King County finds 561 new ballots - Gregorie wins Washington Recount
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  King County finds 561 new ballots - Gregorie wins Washington Recount
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Author Topic: King County finds 561 new ballots - Gregorie wins Washington Recount  (Read 11327 times)
The Vorlon
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« on: December 14, 2004, 02:11:27 PM »

Error discovery could give Gregoire election

By David Postman
Times chief political Reporter

THOMAS JAMES HURST / THE SEATTLE TIMES
Dino Rossi supporters and recount/Gregoire supporters gather on the steps of the state Supreme Court in Olympia yesterday before the court heard arguments on the Democrats' lawsuit regarding the recount.
 
King County election officials yesterday admitted a major error in tallying votes in the governor's race that could reverse the results and make Christine Gregoire the winner in the hand recount now under way.

The discovery that 561 votes were improperly disqualified super-heated backers of Republican Dino Rossi, who for weeks have worried that King County, a Democratic stronghold, would find a way to give Gregoire the edge.

Republicans are now "absolutely convinced that King County is trying to steal this election," said Republican Party Chairman Chris Vance.

"There are Republicans urging us to organize mass protests, to take to the streets," Vance said. "At some point people's patience just runs out."

The King County news also infused a Supreme Court hearing on Democrats' attempt to force counties to reconsider thousands of rejected ballots statewide. All sides used King County's problems to bolster their arguments.

For Democrats, the discovery proved their argument that not all valid votes cast in the election have been counted.

For Republicans, it showed that counties can correct errors on their own — and don't need a court order to tell them how.

The King County error came to light Sunday when Larry Phillips, chairman of the Metropolitan King County Council, was looking over a list of voters from his neighborhood whose ballots had been disqualified.

Phillips spotted his own name on the list, prompting an investigation by King County elections workers that turned up 561 improperly disqualified ballots.

King County Elections Director Dean Logan said that when workers were verifying signatures on absentee ballots, they erroneously disqualified voters whose signatures hadn't been entered into a computer system.

Instead, Logan said, they should have double-checked with signatures on voters' registration cards on file with the county.

"We take full responsibility," Logan said. "An error has been made that has prevented valid ballots from being counted. We need to correct the error and count those votes."

Logan said he will ask the three-member King County Canvassing Board tomorrow to approve the counting of all wrongly disqualified ballots that pass a signature comparison. If some signatures don't match, those voters will be notified of the mismatch and given a chance to establish their identity.

Elsewhere in the state, Rossi got some good news yesterday when eight more counties reported results of the hand recount. As of last night, with the recount completed in 24 counties, Rossi had gained 46 votes — bringing his total lead to 88.

King County has already been a problem for Rossi, though.

The county is the state's largest and one of the most Democratic. Gregoire holds a nearly 60-40 advantage over Rossi there.

Last month, in the final days of the initial vote tally, Republicans were shocked to learn that King County was going to count thousands more ballots than it had originally forecast.

Rossi led by 261 votes after the first count. Then, during the machine recount, Rossi's lead withered to just 42 votes — largely because King County tallied nearly 1,000 ballots that weren't included in the initial count.

"It's either gross incompetence or vote fraud," Vance said. "I guess we should just keep expecting King County to find votes until they find enough."

Gregoire and the Democrats, meanwhile, welcomed the news that more votes would be counted in King County.

"We are hopeful, but we don't know how these ballots are going to break down," state Democratic Party spokeswoman Kirstin Brost said.

Election workers are investigating whether any other category of ballots was mishandled, but no problems have been found, Logan said.

Other people whose votes were disqualified because of signature problems during the initial vote count won't be reconsidered unless the state Supreme Court orders a review, Logan said.

The court could issue a decision as early as today after meeting in an unusual emergency session yesterday to hear arguments in a case filed by Democrats.

At the heart of the Democrats' argument is that all counties need to treat the recount the same, and that the standard used should be to reconsider all previously rejected ballots.

