Nassau Republicans rushing through redistricting for Legislature

[Smash255]

Currently the GOP has an 11-8 edge in the Nassau Legislator.   The last redistricting occurred prior to the 2003 election (which actually followed the charter which called for a commission to be set up 18 months prior to the election,  new districts made public 10 months prior, and approved 8 months prior).

Well Nassau County Presiding Officer (and resident Scumbag) Peter Schmitt along with County Attorney John Campoli (a former GOP election attorney) have decided to skip all that, citing one portion of the charter (while leaving the rest of it out). 

They are claiming that it in part needs to be rushed due to minority growth, as it will now create three minority districts, the 2003 had two.   However, due to growth, we currently have three minority districts, and the third district actually has more minorities in it than the new proposed district.

The GOP is also splitting up minority districts, Hempstead will be split, as will Elmont.  They are also splitting the Five Towns region as well as Great Neck (both areas with a large Jewish population.  On top of that they have drawn multiple Democrats into the same district Denenberg and Scannell into one and Jacobs  and Yatauro into one (Yatauro does look like she will retire though), but no Republicans were drawn together.

They are also doing this in mostly secrecy, it was quite hard to find a concise map of the newly proposed districts until last week (vote in the legislature which will likely be along party lines will be next week).  They refused to hold more than one public hearing on the issue, didn't give out any maps to those at the meeting, and held the meeting at 10 AM on a Monday Morning.


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[cinyc]

Are Nassau County legislative elections being held this year?  If so, why shouldn't Nassau redistrict this year?  The census data is available.

Other New York counties are redistricting county board seats before their 2011 elections.  I think I read that Rockland County has adopted a new redistricting plan and the Westchester County legislators are trying to ram their plan through, too, splitting cities and towns to get the desired pro-Democratic incumbent result.

[Smash255]

Are Nassau County legislative elections being held this year?  If so, why shouldn't Nassau redistrict this year?  The census data is available.

Other New York counties are redistricting county board seats before their 2011 elections.  I think I read that Rockland County has adopted a new redistricting plan and the Westchester County legislators are trying to ram their plan through, too, splitting cities and towns to get the desired pro-Democratic incumbent result.

The county charter makes quite clear the amount of time that should be given prior to redistricting, as well as the process for redistricting.  Hearings, public input, etc.  The last redistricting was done prior to the 03 elections.  Peter Schmitt who was Minority Leader back in 01, was not jumping up and down an demanding the districts be drawn prior to the 01 Election, even though the 2000 census came out at about the same time in 01 as the 2010 census did this year.

Anyway, this has been halted for now at least.


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[BigSkyBob]

Are Nassau County legislative elections being held this year?  If so, why shouldn't Nassau redistrict this year?  The census data is available.

Other New York counties are redistricting county board seats before their 2011 elections.  I think I read that Rockland County has adopted a new redistricting plan and the Westchester County legislators are trying to ram their plan through, too, splitting cities and towns to get the desired pro-Democratic incumbent result.

The county charter makes quite clear the amount of time that should be given prior to redistricting, as well as the process for redistricting.  Hearings, public input, etc.  The last redistricting was done prior to the 03 elections.  Peter Schmitt who was Minority Leader back in 01, was not jumping up and down an demanding the districts be drawn prior to the 01 Election, even though the 2000 census came out at about the same time in 01 as the 2010 census did this year.

Anyway, this has been halted for now at least.


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Again, Democrats in Mississippi are arguing in federal court that federal law finds it is unacceptable to hold an '01 election on 11 year old census data.


Did they mean it? Or does it only apply when it is convenient to Democrats?

[Brittain33]

Members of the Mississippi legislature don't share a brain or agenda with Dems in the Nassau County Legislature.

[cinyc]

Given that New York's primaries are still held in September, I really don't see why any districted county or municipality that holds district-level elections in November 2011 shouldn't redistrict before then.   There are a few months to come up with a plan.  The data has been available since late March, and with computers, it doesn't take months to come up with a new plan.  As I said, Rockland and Westchester have already passed new plans.  Suffolk has an independent commission which should be hard at work drawing new lines.  I don't think New York City holds elections this year.

Nassau County is quite right that it could get sued in federal court if it does not create another minority-majority district this cycle.  On the other hand, it should be following its charter to the extent it is not trumped by federal law.

[BigSkyBob]

Members of the Mississippi legislature don't share a brain or agenda with Dems in the Nassau County Legislature.

