Mid-Term Discussion Thread

[YRABNNRM]

Just in case anyone wants to discuss the elections without taking up room in the voting booths .

[Nym90]

Regarding the votes of EarlAW and Ethelberth, it is worth noting that EarlAW did put his state and party registration on his vote itself, even though it is not in his signature. I feel this should affect how this matter is considered.

Also, Ethelberth's vote was for Siege40, not for Bulldog/True Democrat as some have claimed. He's not in the same district as EarlAW.

[YRABNNRM]

I believe that EarlAW's vote should be counted being that he did identify his registration. I think Ethelberth's on the other hand should not. Well it's all up to the SoFA anyway.

[qwerty]

Andrew is a pussy "moderate". The word "moderate" is bad.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

If the Southeastern Voting Regiulations applied to Federal ballots, thenthere would be a number of people whose votes would be getting disqualified because of the extraneous posts.  However they don't, so they can breathe a little easier.

[King]

Alright, I think Earl's vote should count as he might have though signature being the "-Name" stuff peope do at the end of their posts and not what we call signature.

[King]

District 3

No vote

Why vote at all Dabeav

[YRABNNRM]

Andrew is a pussy "moderate". The word "moderate" is bad.

So have your parents discovered that their 8 year old son has snuck on their computer again?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

District 3

No vote

Why vote at all Dabeav

To keep from having a ★ placed beside his name in Fritz's voter list I would guess.

[Sam Spade]

I find it amusing how Atlasia imitates real life.  

The people who never can vote properly or follow the rules are always Democrats.  

[Nym90]

I find it amusing how Atlasia imitates real life. 

The people who never can vote properly or follow the rules are always Democrats. 

And those who support overly pedantic bureaucracy and blind adherence to the letter of the regulations in ignorance of the spirit of the law are always Republicans. ;-)

[Keystone Phil]

I find it amusing how Atlasia imitates real life. 

The people who never can vote properly or follow the rules are always Democrats. 

And those who support overly pedantic bureaucracy and blind adherence to the letter of the regulations in ignorance of the spirit of the law are always Republicans. ;-)

Yeah that pretty much means "Shame on Republicans for insisting that things are run in a fair manner." Terrible, isn't it Nym

[Akno21]

I find it amusing how Atlasia imitates real life. 

The people who never can vote properly or follow the rules are always Democrats. 

And those who support overly pedantic bureaucracy and blind adherence to the letter of the regulations in ignorance of the spirit of the law are always Republicans. ;-)

Yeah that pretty much means "Shame on Republicans for insisting that things are run in a fair manner." Terrible, isn't it Nym

Kinda depends how you define fair.

[KEmperor]

I find it amusing how Atlasia imitates real life. 

The people who never can vote properly or follow the rules are always Democrats. 

And those who support overly pedantic bureaucracy and blind adherence to the letter of the regulations in ignorance of the spirit of the law are always Republicans. ;-)

Yeah that pretty much means "Shame on Republicans for insisting that things are run in a fair manner." Terrible, isn't it Nym

Kinda depends how you define fair.

I know, why should we make any rules anyway?

[Keystone Phil]

I find it amusing how Atlasia imitates real life. 

The people who never can vote properly or follow the rules are always Democrats. 

And those who support overly pedantic bureaucracy and blind adherence to the letter of the regulations in ignorance of the spirit of the law are always Republicans. ;-)

Yeah that pretty much means "Shame on Republicans for insisting that things are run in a fair manner." Terrible, isn't it Nym

Kinda depends how you define fair.

Most would define fair as following the rules. Democrats define fair as "Hey...I didn't win. You cheated!"

[Akno21]

A question about the voter identification thing. If Person A votes at 7:30 without "Registered in state X" in their sig, but then at 9:30 they change it so that it does have the required information, does the vote count? Because there is no way to see what signature they had at the time of the voting. Is it just do they have that by the end of election then?

[Sam Spade]

I find it amusing how Atlasia imitates real life. 

The people who never can vote properly or follow the rules are always Democrats. 

And those who support overly pedantic bureaucracy and blind adherence to the letter of the regulations in ignorance of the spirit of the law are always Republicans. ;-)

Precisely. 

In the spirit of the law, starting at 12:00 AM Sunday, the final day of the election, I will proceed to start live bidding on my District 4 vote for Senator in a new thread.

With the close election that looks to be occuring in District 4, every vote is important, and none of these wonderful candidates (even the one who deleted himself) can afford to ignore the buying of my vote in the true fashion of the wonderful Republic of Atlasia.

Be an real Atlasian.  Screw the rules.  Buy a vote.

[Nym90]

I find it amusing how Atlasia imitates real life.

The people who never can vote properly or follow the rules are always Democrats.

And those who support overly pedantic bureaucracy and blind adherence to the letter of the regulations in ignorance of the spirit of the law are always Republicans. ;-)

Yeah that pretty much means "Shame on Republicans for insisting that things are run in a fair manner." Terrible, isn't it Nym

Kinda depends how you define fair.

I know, why should we make any rules anyway?

I never said that we shouldn't have rules. But if a preference is clearly stated, and the voter is properly registered, I think that the vote should be counted. That's what I mean by the spirit of the law, not the letter. The rules exist to ensure that votes are cast clearly and accurately. I don't see how the two votes in question weren't cast clearly. What exactly is the purpose of requiring the state of registration in the signature, anyway? I understand that it does make the SOFA's job slightly easier when he checks the votes to make sure that they are valid and cast in the proper district, but he does have a list of all registered voters and their state of registration. The information in question is already on file, I don't think it's too much trouble to look it up.