Attorneys for county election officials, Secretary of State Sam Reed, the Republican Party and Rossi argue that what Democrats want is a recanvass — going far beyond the scope of a recount.

Democratic Party attorney David Burman told the court that King County's errors show the need to require all counties to go through all ballots to ensure voters' right to equal protection under the constitution.

"Some voters would have their errors corrected, but voters with exactly the same errors in a different county would be denied the right to have that correction, and hence would be denied the right to vote," Burman told the justices.

Burman was grilled by Chief Justice Gerry Alexander. If Democrats want counties to reconsider all their rejected ballots, Alexander asked, why not reconsider all ballots found to be valid in the first two tallies?

"Is there something arguably unfair about that?" Alexander asked.

Burman said he didn't have evidence of votes improperly counted and that erring on the side of counting a vote does not pose the same constitutional problems as invalidating a ballot.

Alexander also seemed reluctant to make any sweeping assumptions about voting problems.

"How can we say this is a systemic problem ... without some fact-finding?" he said.

The attorney representing Reed's office told the court that the Legislature knew what it was doing in writing a law for a recount, not a recanvass, in case of a close election.

"The place to change the recount statute is the Legislature, not this court," Thomas Ahearn said. "And the time to change the recount statute is before the election, not in the middle of the ongoing recount.

"Refusing to rewrite our state's recount statute is not an equal-protection violation."

The attorney for the Republicans said Democrats were asking the court not just to rewrite the recount law, but to "reinvent Washington state's recount process."

"Your election law is not a blank coloring book to be filled at the desire of a candidate because they don't like the way a recount is going," Mark Braden said.

Attorneys for all sides said it is difficult to predict what the court will do based on questions from judges during oral arguments.

But several justices seemed reluctant to inject too much judicial power in the midst of a recount. The years since the disputed 2000 presidential election have brought more judicial scrutiny to elections; some judges appear concerned about what one legal commentator has called the increasing legalization of politics through litigation and court action in elections.

That seemed clear from an exchange between Burman and Justice Bobbe Bridge. Bridge asked him about the difference between recounting and recanvassing, and pointed out the problem if either side could continually ask for reconsideration of rejected ballots.

"How are we ever going to get finality in an election if that is the case?" Bridge asked.

Burman: "We are in favor of finality. But we are in favor of finality after it's done fully and fairly, accurately and civilly, and that is part of the manual-recount process."

Bridge: "Are voters supposed to take a lawyer now when they go to vote just to make sure everything" is done correctly?

Burman: "If they care enough, if they are worried enough about the errors, perhaps they should."

David Postman: 360-943-9882 or dpostman@seattletimes.com

Staff writers Ralph Thomas and Keith Ervin contributed to his report.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2004, 02:29:16 PM »

I believe now is the time to roll eyes?
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Nym90
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« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2004, 02:32:15 PM »

I know a lot of folks will start screaming about this.

Please, before it even starts, let's settle down, take a deep breath, and figure out if these votes are valid or not before we start hurling around baseless accusations. I pray that this plea will not fall on deaf ears.
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A18
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« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2004, 02:47:53 PM »

They could be valid votes.

This is an example of a truly close election. Unlike Ohio, where any recount effort is a total joke.
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Will F.D. People
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« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2004, 03:49:46 PM »
« Edited: December 14, 2004, 04:06:47 PM by Will F.D. People »

The Washington Supreme Court has ruled against the Democrats and in favor of the Secretary of State/ King County/ Rossi:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002118956_webballotlawsuit14.html

This was on the question of whether counties should be required to re-examine their discarded ballots. Washington law gives counties the discretion to re-examine their discarded ballots if they find a discrepancy. King County found such a discrepancy with their 561 absentees where (they claim) they used an incomplete database to initially reject them.

King County joined with the Secretary of State and the Rossi campaign to oppose the Democrats' request to force counties to re-canvas the discarded ballots.

