MA: Teaching Reform Act (Statute)

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

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Sponsor: A-Bob

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Seems pretty straight forward.

[Mopsus]

My primary concern with this bill is, teacher's salary is not related to the improvement of the student's test scores. Surely, if the average test score of a class increases from a C at the beginning of the semester to a B at the end of the semester, the salary of the teacher of said class should increase accordingly.

[California8429]

My primary concern with this bill is, teacher's salary is not related to the improvement of the student's test scores. Surely, if the average test score of a class increases from a C at the beginning of the semester to a B at the end of the semester, the salary of the teacher of said class should increase accordingly.

Write an amendment and throw it in there

[afleitch]

My primary concern with this bill is, teacher's salary is not related to the improvement of the student's test scores. Surely, if the average test score of a class increases from a C at the beginning of the semester to a B at the end of the semester, the salary of the teacher of said class should increase accordingly.

Re-weighting a salary after each semester would be administratively difficult and doesn't allow teachers to plan their household income for the year ahead. An annual review would be satisfactory.

[California8429]

My primary concern with this bill is, teacher's salary is not related to the improvement of the student's test scores. Surely, if the average test score of a class increases from a C at the beginning of the semester to a B at the end of the semester, the salary of the teacher of said class should increase accordingly.

Re-weighting a salary after each semester would be administratively difficult and doesn't allow teachers to plan their household income for the year ahead. An annual review would be satisfactory.

I was reading it as the score change over the year (beginning of the year, to end of semester A, to end of semester B) would weight the salary) but change the salary on a year to year basis

[Mopsus]

My primary concern with this bill is, teacher's salary is not related to the improvement of the student's test scores. Surely, if the average test score of a class increases from a C at the beginning of the semester to a B at the end of the semester, the salary of the teacher of said class should increase accordingly.

Re-weighting a salary after each semester would be administratively difficult and doesn't allow teachers to plan their household income for the year ahead. An annual review would be satisfactory.

I was reading it as the score change over the year (beginning of the year, to end of semester A, to end of semester B) would weight the salary) but change the salary on a year to year basis

The teacher's salary for the next year would be determined at the end of the current year by the improvement of his students' test scores over the course of the beginning of the first semester to the end of the first semester, and from the beginning of the second semester to the end of the second semester. So, for how much of the teacher's salary should the improvement of his student's test scores count?

[tmthforu94]

I still remain opposed to putting such a high percentage towards tests scores. It put's teacher's in rural and inner-city areas at a disadvantage and is certainly discouraging.

[Mopsus]

I still remain opposed to putting such a high percentage towards tests scores. It put's teacher's in rural and inner-city areas at a disadvantage and is certainly discouraging.

While I share your concerns about judging teachers by their students' test performances, I'm curious to hear your solution.

[tmthforu94]

I still remain opposed to putting such a high percentage towards tests scores. It put's teacher's in rural and inner-city areas at a disadvantage and is certainly discouraging.

While I share your concerns about judging teachers by their students' test performances, I'm curious to hear your solution.

I personally wouldn't support including it, but I at least want a reduction from the current number as a compromise. We had a number a while back that both sides were happy with, but I can't remember right off the top of my head. I'll try and look back later.

I'm just saying, I think it's unfair when you're using the same system for teacher's pay in Avon, Indiana that you are in, say, Sullivan, Indiana.

[California8429]

I still remain opposed to putting such a high percentage towards tests scores. It put's teacher's in rural and inner-city areas at a disadvantage and is certainly discouraging.

While I share your concerns about judging teachers by their students' test performances, I'm curious to hear your solution.

I personally wouldn't support including it, but I at least want a reduction from the current number as a compromise. We had a number a while back that both sides were happy with, but I can't remember right off the top of my head. I'll try and look back later.

I'm just saying, I think it's unfair when you're using the same system for teacher's pay in Avon, Indiana that you are in, say, Sullivan, Indiana.

It could be a wide range of scores, AP, SAT, ACT as well as class vs class in schools, statewide testing, etc

[tmthforu94]

I still remain opposed to putting such a high percentage towards tests scores. It put's teacher's in rural and inner-city areas at a disadvantage and is certainly discouraging.

While I share your concerns about judging teachers by their students' test performances, I'm curious to hear your solution.

I personally wouldn't support including it, but I at least want a reduction from the current number as a compromise. We had a number a while back that both sides were happy with, but I can't remember right off the top of my head. I'll try and look back later.

I'm just saying, I think it's unfair when you're using the same system for teacher's pay in Avon, Indiana that you are in, say, Sullivan, Indiana.

It could be a wide range of scores, AP, SAT, ACT as well as class vs class in schools, statewide testing, etc

How can you base it off of SAT and ACT scores considering many students don't take them? And many teachers aren't certified to teach AP courses. In my school, for example, we have only 4 AP classes.

[California8429]

I still remain opposed to putting such a high percentage towards tests scores. It put's teacher's in rural and inner-city areas at a disadvantage and is certainly discouraging.

While I share your concerns about judging teachers by their students' test performances, I'm curious to hear your solution.