[Sam Spade]

I never said that we shouldn't have rules. But if a preference is clearly stated, and the voter is properly registered, I think that the vote should be counted. That's what I mean by the spirit of the law, not the letter. The rules exist to ensure that votes are cast clearly and accurately. I don't see how the two votes in question weren't cast clearly. What exactly is the purpose of requiring the state of registration in the signature, anyway? I understand that it does make the SOFA's job slightly easier when he checks the votes to make sure that they are valid and cast in the proper district, but he does have a list of all registered voters and their state of registration. The information in question is already on file, I don't think it's too much trouble to look it up.

If you want to change the rules, please do so before the election or after the election, not during it.

When I registered, I noted what Fritz said in the rulebook about stating what state you were registered fantasy-wise in your signature if it wasn't in your avatar and did as such.

Allowing someone to vote here who obviously can't read the rules or follow instructions is "insulting the intelligence" of other voters in Atlasia who can read rules.  It also disenfranchises those of us who vote properly by having our vote counteracted by people who haven't taken the time to follow the simple rules.

FWIW, I am in agreement with Akno21's suggestion here:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

but once again it will have to be put into effect for the next election, not this present one.  Fritz should be the final arbiter of whether these votes count or not right now and if someone challenges, it can go to the Supreme Court or a region court or whatever for a final decision.

[Nym90]

I never said that we shouldn't have rules. But if a preference is clearly stated, and the voter is properly registered, I think that the vote should be counted. That's what I mean by the spirit of the law, not the letter. The rules exist to ensure that votes are cast clearly and accurately. I don't see how the two votes in question weren't cast clearly. What exactly is the purpose of requiring the state of registration in the signature, anyway? I understand that it does make the SOFA's job slightly easier when he checks the votes to make sure that they are valid and cast in the proper district, but he does have a list of all registered voters and their state of registration. The information in question is already on file, I don't think it's too much trouble to look it up.

If you want to change the rules, please do so before the election or after the election, not during it.

When I registered, I noted what Fritz said in the rulebook about stating what state you were registered fantasy-wise in your signature if it wasn't in your avatar and did as such.

Allowing someone to vote here who obviously can't read the rules or follow instructions is "insulting the intelligence" of other voters in Atlasia who can read rules.  It also disenfranchises those of us who vote properly by having our vote counteracted by people who haven't taken the time to follow the simple rules.

FWIW, I am in agreement with Akno21's suggestion here:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

but once again it will have to be put into effect for the next election, not this present one.  Fritz should be the final arbiter of whether these votes count or not right now and if someone challenges, it can go to the Supreme Court or a region court or whatever for a final decision.

I agree that blantantly disregarding rules is a bad thing. But people disregard rules all the time when they don't make sense. Most of us, when common sense and the law conflict with each other, choose common sense. For example, most people drive over the speed limit because the speed limit is set unreasonably low on most roads. This isn't such a bad thing, because the speed limits still serve their true purpose in this case, which is to prevent people from driving at an unsafe speed. Blind adherence to the letter of the law isn't required, and in fact doing so is not a good choice as the law is not set optimally, it is overly cautious.

So one could make the same argument, that you should never exceed the speed  limit ever, and if you feel it is unreasonably low, write your local government and petition to have it raised, but in the meantime, you must adhere to it.

But the spirit of the law says "Don't drive at an unsafely high speed". That's why speed limits exist (at least in theory, you can insert a snide comment about them being moneymakers for the cops if you'd like, and in many cases I wouldn't disagree). In reality, as long as you adhere to that, you are doing the right thing.

So I feel the same principle should apply here. The reason we have rules is to ensure that not just anyone can vote; there are standards that must be met, such as registering, and then casting a vote in the proper district. In real life, as long as a voter is registered, and goes to the proper precinct, their vote gets counted. You don't usually have to give your address in order to vote, and if you do, (I've never had to, but maybe some places, you do have to) the elections worker would specifically ask you for your address. You wouldn't be required to know in advance that the law requires you to have to give it, and then if you fail to state it, without being prompted to do so directly, your vote is invalid, even if you are a registered voter and in the proper precinct. That would be, I feel, the closest approximation in the real world of what we are dealing with here. Not to mention that we do have the addresses of the voters on file, it's just a matter of us wanting them to state it directly to make life a little easier for the vote counters. Understandable, and certainly if everyone started disregarding the rule completely it could get a bit problematic, but I don't feel that an undue burden is being placed on anyone from checking the voter rolls. It takes, what, 30 seconds, max?

So we've created a system that is a bit more restrictive than voting in the "real" world, and unnecessarily so. I feel that common sense should override this technicality.

[KEmperor]

Um.....a vote for StatesRights.....that's a first.

[King]

Since StatesRights isn't eligible it to run for 2 senate seats, it forwards to WMS

[The Duke]

The rules says his signature must include his hoemstate.  This may be a disagreeable rule to some, but it is a rule nonetheless.  A voter who does properly display their registered state should not be allowed to vote, and we can't make those rules any more explicit than they are.

[Gabu]

I agree with those who say that that rule should be made more prominent, but I'm also going to have to agree with those who say that it should be enforced.  While it's true that there may be room for improvement for that rule, simply disregarding a rule in a subjective manner is not the proper procedure for changing it.  I think we should just take what adverse effects it may have on us and live with them and try to get the rule changed for next time.

Of course, I can't force anyone to stop challenging it if they so choose, but that's just my take on it.

[qwerty]

What a bunch of losers. Go get real lives.