Homosexuality

[TJ in Oregon]

The predisposition to same-sex attraction is probably at least in part genetic, along with some element of socialization, any activity that could affect hormone levels, etc.

But, to act upon those attractions is not genetic at all. People also have the ability to not engage in a sex act or to enter into a certain relationship. So if we take homosexuality to be an act rather than an attraction (the word 'homosexuality' may be ambiguous in this respect, though I haven't met many celibate people who experience same-sex attraction who call themselves homosexuals so I am taking it to imply that one has engaged in said acts and is not celibate), then it must be a choice as long as we accept that we have the ability to make choices, ie. free will. If we have no free will then this is all a moot point anyway, so I'd consider "lifestyle choice" to be a more representative reflection of my view than "genetic" but that I'd rather select "Both" if I could.

[TJ in Oregon]

The predisposition to same-sex attraction is probably at least in part genetic, along with some element of socialization, any activity that could affect hormone levels, etc.

But, to act upon those attractions is not genetic at all. People also have the ability to not engage in a sex act or to enter into a certain relationship. So if we take homosexuality to be an act rather than an attraction (the word 'homosexuality' may be ambiguous in this respect, though I haven't met many celibate people who experience same-sex attraction who call themselves homosexuals so I am taking it to imply that one has engaged in said acts and is not celibate), then it must be a choice as long as we accept that we have the ability to make choices, ie. free will. If we have no free will then this is all a moot point anyway, so I'd consider "lifestyle choice" to be a more representative reflection of my view than "genetic" but that I'd rather select "Both" if I could.

Breathing and eating should also be classified as "lifestyle choices" then.

It’s different, because if you don’t eat or breathe at all, you die. You can live without sexual activity, believe it or not. Before anyone says it’s impossible, I’ve made it all 22.5 years of life this far without committing a sex act, including making out and masturbation. Yes, I’ve made it through an undergraduate degree in college and at a secular research institution (with a liberal reputation at that) not a religious school. One day this may end if I find a girl I’d like to marry. If not, I might make it my whole life. It might not always be fun, pleasurable, or easy but it’s possible. Someday I might screw up and in my human imperfection engage in a sex act outside the bonds of marriage, committing a sin (though whether or not committing such an act is a sin or not is beside the point). The point is that if I do, it’s still a choice I made. There is more to life than sexual pleasure.

Eating and breathing on the other hand are required to live without artificial support. Perhaps we could argue about whether an IV constitutes “eating” or a ventilator constituted “breathing” though that is entirely semantic because and IV and a ventilator serve the same purpose as eating and breathing. I guess one could make the argument that this is a lifestyle choice too but to make the opposite choice would interfere with a person’s ability to perform other tasks required to be a functional human.

[TJ in Oregon]

The predisposition to same-sex attraction is probably at least in part genetic, along with some element of socialization, any activity that could affect hormone levels, etc.

But, to act upon those attractions is not genetic at all. People also have the ability to not engage in a sex act or to enter into a certain relationship. So if we take homosexuality to be an act rather than an attraction (the word 'homosexuality' may be ambiguous in this respect, though I haven't met many celibate people who experience same-sex attraction who call themselves homosexuals so I am taking it to imply that one has engaged in said acts and is not celibate), then it must be a choice as long as we accept that we have the ability to make choices, ie. free will. If we have no free will then this is all a moot point anyway, so I'd consider "lifestyle choice" to be a more representative reflection of my view than "genetic" but that I'd rather select "Both" if I could.

Breathing and eating should also be classified as "lifestyle choices" then.

It’s different, because if you don’t eat or breathe at all, you die. You can live without sexual activity, believe it or not. Before anyone says it’s impossible, I’ve made it all 22.5 years of life this far without committing a sex act, including making out and masturbation. Yes, I’ve made it through an undergraduate degree in college and at a secular research institution (with a liberal reputation at that) not a religious school. One day this may end if I find a girl I’d like to marry. If not, I might make it my whole life. It might not always be fun, pleasurable, or easy but it’s possible. Someday I might screw up and in my human imperfection engage in a sex act outside the bonds of marriage, committing a sin (though whether or not committing such an act is a sin or not is beside the point). The point is that if I do, it’s still a choice I made. There is more to life than sexual pleasure.

