SENATE BILL: Atlasian Green Jobs Act (Law'd)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor: fuzzybigfoot

[Napoleon]

I'm likely to support this.

I'd like to know what percentage of our energy is currently from renewable resources and the impact thus bill would have on the numbers.

[Fuzzybigfoot]

I know this is a pretty basic bill, but it does take an important and somewhat experamental step forward to a future of clean energy.  Glaciers are litterally melting as we speak.  The midwest is as cooked as a Chicago deep dish pizza, and the polar ice caps are shrinking at an alarmingly fast rate.  

Most ecologists from all over the world will tell you that global warming is very, very real, and that we are contributing to it.  We should take action now.




BTW this is my first bill, so constructive critisism would be good.  

[Fuzzybigfoot]

I'm likely to support this.

I'd like to know what percentage of our energy is currently from renewable resources and the impact thus bill would have on the numbers.

I read that only about 11% of our energy comes from renewable resources.  

From what I've pieced together, this bill would create enough wind turbines and solar plants to power an additional 8 million homes at least.

I might actually remove the hydro power funds, since I forgot that dams have been known to hurt fish populations.

[Napoleon]

I will offer an amendment to give all $80 billion to solar power plants.

[Ban my account ffs!]

I will offer an amendment to give all $80 billion to solar power plants.

I think it would be better if you split it differently... say $50 billion for solar, $20 billion for hydro (including wave and tidal), and $10 for "other" including wind and geothermal.

[Napoleon]

I will offer an amendment to give all $80 billion to solar power plants.

I think it would be better if you split it differently... say $50 billion for solar, $20 billion for hydro (including wave and tidal), and $10 for "other" including wind and geothermal.

I was offering that due to concerns about fish and birds for hydro and wind.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I authored a bill much like this a year ago. It calls for 20% of our energy to be from renewable resources by 2020 or something like that. I'm not sure throwing $80 billion  for more renewable energy would be that efficient with those regulations already in place.

[Fuzzybigfoot]

I authored a bill much like this a year ago. It calls for 20% of our energy to be from renewable resources by 2020 or something like that. I'm not sure throwing $80 billion  for more renewable energy would be that efficient with those regulations already in place.

I don't think it could hurt, it does take us closer to a 20% mark. 

[tmthforu94]

I authored a bill much like this a year ago. It calls for 20% of our energy to be from renewable resources by 2020 or something like that. I'm not sure throwing $80 billion  for more renewable energy would be that efficient with those regulations already in place.

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php#6

I don't think it could hurt, it does take us closer to a 20% mark. 

Fiscal Responsibility.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I authored a bill much like this a year ago. It calls for 20% of our energy to be from renewable resources by 2020 or something like that. I'm not sure throwing $80 billion  for more renewable energy would be that efficient with those regulations already in place.

I don't think it could hurt, it does take us closer to a 20% mark. 

$$$$$ limits maybe, if we're looking to keep spending in check. As it stands, we don't know how much we are currently spending. A lot of it is instructions to businesses to cut their emissions as opposed to federal spending.

[Bacon King]

Here's a friendly reminder to everyone on Atlasia's existing relevant statutes!

Note that all Federal government electricity usage is required to be from renewable sources, so in Atlasia there's already a significant stable demand in the alternative energy market which would allow economies of scale to more easily develop compared to the United States. Atlasia also has a Federal carbon tax, which embeds the cost of pollution into non-clean energy sources. There's also a bunch of other incentives on the books in support of clean energy development. Given these laws, I believe it would be safe to assume that Atlasia's renewable energy producers are in a much stronger position relative to those in the real-world United States.

Also, note that there was $100 billion funded for alternative energy in Atlasia's version of the Stimulus, though it didn't specify the specific types of energy it would go towards.

[Fuzzybigfoot]

Here's a friendly reminder to everyone on Atlasia's existing relevant statutes!

