Is there a way to short bonds?
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  Is there a way to short bonds?
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Author Topic: Is there a way to short bonds?  (Read 789 times)
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jmfcst
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« on: May 12, 2011, 12:13:15 PM »

this guy says to short bonds....but I didnt think there was a way to short bonds

http://www.cnbc.com/id/42985646
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2011, 03:52:27 PM »

You can short US Treasuries and bond ETFs without too much difficulty.  Individual corporate or government bonds that are thinly traded, would be much riskier since there is a good chance there wouldn't be one to buy later to cover the short.
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Beet
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« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2011, 12:44:14 PM »

In theory, yes. If you have $500,000 you could buy a Credit Default Swap. You could enter into a Forward Rate Agreement (FRA) to sell the right to borrow at a certain interest rate in the future, using your desired Treasury rate as the benchmark rate. In practice, no, although there are ETFs correlated with short Treasuries. Because of lack of sophistication and demand among small investors, no one has yet offered these OTC options through retail brokerage. If you know of any firms I'd be very interested.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2011, 05:58:34 AM »

I used to wonder that in finance class. Of course, I suppose you could always borrow money?
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Torie
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« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2011, 07:28:36 PM »

I used to wonder that in finance class. Of course, I suppose you could always borrow money?

Exactly. Why do you think I secured some 30 year fixed mortgages at 4.5%?  You can use derivatives to short as well.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2011, 08:25:26 PM »

I used to wonder that in finance class. Of course, I suppose you could always borrow money?

Exactly. Why do you think I secured some 30 year fixed mortgages at 4.5%?  You can use derivatives to short as well.

The problem with that is the mortgaged asset can change in value as well, making it no longer a pure play on interest rates.
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Sam Spade
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« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2011, 08:29:38 PM »

Rogers is smart, but usually early.  Sometimes 30 years early.  Not that early here, I suspect.

Other than that, I can only echo what's been said here.  There are ETFs to short bond futures.  And derivatives can be used to short, as always.
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Torie
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« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2011, 10:02:03 PM »

I used to wonder that in finance class. Of course, I suppose you could always borrow money?

Exactly. Why do you think I secured some 30 year fixed mortgages at 4.5%?  You can use derivatives to short as well.

The problem with that is the mortgaged asset can change in value as well, making it no longer a pure play on interest rates.

Well assuming that you have no intention of selling the mortgaged asset, at the margin it is a pure play -  pure as the driven snow. Smiley
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CitizenX
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« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2011, 07:55:37 PM »
« Edited: June 02, 2011, 10:00:39 PM by CitizenX »

this guy says to short bonds....but I didnt think there was a way to short bonds


Repurchase agreement.  The pros play the game on a level you and your friends could never imagine.  Trust me the Dems know what they are talking about when they want to protect the broader society from the machinations of this strata of society.  Unfortunately I'm not necessarily sure they know how to do it effectively.

You want to blindly follow this guy's advice about the economy and bonds and you don't know what a repurchase agreement is?  Please tell me you don't vote on issues regarding financial regulation.
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