100% of rapes in Oslo in the last 5 yrs were committed by non-western immigrants

[dead0man]

pick your own poison
Translation from the NRK

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I was going to just bump this old thread, but decided to start a new thread since the rape thing was a hijack in that one.

Is this a serious problem?  If yes, is there anything that can be done that won't come across as racist or bigoted towards "browns" and Muslims?

(and yes, clearly some whitey somewhere raped somebody in Oslo in the last 5 years, that doesn't change the fact that obviously the overwhelming majority are not done by whitey despite whitey making up 75% of the population)

[patrick1]

 A person from a patriarchal society, who is an asylum seekers cut off from their typical communal ties, feels marginalized and is poorly integrated into (Norwegian) society. Thus they express their  rage and feelings of inadequacy through the violent act of rape.

^There is your boilerplate

I would defer to someone who actually knows what they are talking about for an answer or analysis. I quick look at the overall #'s and it does not look like any epidemic (of course one is too many)

[Antonio the Sixth]

Thank you, this information is really very important.
So what should be done about this ? We could put all immigrants in jail or send them back to their country, so that they couldn't rape anyone.

[dead0man]

Kicking them all out isn't the answer.  You can't blame everybody for the actions of a few.  They could maybe look a little closer at who they are letting in.  They could also deport the convicted after their prison time is up.  The leaders in the minority communities could reiterate that it isn't cool to rape the local infidels.

[Gustaf]

I remember that there was an amusing article in a Swedish paper to explain why it was right not to report on this. It went on to show that the author didn't understand statistics and employed various PC-cliches.

The subsequent racist commentary was as predictable as always, of course.

I think Patrick mostly summed up what this is about. I also think that the general unhealthy attitude towards sex in these cultures (especially towards female sexuality) contributes a lot.

And someone should probably point out that the vast majority of all rapes take place within families and this is thus a small subset of all rapes.

[Antonio the Sixth]

They could maybe look a little closer at who they are letting in.

You mean things like "oh, this guy really looks like a rapist, better not admitting him" ? It's not gonna work very fine.

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Yeah, they could. Pragmatically, that's fine, but in terms of justice it strikes me as quite unfair. Why a foreigner committing a rape should be punished more than a Norwegian for the same crime ?

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Do they say rape is all right ? If so, they can certainly be punished for that. Otherwise, can we force them ? Personally, I'd say the best thing would be if there weren't "community leaders" and possibily there weren't communities at all.

[minionofmidas]

And someone should probably point out that the vast majority of all rapes take place within families and this is thus a small subset of all rapes.

Ah, an interesting tidbit. So this is NOT the statistics on all rapes but on a particular randomly chosen subset?
It does tend to make the number a little more believable...

Of course, the cliche assault rapist here is a Russian, not a Muslim. Or a Serb. Anyways, East, not South.

[Gustaf]

And someone should probably point out that the vast majority of all rapes take place within families and this is thus a small subset of all rapes.

Ah, an interesting tidbit. So this is NOT the statistics on all rapes but on a particular randomly chosen subset?
It does tend to make the number a little more believable...

Of course, the cliche assault rapist here is a Russian, not a Muslim. Or a Serb. Anyways, East, not South.

Well, not a random subset, but as I recall this is assault rape, right? I mean, most rapes consist of a man raping his wife/girlfriend in the privacy of their home. This is "strange man jumping woman in the bushes late at night" kind of rape, which is a fairly small percentage of overall rape.

[Gustaf]

They could maybe look a little closer at who they are letting in.

You mean things like "oh, this guy really looks like a rapist, better not admitting him" ? It's not gonna work very fine.

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Yeah, they could. Pragmatically, that's fine, but in terms of justice it strikes me as quite unfair. Why a foreigner committing a rape should be punished more than a Norwegian for the same crime ?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Do they say rape is all right ? If so, they can certainly be punished for that. Otherwise, can we force them ? Personally, I'd say the best thing would be if there weren't "community leaders" and possibily there weren't communities at all.