I personally wouldn't support including it, but I at least want a reduction from the current number as a compromise. We had a number a while back that both sides were happy with, but I can't remember right off the top of my head. I'll try and look back later.

I'm just saying, I think it's unfair when you're using the same system for teacher's pay in Avon, Indiana that you are in, say, Sullivan, Indiana.

It could be a wide range of scores, AP, SAT, ACT as well as class vs class in schools, statewide testing, etc

How can you base it off of SAT and ACT scores considering many students don't take them? And many teachers aren't certified to teach AP courses. In my school, for example, we have only 4 AP classes.

It's kinda obvious I'm not talking about 2nd graders for that part But I am all for increasing funding for more honors and AP courses as well as giving kids the option to take specific classes at a nearby school if it is not offered at their own.

[Mopsus]

With all the controversy surrounding standardized testing and determining teacher's salary by the performance of their students on standardized tests, I wonder if it would not be wise to place less emphasis on tests and more emphasis on performance in regular classroom lessons. Your thoughts?

[California8429]

With all the controversy surrounding standardized testing and determining teacher's salary by the performance of their students on standardized tests, I wonder if it would not be wise to place less emphasis on tests and more emphasis on performance in regular classroom lessons. Your thoughts?

The problem with salary on merit for teachers is 1) their students can just be a bad bunch, 2) it discourages teaching in urban districts 3) their students have the ability to screw them over 4) it's all about student motivation (which if a teacher can get them motivated, is the greatest asset to their learning).

However by also letting bad teachers retain tenure, that screws the students. If anyone can come up with some idea where we can get rid of bad teachers, reward hard working teachers that motivate their students and successfully teach them to that their scores increase, please PLEASE come forward.

No idea is bad at this point. Just throw them out.

[afleitch]

There should be a clause to ensure that teachers who teach children with special educational needs or learning disabilties are are excluded from this structure. Ideally, if pay is performance based it should be linked to how each individual school measures pupil performance.

[Mopsus]

With all the controversy surrounding standardized testing and determining teacher's salary by the performance of their students on standardized tests, I wonder if it would not be wise to place less emphasis on tests and more emphasis on performance in regular classroom lessons. Your thoughts?

The problem with salary on merit for teachers is 1) their students can just be a bad bunch, 2) it discourages teaching in urban districts 3) their students have the ability to screw them over 4) it's all about student motivation (which if a teacher can get them motivated, is the greatest asset to their learning).

Which is why teacher's salary is not determined exclusively by student performance. However, if student performance is to influence teacher's salary at all, I would prefer it if the increase in student's grades had the same influence as the student's grades themselves.

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I'm aware of the problems granting full tenure to primary school teachers causes. Perhaps we should make it more difficult to attain tenure? Perhaps require teachers to earn it, instead of granting it automatically? Or extending the amount of time teachers are required to teach before they're awarded it?

[California8429]

Both of those are wonderful ideas. I'm with afleitch 100% with that.

And MO's idea of making it harder to gain tenure in the first place is smart as well.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

There should be a clause to ensure that teachers who teach children with special educational needs or learning disabilties are are excluded from this structure. Ideally, if pay is performance based it should be linked to how each individual school measures pupil performance.

Do you have an amendment for that?

[afleitch]

There should be a clause to ensure that teachers who teach children with special educational needs or learning disabilties are are excluded from this structure. Ideally, if pay is performance based it should be linked to how each individual school measures pupil performance.

Do you have an amendment for that?

Amendment to Section 1(b) (or even a seperate section)

Section 1 is re-numbered Section 1(a)

Insert:

Section 1(b)

"Teachers who teach specialised classes for students with recognised Special Educational needs and Learning Disabilities are not subject to the pay structure in Section 1(a) and the following structure is deemed to apply;

30% Education acquired by degree, in any area. The greater amount of degrees and the more advanced degree will result in a higher salary.
35% Years spent teaching in public, private, charter schools, or universities. The longer a teacher has spent teaching, the greater their salary.
30% Years spent teaching, volunteering and undertaking additional study in relation to Special Educational Needs and/or working with children with Learning Disabilities.
5% Former occupation related to teaching. For teachers who have had occupations related to their current teaching."

----

Amendment to Section 3

Insert:

"With the agreement of the Educational Department, individual schools or school districts may be permitted to vary the content of the annual test to take into account specific educational environments or circumstances on an annual basis."

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Is that one amendment or two?

[California8429]

I believe two and both I support

[ZuWo]

As has been stated, there are many different factors that have an influence on students' performance in tests and teachers can't be made responsible for mediocre or bad test results in every single case. Therefore, I tend believe we should skip the "salary on merit" part of Section 1 altogether. Deleting this clause would relieve teachers from a great deal of pressure.

Edit: Ok, now that I have seen afleitch's amendment to Section 3 I can agree with the salary on merit idea. I both support his amendment to Section 1, which deals with teachers of specialised classes, and the amendment to Section 3, which says that differing educational environments can be taken into account when it comes to the tests.

[afleitch]

Is that one amendment or two?

Two.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Voting is now open on the following amendents.  Members will vote AYE, NAY, or ABSTAIN.  This will be a 48 hour vote.

Amendment 1:

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Amendment 2:

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