The oral arguments were carried on C-SPAN. I was deeply heartened by the on-target questions that the Washington Supremes were asking. For instance, the Chief Justice was concerned that there was no fact-finding included with the Democrat's suit; they could not point to situations where there were problems not being addressed. I am even more heartened that the Supremes seem to have bought into the idea that different rejection rates in different counties does not imply that different standards are being used in different counties for accepting ballots.
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Alcon
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« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2004, 03:51:17 PM »

The Washington Supreme Court has ruled against the Democrats and in favor of the Secretary of State/ King County/ Rossi:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002118956_webballotlawsuit14.html

"The decision does not affect the 561 uncounted ballots in King County that were discovered Sunday to have been wrongly rejected because of mistakes by election workers. Those ballots go to a canvassing board Wednesday for verification and could tip the delicate balance of the election toward Gregoire, who claimed 58 percent of the vote in the Democratic stronghold that includes Seattle."

I'm not even sure what this ruling is on now - God, I am so confused!
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Will F.D. People
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« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2004, 04:22:48 PM »


"The decision does not affect the 561 uncounted ballots in King County that were discovered Sunday to have been wrongly rejected because of mistakes by election workers. Those ballots go to a canvassing board Wednesday for verification and could tip the delicate balance of the election toward Gregoire, who claimed 58 percent of the vote in the Democratic stronghold that includes Seattle."

I'm not even sure what this ruling is on now - God, I am so confused!

The Democrats were asking the Supreme Court to order the counties to "re-canvas" as well as recount, which meant that the ballots that came before the canvas boards and were rejected would have to be reconsidered. I believe these include absentee ballots and provisionals. The Democrats were asking that the Supremes impose a uniform standard for accepting provisionals/absentees.

The Secretary of State / King County / Rossi side argued that the statute provided for a recount, not a re-canvas. They also argued that a uniform standard for accepting ballots already exisited: the voter must be registered, and the signature on their ballot must match the signature on file. The lawyer for the SOS argued that a uniform standard did not mean that it would be applied in exactly the same way by different people, and gave several examples of what we would consider uniform standards. I believe one was a standard of evidence or a standard of proof but I could be wrong. Anyway he cited cases of where a clear standard still had room for interpretation.

One question the lawyer for the Democrats was asked was what could be done about ballots that were perhaps included incorrectly during the canvas. The answer is that there was nothing that could be done with them because they were now in the mix and you could not trace them back to their original voter. Under questioning the Democrats' lawyer also said that perhaps voters should take lawyers with them to the poll to ensure that their votes are counted.

Counties have the discretion to recanvas if they find a problem, and this is what is going on in King County with the 561 ballots. The claim is that they were rejected because they were compared against an incomplete database. One thing that interested the Supremes was that there was no fact-finding along with the suit. The Democrats could not point to a situation where there was a canvasing problem and the county refused to recanvas.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2004, 04:33:25 PM »

When's this mess ending?
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Sam Spade
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« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2004, 06:04:41 PM »


When the Democrats can find enough votes to win.
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tinman64
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« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2004, 06:23:39 PM »

This has to be the biggest mess in a governor's race since 1982, when Thompson squeaked by Stevenson III by a few thousand votes.

Before that, the biggest mess was probably the 1962 race in Minnesota.  The recount lasted an incredible 139 days.  The incumbant, Elmer Andersen, took office - but when the recount was certified, DFL candidate Karl Rolvaag won by just 91 votes out of 1.3 millon.  He took office after the recount.
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« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2004, 06:58:30 PM »


I've said this a million times:

The Republicans have done the same thing. It's not a big deal.

It's happened in many counties, but King County is the big newsmaker because it matters because it has 30% of the state's population.
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A18
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« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2004, 07:05:20 PM »

This has to be the biggest mess in a governor's race since 1982, when Thompson squeaked by Stevenson III by a few thousand votes.