Well, certain interpretations of the Quran* seems to say that rape is fine. Didn't Afghanistan just recently legislate that women weren't allowed to refuse sex to their husbands, for example?

And it's odd to view deportation as punishment. It's not as if foreigners have an automatic right to stay in the country anyway. People get sent away all the time for no particular reason, after all.

*Before someone says the same is true of the Bible, I want to point out that it would be irrelevant.

[dead0man]

And someone should probably point out that the vast majority of all rapes take place within families and this is thus a small subset of all rapes.

Ah, an interesting tidbit. So this is NOT the statistics on all rapes but on a particular randomly chosen subset?
It does tend to make the number a little more believable...

In the OP the police reported that these are "assault" rapes.  The presumably more common (by how much or if at all......I have no idea) date rape aren't usually classified as assault or violent.  I'm not sure of Gustaf's claim that the vast majority of rape happens inside the family unit, doesn't seem right to me.

On preview/edit, I see Gustaf is referring to wife/SO/GF rape....which I suppose makes sense.  I was thinking like dirty uncle or creepy cousin kind of thing.

[Antonio the Sixth]

And it's odd to view deportation as punishment. It's not as if foreigners have an automatic right to stay in the country anyway. People get sent away all the time for no particular reason, after all.

It is a punishment if it's a consequence of a crime committed.

[opebo]

Kicking them all out isn't the answer.  You can't blame everybody for the actions of a few. 

Actually you can, and this is an actual integral and apparently evolved part of human nature, because it works, after all, very well.  You may not choose to do this because of some idea of 'fairness' you may entertain, but nevertheless it would probably be one of the more effective ways of dealing with the problem.  It would be 'overkill' if the group being allowed entrance were considered to be a net positive because of other factors which outweighed the raping, but that seems unlikely in this case (people from less rape-prone lands could be imported to clean toilets, etc., or natives could be paid more to clean the toilets).  The final argument is that an 'open society' is worth having more rapes.  Up to you, Swedes.

[Gustaf]

Kicking them all out isn't the answer.  You can't blame everybody for the actions of a few. 

Actually you can, and this is an actual integral and apparently evolved part of human nature, because it works, after all, very well.  You may not choose to do this because of some idea of 'fairness' you may entertain, but nevertheless it would probably be one of the more effective ways of dealing with the problem.  It would be 'overkill' if the group being allowed entrance were considered to be a net positive because of other factors which outweighed the raping, but that seems unlikely in this case (people from less rape-prone lands could be imported to clean toilets, etc., or natives could be paid more to clean the toilets).  The final argument is that an 'open society' is worth having more rapes.  Up to you, Swedes.

Before you start spreading your bigotry you should perhaps be aware that Oslo lies in Norway, which is a different country from Sweden.

You countryside American hicks really are very bad when it comes to geography of the  big world out there, aren't you? 

[minionofmidas]

Oslo lies in Norway, which is a different country from Sweden.

Since when?

[opebo]

Actually you can, and this is an actual integral and apparently evolved part of human nature, because it works, after all, very well.  You may not choose to do this because of some idea of 'fairness' you may entertain, but nevertheless it would probably be one of the more effective ways of dealing with the problem.  It would be 'overkill' if the group being allowed entrance were considered to be a net positive because of other factors which outweighed the raping, but that seems unlikely in this case (people from less rape-prone lands could be imported to clean toilets, etc., or natives could be paid more to clean the toilets).  The final argument is that an 'open society' is worth having more rapes.  Up to you, Swedes.

Before you start spreading your bigotry you should perhaps be aware that Oslo lies in Norway, which is a different country from Sweden.

You countryside American hicks really are very bad when it comes to geography of the  big world out there, aren't you? 

Come on friend, as you well know, I know where just about every capital in the world lies, I just didn't read the boring thread title or article.

And also, why characterize my evenhanded depiction of the public-policy options as 'bigotry'?  I said nothing pejorative about anyone.  Just making the point that prejudices are a workable and beneficial part of our character.