Note that all Federal government electricity usage is required to be from renewable sources, so in Atlasia there's already a significant stable demand in the alternative energy market which would allow economies of scale to more easily develop compared to the United States. Atlasia also has a Federal carbon tax, which embeds the cost of pollution into non-clean energy sources. There's also a bunch of other incentives on the books in support of clean energy development. Given these laws, I believe it would be safe to assume that Atlasia's renewable energy producers are in a much stronger position relative to those in the real-world United States.

Also, note that there was $100 billion funded for alternative energy in Atlasia's version of the Stimulus, though it didn't specify the specific types of energy it would go towards.

Awwwwwww. 

[Napoleon]

Here's a friendly reminder to everyone on Atlasia's existing relevant statutes!

Note that all Federal government electricity usage is required to be from renewable sources, so in Atlasia there's already a significant stable demand in the alternative energy market which would allow economies of scale to more easily develop compared to the United States. Atlasia also has a Federal carbon tax, which embeds the cost of pollution into non-clean energy sources. There's also a bunch of other incentives on the books in support of clean energy development. Given these laws, I believe it would be safe to assume that Atlasia's renewable energy producers are in a much stronger position relative to those in the real-world United States.

Also, note that there was $100 billion funded for alternative energy in Atlasia's version of the Stimulus, though it didn't specify the specific types of energy it would go towards.

Awwwwwww. 

I'm still willing to help make this a useful bill if you'd like to stick with it.

[Bacon King]

Indeed, I'm not saying you should abandon the bill at all, just filling the Senate in on the current situation so that you can build up from existing statute should you so chose

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I'm not sure what kind of amending we can do to this bill in it's present state. I'm all for green jobs, and I think that industry is the future of our economy, but I'm wary of pumping another $80 billion into the industry given our current budgetary issues and state of our economy. If the benefits are worth it, I'd be totally for it, but given all the work we've already done, I think we're already well on our way to energy independence. Just IMO. 

[Napoleon]

I'm not sure what kind of amending we can do to this bill in it's present state. I'm all for green jobs, and I think that industry is the future of our economy, but I'm wary of pumping another $80 billion into the industry given our current budgetary issues and state of our economy. If the benefits are worth it, I'd be totally for it, but given all the work we've already done, I think we're already well on our way to energy independence. Just IMO. 

While energy independence is a good head start, we really ought to be on a path to energy sustainability. To do so, we need to develop industry and infrastructure for renewable energy to begin phasing out fossil fuels for good. I wouldn't waste an opportunity to build a better future just because progress has already been made.

[Ban my account ffs!]

I'm not sure what kind of amending we can do to this bill in it's present state. I'm all for green jobs, and I think that industry is the future of our economy, but I'm wary of pumping another $80 billion into the industry given our current budgetary issues and state of our economy. If the benefits are worth it, I'd be totally for it, but given all the work we've already done, I think we're already well on our way to energy independence. Just IMO. 

While energy independence is a good head start, we really ought to be on a path to energy sustainability. To do so, we need to develop industry and infrastructure for renewable energy to begin phasing out fossil fuels for good. I wouldn't waste an opportunity to build a better future just because progress has already been made.

Also, the "fiscal responsibility" argument is moot.  The least we can do after we've run up so much debt that our grandkids will have to pay off, is put some of that into long term infrastructure investments that will save us a lot of money in the future.

By making our energy sector sustainable and continually updating the infrastructure, we will save Atlasia a lot of money in the future as fossil fuels become scarcer and price shocks become an everyday event.