They do share the same federal Constitution.


Well, does, or does not, the Constitution preclude holding elections based on 11 year old data?

[Brittain33]

Members of the Mississippi legislature don't share a brain or agenda with Dems in the Nassau County Legislature.

They do share the same federal Constitution.


Well, does, or does not, the Constitution preclude holding elections based on 11 year old data?

It's the whole, "A Dem did this here and another Dem did something here, I'm outraged at the hypocrisy! You are all guilty!" shtick.

[BigSkyBob]

Members of the Mississippi legislature don't share a brain or agenda with Dems in the Nassau County Legislature.

They do share the same federal Constitution.


Well, does, or does not, the Constitution preclude holding elections based on 11 year old data?

It's the whole, "A Dem did this here and another Dem did something here, I'm outraged at the hypocrisy! You are all guilty!" shtick.

Well, as long as a certain group believes that power is what matters, and things like honesty and intellectual consistency are for the other guy, that group is going to be challenged time after time for their blatent hypocrisy until they are forced to reconsider their tactics.


Surely, you believe that Federal Courts should issue consistent rulings everwhere in America? Right?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Every time I see a story about Nassau politics, I stop and wonder why Bahamian politics are being discussed here before I realize which Nassau you are talking about.

[Smash255]

Given that New York's primaries are still held in September, I really don't see why any districted county or municipality that holds district-level elections in November 2011 shouldn't redistrict before then.   There are a few months to come up with a plan.  The data has been available since late March, and with computers, it doesn't take months to come up with a new plan.  As I said, Rockland and Westchester have already passed new plans.  Suffolk has an independent commission which should be hard at work drawing new lines.  I don't think New York City holds elections this year.

Nassau County is quite right that it could get sued in federal court if it does not create another minority-majority district this cycle.  On the other hand, it should be following its charter to the extent it is not trumped by federal law.

The ballot petitions start going out June 7th, that is not nearly enough time to go through the process put forth in the County charter.

The third minority district is already there, in fact under the current lines that district has a larger minority population than the one just drawn.

[cinyc]

Given that New York's primaries are still held in September, I really don't see why any districted county or municipality that holds district-level elections in November 2011 shouldn't redistrict before then.   There are a few months to come up with a plan.  The data has been available since late March, and with computers, it doesn't take months to come up with a new plan.  As I said, Rockland and Westchester have already passed new plans.  Suffolk has an independent commission which should be hard at work drawing new lines.  I don't think New York City holds elections this year.

Nassau County is quite right that it could get sued in federal court if it does not create another minority-majority district this cycle.  On the other hand, it should be following its charter to the extent it is not trumped by federal law.

The ballot petitions start going out June 7th, that is not nearly enough time to go through the process put forth in the County charter.

The third minority district is already there, in fact under the current lines that district has a larger minority population than the one just drawn.

Then perhaps the charter's process needs to be replaced.  There is zero reason why a New York municipality holding elections in 2011 can't redistrict by June.  The necessary census data has been publicly available since late March.   Yes, it's tight, but a quasi-independent commission could have been appointed before the census data was available, not after it.

[Smash255]

Given that New York's primaries are still held in September, I really don't see why any districted county or municipality that holds district-level elections in November 2011 shouldn't redistrict before then.   There are a few months to come up with a plan.  The data has been available since late March, and with computers, it doesn't take months to come up with a new plan.  As I said, Rockland and Westchester have already passed new plans.  Suffolk has an independent commission which should be hard at work drawing new lines.  I don't think New York City holds elections this year.

Nassau County is quite right that it could get sued in federal court if it does not create another minority-majority district this cycle.  On the other hand, it should be following its charter to the extent it is not trumped by federal law.

The ballot petitions start going out June 7th, that is not nearly enough time to go through the process put forth in the County charter.

The third minority district is already there, in fact under the current lines that district has a larger minority population than the one just drawn.

Then perhaps the charter's process needs to be replaced.  There is zero reason why a New York municipality holding elections in 2011 can't redistrict by June.  The necessary census data has been publicly available since late March.   Yes, it's tight, but a quasi-independent commission could have been appointed before the census data was available, not after it.

