern white folk. Sorry if that seems offensive, but there really isn't a better way to put it, each minority type varies somewhat by region but caucasians vary wildly by region, some whites are new england liberals, and some are bible belt conservatives and the midwest is where they mix .

My theory on the Klan being so strong in Indiana is that they found it to be a haven of like minded people without too many of the people they hated (er ... still hate) being around.

Aaah... but the South of the state is more Democrat than the "GOP since 1856" Corn Belt

[??????????]

Of course, Indiana is like two seperate states. Thousands of Indianans fought for the south during the war.

[ilikeverin]

Indianans

HOOSIERS!  HOOSIERS!  ((hem... I'm crazy... yes... feel free to ignore this post))

[Gustaf]

Indiana used to be more Democratic in the old days. It voted for Cleveland in 1892 and was close in 1896, 1900 and 1908, to name a few. Wilson won it clearly in 1912 and only lost there by a small margin in 1916.

To me it seems like Indiana is basically more Southern than most other Northern states, and thus more likely to vote with the South. That means GOP nowadfays.