Eating and breathing on the other hand are required to live without artificial support. Perhaps we could argue about whether an IV constitutes “eating” or a ventilator constituted “breathing” though that is entirely semantic because and IV and a ventilator serve the same purpose as eating and breathing. I guess one could make the argument that this is a lifestyle choice too but to make the opposite choice would interfere with a person’s ability to perform other tasks required to be a functional human.

You don't die if you quit breathing or eating because a)  the buildup of carbon dioxide in your blood will cause so much pain and discomfort and send panic signals to your brain that you will begin breathing again or b)  you will starve only for so long before the instinct to eat kicks in and you gorge yourself at McDonalds until you're violently sick.

The same goes for sexual activity.  Seeking release that is not available through sex or masturbation, you are discharging your body's excess semen in your sleep, whether you realize it or not.  And how does your body do that?  Why.. through the orgasm, of course.

You can still choose whether to engage in a sex act with another individual.

[TJ in Oregon]

Before anyone says it’s impossible, I’ve made it all 22.5 years of life this far without committing a sex act, including making out and masturbation.

Believe me, nobody is surprised.

Haha I bet there are plenty of nerdy individuals out there like me with no gf and who don't have random hook-ups, mostly from never attending a party (though I usually go to parties as the only sober one since most of my best friends have a rather different outlook on this kind of stuff than I do) 

Actually, I was more expecting to get the "You're lying, you can't possibly expect me to believe you don't masterbate" line from people.

[TJ in Oregon]

I didn't even enjoy that sort of thing when I was 20.  Why the hell does TJ go to that sort of falling down drunk parties if he doesn't drink?

Mostly because all my friends do. I'd rather go with them than sit at home by myself every night. Usually there is a set of people only mildly drunk there in the circles I travel in, so it's not like everyone is falling down drunk. I basically just go and talk to people. And I don't try to spend every waking moment trying to convince everyone not to drink. Case is a small enough school where most people who would come already know my thoughts and telling them would be pointless.

[TJ in Oregon]

Before anyone says it’s impossible, I’ve made it all 22.5 years of life this far without committing a sex act, including making out and masturbation.

Believe me, nobody is surprised.

Haha I bet there are plenty of nerdy individuals out there like me with no gf and who don't have random hook-ups, mostly from never attending a party (though I usually go to parties as the only sober one since most of my best friends have a rather different outlook on this kind of stuff than I do) 

Actually, I was more expecting to get the "You're lying, you can't possibly expect me to believe you don't masterbate" line from people.

I actually really like the fact that you have been nothing but amicable and friendly since arriving here.  I admit my first thought was "  Another Republican from Ohio"... but you're actually just a nice guy who happens to disagree with me.

That said,

the "I'm saving myself for marriage" thing is nothing but a defense mechanism.  If you don't have the self courage to get a girl, I don't believe you'd have the courage to say no if the situation presented itself.  Just my humble opinion, of course.

Thank you very much for your compliments. I hope to always remain that way and recognize that agreement should not be necessary to treat people with respect.

As for the “saving it for marriage”, well, there’s no way I can say for certain that I will do the right thing when placed into any situation and premarital sex is no exception. It is entirely possible that I will fail and not recognizing this would be rather naïve. I hope not to, but only time will tell!

[TJ in Oregon]

What I'm saying is that it's not only individuals who are in competition mode. Even hunter gatherers didn't walk around solo. They lived in bands. Societies must be fit as well or they will be a victim to inter tribal competition. I'm suggesting that having the gays around may make for a more competitve society.

That model makes a lot of sense in a tribal setting with scarce resources because having adults without children around because providing food for children in such a setting is a huge constraint on time and resources. Extra adults would alleviate this some. It would give a reproductive advantage to being related to a gay person but not being gay. In the understanding that sexual orientation is decided by a singular recessive gene, this idea would help to make the heterozygous form more advantageous. Of course this analysis is junior high, single-gene, level and almost nothing is actually that simple. Another possibility that's somewhat likely is that it's influenced by some developmental condition, ie. the level of some hormone in utero, that appears vaguely random but not entirely. Or some combination of many different things.

[TJ in Oregon]

I never said it had to be one gene. We're very complicated creatures. It still makes sense for there to be a mechanism for having gay people around.

Oh certainly. It leading to a lack of reproduction doesn't at all mean it would die out.