[Gustaf]

Actually you can, and this is an actual integral and apparently evolved part of human nature, because it works, after all, very well.  You may not choose to do this because of some idea of 'fairness' you may entertain, but nevertheless it would probably be one of the more effective ways of dealing with the problem.  It would be 'overkill' if the group being allowed entrance were considered to be a net positive because of other factors which outweighed the raping, but that seems unlikely in this case (people from less rape-prone lands could be imported to clean toilets, etc., or natives could be paid more to clean the toilets).  The final argument is that an 'open society' is worth having more rapes.  Up to you, Swedes.

Before you start spreading your bigotry you should perhaps be aware that Oslo lies in Norway, which is a different country from Sweden.

You countryside American hicks really are very bad when it comes to geography of the  big world out there, aren't you? 

Come on friend, as you well know, I know where just about every capital in the world lies, I just didn't read the boring thread title or article.

And also, why characterize my evenhanded depiction of the public-policy options as 'bigotry'?  I said nothing pejorative about anyone.  Just making the point that prejudices are a workable and beneficial part of our character.

Saying that non-Westerners are only good for rape or toilet-cleaning seems pretty bigoted to me.

But I'm not surprised that you started talking about a topic you knew nothing about.

[Insula Dei]

Is there seriously that much of a Foreign Rapist stereotype in Germany and Scandinavia? I imagine the stereotypical rapist over here is a francophone man in a van.

[Antonio the Sixth]

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WTF is this supposed to mean ?

[J. J.]

The reason might be that most Norwegians are fair skinned and most immigrants are not.  There are relatively few immigrants and they stand out from the indigenous population. 

[Gustaf]

Is there seriously that much of a Foreign Rapist stereotype in Germany and Scandinavia? I imagine the stereotypical rapist over here is a francophone man in a van.

There are so many inappropriately racist jokes to make here, I don't even know where to begin.

But the dark people raping our blonde women thing is as old as knowledge about dark people in this part of the world, I think. It isn't helped by the fact that immigrants, especially from certain areas, are quite overrepresented in crime statistics nowadays. I wouldn't guess at rapes being one such category of crime though.

[Silent Hunter]

Kicking them all out isn't the answer.  You can't blame everybody for the actions of a few.  They could maybe look a little closer at who they are letting in.  They could also deport the convicted after their prison time is up.  The leaders in the minority communities could reiterate that it isn't cool to rape the local infidels.

I don't know about Sweden, but most foreign criminals in the UK do get deported after serving their sentences.

[Silent Hunter]

Oslo lies in Norway, which is a different country from Sweden.

Since when?

That link is dead. FWIW, Norway became independent from Sweden in 1905.

[Gustaf]

Oh, you're taking the classist view that poor people are violent rapists?

(well, actually your troll act went a little overboard with this post - I doubt anyone could think that anyone could be sufficiently deluded to believe any of that)

[opebo]

...toilet-cleaning (an honorable profession I would aver, and one which should be unionized and pay about 35 Euros per hour)  ...If I were cleaning toilets all day I'd want to rape somebody too (probably with the plunger, however, and probably not a female).

Oh, you're taking the classist view that poor people are violent rapists?

Are you incapable of reading and comprehending English? What I was implying was just violence - vengefully buggering the boss - not 'rape'.  And I only said that I would  feel like raping, I did not claim to speak for any poors - apparently they feel like  voting for Michelle Backman after cleaning toilets all day.

[Gustaf]

...toilet-cleaning (an honorable profession I would aver, and one which should be unionized and pay about 35 Euros per hour)  ...If I were cleaning toilets all day I'd want to rape somebody too (probably with the plunger, however, and probably not a female).

Oh, you're taking the classist view that poor people are violent rapists?

Are you incapable of reading and comprehending English? What I was implying was just violence - vengefully buggering the boss - not 'rape'.  And I only said that I would  feel like raping, I did not claim to speak for any poors - apparently they feel like  voting for Michelle Backman after cleaning toilets all day.

Calm down, old man. I just think you should show a little more respect to the poors you are exploiting, that's all. No need to get all aggressive about it. It's not how we rich white people are expected to behave.