Bush v. Gore
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  Bush v. Gore
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Author Topic: Bush v. Gore  (Read 1646 times)
Del Tachi
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« on: June 01, 2011, 04:12:25 PM »

Looking a few pages back, I was unable to find a thread on this topic.  I thought the forum deserved one.

So, the simple question is...did the Supreme Court get it right?  Was the Florida recount unconstitutional?

IMO, the recount was unconstitutional.  Under the rules of the Florida recount, a ballot marked a certain way in one county could be counted as a vote but a ballot marked in an identical manner in another county could not count as a vote.  This appears to be in clear violation of the 14th Amendment's equal protection cause.

Gore should have called for a statewide recount with objective standards from the git-go.  Then, he would have been the president.   
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2011, 06:34:13 PM »

So, the simple question is...did the Supreme Court get it right?  Was the Florida recount unconstitutional?
No. Whether the Florida recount was valid under Florida law was not a Federal issue.

Whether Congress ultimately accepted the results of a Florida recount would have been a Federal issue, but one to be dealt with by Congress, not the Supreme Court.
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Del Tachi
Republican95
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« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2011, 10:16:18 PM »

So, the simple question is...did the Supreme Court get it right?  Was the Florida recount unconstitutional?
No. Whether the Florida recount was valid under Florida law was not a Federal issue.

Whether Congress ultimately accepted the results of a Florida recount would have been a Federal issue, but one to be dealt with by Congress, not the Supreme Court.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Florida election a federal issue because it was a federal election?  Otherwise, how did the SCOTUS claim jurisdiction?
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Franzl
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« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2011, 04:55:00 AM »

So, the simple question is...did the Supreme Court get it right?  Was the Florida recount unconstitutional?
No. Whether the Florida recount was valid under Florida law was not a Federal issue.

Whether Congress ultimately accepted the results of a Florida recount would have been a Federal issue, but one to be dealt with by Congress, not the Supreme Court.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Florida election a federal issue because it was a federal election?  Otherwise, how did the SCOTUS claim jurisdiction?

The manner in which electors are selected is determined by the states.
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Del Tachi
Republican95
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« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2011, 01:41:09 PM »

So, the simple question is...did the Supreme Court get it right?  Was the Florida recount unconstitutional?
No. Whether the Florida recount was valid under Florida law was not a Federal issue.

Whether Congress ultimately accepted the results of a Florida recount would have been a Federal issue, but one to be dealt with by Congress, not the Supreme Court.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Florida election a federal issue because it was a federal election?  Otherwise, how did the SCOTUS claim jurisdiction?

The manner in which electors are selected is determined by the states.

But if the electors were selected in a manner that violated the 14th Amendment, how is that not a federal concern?
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2011, 07:33:28 PM »

But if the electors were selected in a manner that violated the 14th Amendment, how is that not a federal concern?
It's a federal concern, but not a Supreme Court concern. The Federal law concerning the selection of Presidential electors makes it quite clear that Congress left to itself the determination of whether electors have been validly elected.

The principle error the court made was in interpreting the safe harbor deadline in 3 USC 5.

It certainly is not a hard deadline as Title 5 Chapter 1 has provisions in it for what would happen if it is missed, and those provisions call for Congress to make the decision, not the Supreme Court.

As for interpreting the intent of the Florida Legislature in its desire to reach that safe harbor, that was an issue that should have been left to the Florida Supreme Court and ultimately the United States Congress to decide.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2011, 08:02:22 PM »

It was a VERY messy situation - legally.

The Gore campaign made a MASSIVE political mistake which set-up failure, requesting hand-recounts in only heavilyy democratic counties. They lost the public argument about ensuring 'every vote is counted' from that point on. Gore should have asked for a state-wide hand recount.

The Bush argument was based, as you say, on the 14th amendment - namely the different standards being applied across the various counties was a violation.

Gore argued that there was a standard, the 'intent of the voter' issue - which I thought was shaky legal ground. However, where Gore was on firmer ground was the concept since with under/over-votes on punch cards there are often calls for a subjective call to be made on a card... then there is in effect different counting standards across the country, and if the count was unconstitutional on those grounds, then every other election that used different standards within a jurisdiction was also invalid.

The other issue was the 12 December cut-off for the votes to be received - to fit within the '6-days prior clause' - as the electors were due to meet on 18 December.

The legal remedies the USSC put in place, I felt were the issue, rather than the legal arguments. Since they decided that no legal recount would be completed by 12 December... they allowed the current certification to stand.

In my view, the Court should have stood by the Florida Supreme Court and done two things...

1. Order the Secretary of State to push back the meeting of the electors to December 22, which would have given them another 4 days for the Florida Supreme Court to determine a standard and undertake the recount.

2. Order a state-wide, manual hand-recount.  

Which was the position of Justices Breyer and Souter Tongue

As I said, I don't have an issue with their legal decision, I do have serious issues with the form of their remedies, which I do think showed a politically driven desire to see the count ended in Bush's favour.
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Bacon King
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« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2011, 07:24:58 PM »

One thing to note here- there was at the time absolutely no legal mechanism for requesting a statewide recount in Florida; they had to be requested on the county level. Gore simply requested recounts where they'd had reports of irregularities.

Also, the second half of the decision was utter hogwash.
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Peter
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« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2011, 03:15:39 PM »

This got argued a few years ago:

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=31648.0
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