The commission could have been appointed then, but it wasn't.  This came out of nowhere a few weeks ago.  No quasi Independent Commission was set up prior to the release of the data, or even after it.  An announcement came out of nowhere a few weeks ago, it was drawn by a former GOP election attorney, virtually no notice was given.  The maps were only made available last week, only one public hearing was held (this past Monday at 10AM)

[cinyc]

The commission could have been appointed then, but it wasn't.  This came out of nowhere a few weeks ago.  No quasi Independent Commission was set up prior to the release of the data, or even after it.  An announcement came out of nowhere a few weeks ago, it was drawn by a former GOP election attorney, virtually no notice was given.  The maps were only made available last week, only one public hearing was held (this past Monday at 10AM)

I'm not saying that the process to attempt to adopt a new map didn't stink.  The county charter should be followed to the extent it doesn't conflict with state or federal law.  But that there would otherwise be an election under old lines when there is time to adopt new ones, as other New York counties have done, stinks, too.

[BigSkyBob]

Given that New York's primaries are still held in September, I really don't see why any districted county or municipality that holds district-level elections in November 2011 shouldn't redistrict before then.   There are a few months to come up with a plan.  The data has been available since late March, and with computers, it doesn't take months to come up with a new plan.  As I said, Rockland and Westchester have already passed new plans.  Suffolk has an independent commission which should be hard at work drawing new lines.  I don't think New York City holds elections this year.

Nassau County is quite right that it could get sued in federal court if it does not create another minority-majority district this cycle.  On the other hand, it should be following its charter to the extent it is not trumped by federal law.

The ballot petitions start going out June 7th, that is not nearly enough time to go through the process put forth in the County charter.

The third minority district is already there, in fact under the current lines that district has a larger minority population than the one just drawn.

Then perhaps the charter's process needs to be replaced.  There is zero reason why a New York municipality holding elections in 2011 can't redistrict by June.  The necessary census data has been publicly available since late March.   Yes, it's tight, but a quasi-independent commission could have been appointed before the census data was available, not after it.

The commission could have been appointed then, but it wasn't.  This came out of nowhere a few weeks ago.  No quasi Independent Commission was set up prior to the release of the data, or even after it.  An announcement came out of nowhere a few weeks ago, it was drawn by a former GOP election attorney, virtually no notice was given.  The maps were only made available last week, only one public hearing was held (this past Monday at 10AM)

I would note that the right to equal representative in the legislature is a Right of the people of the county, and not a priviledge of the county.  If they are entitled to equal representation, then no technical or procedural error by the county forfeits that right of the people.

[Smash255]

The commission could have been appointed then, but it wasn't.  This came out of nowhere a few weeks ago.  No quasi Independent Commission was set up prior to the release of the data, or even after it.  An announcement came out of nowhere a few weeks ago, it was drawn by a former GOP election attorney, virtually no notice was given.  The maps were only made available last week, only one public hearing was held (this past Monday at 10AM)

I'm not saying that the process to attempt to adopt a new map didn't stink.  The county charter should be followed to the extent it doesn't conflict with state or federal law.  But that there would otherwise be an election under old lines when there is time to adopt new ones, as other New York counties have done, stinks, too.

A little more on it

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http://www.antonnews.com/massapequanobserver/news/15100-nassau-county-legislature-holds-first-hearing-on-redistricting-proposal.html

Ciampoli is the one who drew the lines.  So it basically looks like they are trying to rush and get this past, and then follow the actual rules set forth in the charter and redistrict again for 2013.   So it basically seems like they aren't redistricting now for the next ten years, but trying to redistrict now to make sure they have the power for the official redistricting before the 2013 election.  

 Republicans have three potentially vulnerable members, John Ciotti in the 3rd, Jeffery Toback in the 7th, and Joe Belesi in the 14th (which is my district).  The 7th and the 14th were previously held by Democrats in which the GOP picked up in 09, the 3rd is a seat they have held, but is in a Democratic area.   Its all about redistricting now so they can save those three, so they are the ones in control when the full redistricting process takes place.

[cinyc]

Well, Nassau County's charter seems to say something close to what the county's attorney says it does.  Section 112(2) does require the Legislature to pass a local law redistricting the county within six months after the census data is released:

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The second sentence is important - because one of the current districts gained a lot of population, they can't just readopt the current lines.  It's outside of the permitted 10% deviation - i.e. off average district size by more than 5%.  Granted, the Nassau Legislature has until the end of September to adopt a new plan (IIRC, NY census data was released to the public on March 24) - but adopting a plan before the petition process begins makes sense, too, as you wouldn't want a situation where opponents run in a district in which they don't live and would have to move. 