We aren't going to power our entire economy on wind and solar power... but if we make investments into those technologies while exploiting domestic sources of energy, we will greatly improve our position in the world.  Our entire economy and existence can be reduced to energy... the vast majority of which is provided by the sun with a minor bit coming from geothermal sources.  Expensive, outdated energy will ruin our economy and cause stagnation and eventually collapse.  While making energy slightly more expensive now is not ideal, it will save us money overall and greatly help in improving our economy.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

The types of energy that make sense are going to be different from one place to the next, and we don't really know which is going to be most efficient. If we invest ahuge sum in one at the expense of another, we might be setting something up that isn't self-sustainable. Instead we could consider giving low-interest loans to renewable energy developers, and setting up a 'smart grid' infrastructure that can integrate different sources of energy.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I'd tend to support shua's proposal over spending a lump sum on a specific technology. After all, some of these technologies may be DOA. Further, an amendment like that would mesh much better with the incentive laden bill I passed last year.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I think approach should not necessarily just be about the spending... but about the processes.

I would like to see more focus on 'transitioning' from dirty-industry jobs to green ones. Rather than "thump" here's some money.

Government investment is very much needed in this effort - but we do need to consider HOW we execute the effort before we figure out how much it'll cost.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Both the President and Senator shua have good points here. I think that we should focus considerably energies on organizing processes to ensure we accomplish real results for those dollars that are spent. That leaves a queation for how these will be organized. shua suggested loans to to developers, and the President mentioned in general a focus on replacing old school industry with green industry jobs.

I would point out that there is a risk of increased unemployment as a result of this switch from old to green as far as industrial applications goes. When you force a shift in production, you inevitably are forcing the use of the latest generation machinery, to replace what likely is a previous generation setup. That shift often brings with it increased efficiency and thus a need for less workers as well. It's not a concern that should make us avoid or not do something entirely because of it, but it should be something that is considered as we push forward with this.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Both the President and Senator shua have good points here. I think that we should focus considerably energies on organizing processes to ensure we accomplish real results for those dollars that are spent. That leaves a queation for how these will be organized. shua suggested loans to to developers, and the President mentioned in general a focus on replacing old school industry with green industry jobs.

I would point out that there is a risk of increased unemployment as a result of this switch from old to green as far as industrial applications goes. When you force a shift in production, you inevitably are forcing the use of the latest generation machinery, to replace what likely is a previous generation setup. That shift often brings with it increased efficiency and thus a need for less workers as well. It's not a concern that should make us avoid or not do something entirely because of it, but it should be something that is considered as we push forward with this.

It could also be argued that investing in these newer technologies could increase jobs in the short term. Installing new solar panels, removing other older technologies, and the like will inevitability create a demand for workers, and moving industries from oil powered utilities to electric and/or hybrid type utilities will see the creation of new factories producing these batteries/panels/wind turbines.

I think there is a new market to be had in this type of research, but I, like shua, am wary about setting aside X number of dollars on a specific technology that may or may not be worth that dollar amount. I think loans or creating a fund available for private and public businesses to use to invest in green technology should be the way to go so we can experiment with what works and what doesn't. Just look at ethanol. In fact, I may propose an amendment creating a Green Energy Fund of sorts that allows businesses to borrow money at a low rate to invest sooner rather than later.

[Fuzzybigfoot]

Both the President and Senator shua have good points here. I think that we should focus considerably energies on organizing processes to ensure we accomplish real results for those dollars that are spent. That leaves a queation for how these will be organized. shua suggested loans to to developers, and the President mentioned in general a focus on replacing old school industry with green industry jobs.

I would point out that there is a risk of increased unemployment as a result of this switch from old to green as far as industrial applications goes. When you force a shift in production, you inevitably are forcing the use of the latest generation machinery, to replace what likely is a previous generation setup. That shift often brings with it increased efficiency and thus a need for less workers as well. It's not a concern that should make us avoid or not do something entirely because of it, but it should be something that is considered as we push forward with this.

This bill would simply offer competition to the more established industries.  I really don't see any way the bill could hurt employment in the short run, the construction of these green energy facilities would create tens of thousands of new jobs on the spot.  And It's not like the coal and oil industries will disapear overnight or anything becuase of this. 

[Fuzzybigfoot]

As for the constuction, we could simply spread it out a number of years. It would give us pleanty of room to adjust if need be.  I was thinking five to seven years maybe?