MA: Charities Regulation Commission (Failed)

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

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Sponsor: Afleitch

[California8429]

I'm just telling you now I won't sign the bill with 2c in there. But I'm pretty sure that comes as no surprise to you. However I am not at all opposed to the bill having text stating that no charity that is also a religious organization or anything close, can deny it's services to someone of another religion (though there is nothing wrong with having a particular group to focus on with the same religion)

[RIP Robert H Bork]

Strongly oppose. Unless 2c is removed, I encourage the Governor to veto.

[afleitch]

Can you justify why the state should recognise churche's as charities?

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

I think it's pretty simple. If  a churches do charity work they're a charity, if they don't do charity work they're not a charity.

I see no reason why a church that puts up soup kitchen to feed the homeless, should be treated any differently than another organisation that does the same, while churches that don't have any charity programs shouldn't be treated as charities.

 

[California8429]

Can you justify why the state should recognise churche's as charities?

See SC's answer. And there have been success reform programs that bring faith into the picture and have better results. Look at what W did in Texas for prisoners. Good can come out of it. If you don't believe in a God, that's fine with me, but faith can help and propell those who need help in their life. We shouldn't deny them this.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Perhaps a definition of "charity" is in order, instead of just saying who's not a charity.

[afleitch]

I think it's pretty simple. If  a churches do charity work they're a charity, if they don't do charity work they're not a charity.

I see no reason why a church that puts up soup kitchen to feed the homeless, should be treated any differently than another organisation that does the same, while churches that don't have any charity programs shouldn't be treated as charities.

 

I don't disagree, but what should be treated as a charity; the church body itself or a seperate 'arm' of the church that does charitable things? Note that the bill states that a 'congregation' cannot be considered a charity. There is nothing to stop a St John's Catholic Church setting up a small volunteer charity affiliated with that runs a soup kitchen...but the Church itself cannot be a charity. It's for auditing and accountancy purposes.

Reading the bill would help guys

Perhaps a definition of "charity" is in order, instead of just saying who's not a charity.

That can be arranged.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

what is the intention behind 2b?

[afleitch]

what is the intention behind 2b?

Very straightforward; you cannot be a registered charity if you espouse ideals contrary to the constitution.

[California8429]

what is the intention behind 2b?

Very straightforward; you cannot be a registered charity if you espouse ideals contrary to the constitution.

Isn't it dangerous to say "support" though? I mean I don't have a problem with the charity as long as they obey the constitution, but if they voice their displeasure with it with their freedom of speech, I don't see a problem with that.

[afleitch]

what is the intention behind 2b?

Very straightforward; you cannot be a registered charity if you espouse ideals contrary to the constitution.

Isn't it dangerous to say "support" though? I mean I don't have a problem with the charity as long as they obey the constitution, but if they voice their displeasure with it with their freedom of speech, I don't see a problem with that.

But the issue is over charitable status (and associated perks) It should not be in the government's interest to give tax breaks to organisations supporting unconstitutional measures.

[California8429]

what is the intention behind 2b?

Very straightforward; you cannot be a registered charity if you espouse ideals contrary to the constitution.

Isn't it dangerous to say "support" though? I mean I don't have a problem with the charity as long as they obey the constitution, but if they voice their displeasure with it with their freedom of speech, I don't see a problem with that.

But the issue is over charitable status (and associated perks) It should not be in the government's interest to give tax breaks to organisations supporting unconstitutional measures.

To be clear though, you're saying if someone from the potential charity states their disagreement with our constitution, they would exempt them from getting benefits to help them provide for others and turn around lives?

[afleitch]

what is the intention behind 2b?

Very straightforward; you cannot be a registered charity if you espouse ideals contrary to the constitution.

Isn't it dangerous to say "support" though? I mean I don't have a problem with the charity as long as they obey the constitution, but if they voice their displeasure with it with their freedom of speech, I don't see a problem with that.

But the issue is over charitable status (and associated perks) It should not be in the government's interest to give tax breaks to organisations supporting unconstitutional measures.

To be clear though, you're saying if someone from the potential charity states their disagreement with our constitution, they would exempt them from getting benefits to help them provide for others and turn around lives?

Yes. I really am scratching my head here; do you think we should give benefits to charities that oppose the constitution? Say (Godwin's law/Seinfeld reference here) the local Nazi Group that believes in racial supremacy and the ending of democracy runs a soup kitchen; should we be able to give it regional funds to do so and recognise it as a charity?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Afleitch, did you have an idea of what you wanted to define a charity as?

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Would there be any cost of running the comission or anything like that?

[Badger]

What is the imputus behind this bill anyway? Why on earth do we need this, Inks? Has something in RL inspired this?

[afleitch]

I'm withdrawing this bill. I feel I have done my best to explain precisely why certain provisions were included in the bill but the support is clearly not there; charities shall remain unregulated! Huzzah!

I'm off to set one up and siphon the funds

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I'm withdrawing this bill. I feel I have done my best to explain precisely why certain provisions were included in the bill but the support is clearly not there; charities shall remain unregulated! Huzzah!

I'm off to set one up and siphon the funds

For the record, I'm not against it, but if it's your wish, so be it.