Then, under Section 113, a temporary districting advisory commission is appointed to draw final new lines.  Members must be appointed to that commission some time between March and May 2002 - i.e. "no earlier than one year and eight months before, and no later than one year and six months before, the general election of the county legislators to be held in the year two thousand and three and every ten years thereafter".  The commission has a 10 month term and must provide one or more plans to the County Legislature by January 2003.  The County Legislature has to vote on the plans and/or adopt one of its own by March 2003.
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That the party in control of the Nassau Legislature is ramming through a plan that benefits itself is nothing new.  The same thing happened in Westchester, except Democrats benefited.  Republicans raised a stink and are threatening to sue there.

[Smash255]

Well, Nassau County's charter seems to say something close to what the county's attorney says it does.  Section 112(2) does require the Legislature to pass a local law redistricting the county within six months after the census data is released:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The second sentence is important - because one of the current districts gained a lot of population, they can't just readopt the current lines.  It's outside of the permitted 10% deviation - i.e. off average district size by more than 5%.  Granted, the Nassau Legislature has until the end of September to adopt a new plan (IIRC, NY census data was released to the public on March 24) - but adopting a plan before the petition process begins makes sense, too, as you wouldn't want a situation where opponents run in a district in which they don't live and would have to move. 

Then, under Section 113, a temporary districting advisory commission is appointed to draw final new lines.  Members must be appointed to that commission some time between March and May 2002 - i.e. "no earlier than one year and eight months before, and no later than one year and six months before, the general election of the county legislators to be held in the year two thousand and three and every ten years thereafter".  The commission has a 10 month term and must provide one or more plans to the County Legislature by January 2003.  The County Legislature has to vote on the plans and/or adopt one of its own by March 2003.
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That the party in control of the Nassau Legislature is ramming through a plan that benefits itself is nothing new.  The same thing happened in Westchester, except Democrats benefited.  Republicans raised a stink and are threatening to sue there.

The Nassau Legislature was set up in the mid 90's, the charter makes perfectly clear that the first redistricting would take place prior to the 2003 elections, with the process starting 18 months prior to that.  And then once its complete repeating every ten years. 

Peter Schmitt was Minority Leader back in 2001, he did not make a big stink about forcing redistricting then.  If he felt it was this important he obviously would have pushed for it then, but he didn't.

 The charter makes clear it needs to start eighteen months before the elections, maps released to the public ten months before, and approved eight months before.   It makes it clear that it needs to be done through a bi-partisan commission, makes no mention of a county attorney who is a former election attorney of drawing the lines.

They know the law requires that 18 month window, that it needs to be done prior to 2013, even Ciampoli is stating it will be done again in two years.  All of this is, is trying to make sure they control the actual legal ten year redistricting plan.  I said three of the more vulnerable Republicans were made safer, its actually four, Denise For's Long Beach district, instead of going up through Democratic leaning Oceanside goes over no population Jones Beach and jumps up to get Republican heavy Seaford.  The disaster is below.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/53991584/NasLegPlanProposal-Countywide?

[cinyc]

Your interpretation of the Nassau County Charter is simply incorrect.  Section 112 requires a reapportionment before the 2011 election - which, arguably, is also required under federal OMOV principles, anyway.  That the Nassau Democrats supposedly shirked this responsibility in 2001 is wholly irrelevant, especially if nobody could have sued in federal court because the districts were within permitted population variance even after the 2000 census.  That simply isn't the case now - one district has far too much excess population, which needs to go into another district.

[BigSkyBob]

Your interpretation of the Nassau County Charter is simply incorrect.  Section 112 requires a reapportionment before the 2011 election - which, arguably, is also required under federal OMOV principles, anyway.  That the Nassau Democrats supposedly shirked this responsibility in 2001 is wholly irrelevant, especially if nobody could have sued in federal court because the districts were within permitted population variance even after the 2000 census.  That simply isn't the case now - one district has far too much excess population, which needs to go into another district.

The federal precedent in Mississippi in 2000 was that older data was okay for one year, but, not for four years. Presumably, an election in 2011, and special election in 2012 would be possible. Apparently, the precedent for 2010 in Mississippi will be that older malapportioned districts are not acceptable for even one year.


Again, I would note that it was Democrats in Mississippi whom asked to courts to rule that malapportioned districts were not acceptable in 2011.