Before that, the biggest mess was probably the 1962 race in Minnesota.  The recount lasted an incredible 139 days.  The incumbant, Elmer Andersen, took office - but when the recount was certified, DFL candidate Karl Rolvaag won by just 91 votes out of 1.3 millon.  He took office after the recount.

Terrible precedent, and legally questionable. Well, more like outright illegal. Once an official is sworn into office, he's in.
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agcatter
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« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2004, 07:33:13 PM »

Terrible news for Cantwell.   Go get her Rossi.
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A18
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« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2004, 07:47:06 PM »

We could get 60 Senate seats in 2006.
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I spent the winter writing songs about getting better
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« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2004, 07:56:22 PM »

the fallacy here is that Rossi is a really good candidate that came close because of this, not because Gregoire ran a terrible campaign, and that Washington is just as willing to elect a Republican as Senator than governor, which as many states have proven is not true. If William Weld and Tony Knowles couldn't win, a guy who won by 42 votes if you consider him the winner can't.
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A18
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« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2004, 08:33:43 PM »

I don't know if he'd win or not, but North Dakota, Florida, Washington, New York, and Nebraska get us there.
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Alcon
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« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2004, 08:39:04 PM »

I don't know if he'd win or not, but North Dakota, Florida, Washington, New York, and Nebraska get us there.

Hmm?
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A18
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« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2004, 08:39:44 PM »

I don't know if he'd win or not, but North Dakota, Florida, Washington, New York, and Nebraska get us there.

Hmm?

?
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Alcon
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« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2004, 08:41:09 PM »

I don't know if he'd win or not, but North Dakota, Florida, Washington, New York, and Nebraska get us there.

Hmm?

?

I don't understand what your original statement about North Dakota, Florida, Washington, New York, and Nebraska means.
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agcatter
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« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2004, 08:57:30 PM »

Point is, lightweight Cantwell now has a potential challenger who will be well known throughout the state.  There was no potential challenger before this.

Dems now have to really work to defend a state that was a lay down victory before now.  Most excellent.

Reminds me of SD.  The defeat of Thune by 500 votes in 2002 turned out to be bad news for Dems and Daschle in 2004.  Rossi needs to do what Thune did after his razor thin defeat.  Be classy in defeat and not wine.  Methodically start working towards the next election.

I'd rather Dunn go after the seat, but she wasn't going to do it.  This is as good as Republicans were going to get.
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CARLHAYDEN
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« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2004, 09:20:16 PM »


Unfortunately, Logan is going to 'run' as many pseudovotes through his 'system' as necessary to make sure Gregoire is 'elected.'

In the old Cook County, Illinois jargon, Logan believes that is doesn't matter how the votes are cast as long as he gets to count them.
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King
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« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2004, 10:03:16 PM »

Wait, who won again? Tongue
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bgwah
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« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2004, 10:29:20 PM »

If Gregoire wins, the Republicans will say she cheated no matter what. It is inevitable.

Hmm, Rossi has increased his lead, maybe he's cheating!??? No, I don't think so.
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MHS2002
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« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2004, 10:34:35 PM »

I don't know if he'd win or not, but North Dakota, Florida, Washington, New York, and Nebraska get us there.

Hmm?

?

I don't understand what your original statement about North Dakota, Florida, Washington, New York, and Nebraska means.

He's saying that GOP Senate wins in those states in 2006 will give the GOP 60 seats.
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zorkpolitics
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« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2004, 11:43:28 PM »


I am a big believer in incompetence over conspiracy when delaing with politicians.  King county has had its problems:
In the first offical count they 'discovered' they had an extra 5000 ballots they had not reproted to the SOS on election night.
During the first machine recount, they inspected ballots by hand and, after devining voter intent, enhanced 350 undervotes to become votes.
Now during the manual recount they have 'discovered' errors in the first count and will 'amend' the first count (and add to the manual recount) 573 ballots (which they call 561 in their press release).
Given this level of incompetence the election board at King county should be fired
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