[BigSkyBob]

P.S. Didn't someone note that the Democrats in various states use the same law firms for redistricting?

[Smash255]

Your interpretation of the Nassau County Charter is simply incorrect.  Section 112 requires a reapportionment before the 2011 election - which, arguably, is also required under federal OMOV principles, anyway.  That the Nassau Democrats supposedly shirked this responsibility in 2001 is wholly irrelevant, especially if nobody could have sued in federal court because the districts were within permitted population variance even after the 2000 census.  That simply isn't the case now - one district has far too much excess population, which needs to go into another district.

Section 113 & 114 make clear that it must start eighteen months prior to the election.  With the maps released ten months prior to the election.  Have input from a bi-partisan panel.  Its quite clear that the first redistricting would occur in 2003 and then every ten years thereafter. 

[Napoleon]

P.S. Didn't someone note that the Democrats in various states use the same law firms for redistricting?

Some do but not all of them obviously.

[cinyc]

Your interpretation of the Nassau County Charter is simply incorrect.  Section 112 requires a reapportionment before the 2011 election - which, arguably, is also required under federal OMOV principles, anyway.  That the Nassau Democrats supposedly shirked this responsibility in 2001 is wholly irrelevant, especially if nobody could have sued in federal court because the districts were within permitted population variance even after the 2000 census.  That simply isn't the case now - one district has far too much excess population, which needs to go into another district.

Section 113 & 114 make clear that it must start eighteen months prior to the election.  With the maps released ten months prior to the election.  Have input from a bi-partisan panel.  Its quite clear that the first redistricting would occur in 2003 and then every ten years thereafter.  

Again, please read the charter.  It's not quite clear, as you claim, that the first redistricting occurs in 2003 and every 10 years after.  You simply cannot read Section 112 out of the charter just because you don't like the results.  That section REQUIRES that the county legislature redraw the maps within 6 months after getting Census data:

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County Legislature SHALL within 6 months after the public announcement of EACH census commencing (i.e. BEGINNING) with the 2000 Census.  County legislature - not the redistricting commission.  6 months, not 2.5 years.  Each census, not just the 2000 census.

From what I understand, the Nassau Legislature DID pass a local law in 2001, readopting the pre-2001 lines.  That would be permissible if those lines didn't violate OMOV principles at the time.  And, from what I understand, the current lines DO violate OMOV principles and, thus, need to be redrawn.  The legislature clearly has to adopt a plan before the 2011 election under Section 112.

[Smash255]

Your interpretation of the Nassau County Charter is simply incorrect.  Section 112 requires a reapportionment before the 2011 election - which, arguably, is also required under federal OMOV principles, anyway.  That the Nassau Democrats supposedly shirked this responsibility in 2001 is wholly irrelevant, especially if nobody could have sued in federal court because the districts were within permitted population variance even after the 2000 census.  That simply isn't the case now - one district has far too much excess population, which needs to go into another district.

Section 113 & 114 make clear that it must start eighteen months prior to the election.  With the maps released ten months prior to the election.  Have input from a bi-partisan panel.  Its quite clear that the first redistricting would occur in 2003 and then every ten years thereafter.  

Again, please read the charter.  It's not quite clear, as you claim, that the first redistricting occurs in 2003 and every 10 years after.  You simply cannot read Section 112 out of the charter just because you don't like the results.  That section REQUIRES that the county legislature redraw the maps within 6 months after getting Census data:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

County Legislature SHALL within 6 months after the public announcement of EACH census commencing (i.e. BEGINNING) with the 2000 Census.  County legislature - not the redistricting commission.  6 months, not 2.5 years.  Each census, not just the 2000 census.

From what I understand, the Nassau Legislature DID pass a local law in 2001, readopting the pre-2001 lines.  That would be permissible if those lines didn't violate OMOV principles at the time.  And, from what I understand, the current lines DO violate OMOV principles and, thus, need to be redrawn.  The legislature clearly has to adopt a plan before the 2011 election under Section 112.

It does NOT state that, it mentions 6 months, but has no mention of that election, the 6 months would be a mere 5 or 6 weeks prior to the actual election.   It is required to have a bi-partisan commission, it is required to start at least 18 months prior to the next election, it is required to be given at least ten months notice for the maps to be made public, it is required for the approval to be made at least 8 months prior, it is required that the first redistricting to be completed for the 2003 elections and then every ten years after.  NONE of those things are being followed.