2012 NDP leadership convention

[MaxQue]

Does someone understand the Topp lovefest?

All the leadership of the NDP club of my university supports him, for a reason which eludes me.

[lilTommy]

The Topp lovefest eludes me! So, Chemistry for all of us, i'd say ask them why they want Topp to be the leader?

All i can say is he speaks well, knows how to talk to social democrats but he still dosen't impress me and i find him the most adversarial of the bunch.

I watched the debate, it was so far one of the more fiesty ones but thats to be expected i think http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ndp-contenders-take-the-gloves-off-in-winnipeg-debate/article2350862/

Mulcair and Nash were "attacked" the most i think, Topp and Cullen were also gone after, Dewar somewhat and Ashton and Singh i don't think at all. Thats telling since there have been murmurs that Ashton will dropout.
What i found somewhat interesting was that Topp was targetting less Mulcair and more so Nash.

[Holmes]

I got a(nother) telephone poll last night, asking me who my choices are. I wish they would say who commissions these polls. Anyway, here's my list at the moment.

1. Mulcair
2. Nash
3. Ashton
4. Dewar
5. Cullen
6. Singh
7. Topp

Of course, anything after Nash is irrelevant.

[RogueBeaver]

The Topp lovefest eludes me! So, Chemistry for all of us, i'd say ask them why they want Topp to be the leader?

All i can say is he speaks well, knows how to talk to social democrats but he still dosen't impress me and i find him the most adversarial of the bunch.

I watched the debate, it was so far one of the more fiesty ones but thats to be expected i think http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ndp-contenders-take-the-gloves-off-in-winnipeg-debate/article2350862/

Mulcair and Nash were "attacked" the most i think, Topp and Cullen were also gone after, Dewar somewhat and Ashton and Singh i don't think at all. Thats telling since there have been murmurs that Ashton will dropout.
What i found somewhat interesting was that Topp was targetting less Mulcair and more so Nash.

Which probably means their internal polls are pegging a close race for second.

[lilTommy]

Another former premier.... This time Mulcair get Harcourts endorsement
http://www.thomasmulcair.ca/site/2012/02/27/former-bc-premier-mike-harcourt-endorses-thomas-mulcair/?lang=en

Romanow supports Topp... and Schreyer support Mulcair too, has Dewar or any other NDP premier endorsed?

[MaxQue]

For the moment, my planned ballot is exactly the same than Holmes.

[RogueBeaver]

What do you guys think?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/second-reading/silver-powers/what-mandate-is-mulcair-seeking/article2351179/

[MaxQue]

I think than Mulcair wants to transform NDP in a center-left party, not a centrist one. If he was centrist, he would have joined Liberals, offering him a much easier path to a seat in Quebec.

Moving to center-left is probably needed to gain power.

[RogueBeaver]

How widespread is this view among grassroots Dippers though? Certainly I've seen the view "it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentioned a lot more in the media. I do agree about Mulcair's ideological intentions though. When your opponents' fiscal policy is being set by Stephen Harper and Scott Brison respectively, there's plenty of room on the left.

[RogueBeaver]

Early voting has begun.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/as-early-voting-begins-ndp-hopefuls-shift-into-high-gear/article2350737/

Mulcair's right, but I'm sure the party's left are nonplussed...

http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/343754/nous-ne-vaincrons-pas-harper-avec-un-slogan

[lilTommy]

My ranking is almost the same as Holmes, we only differ on the lower rankings

Mulcair
Nash
Cullen (if Saganash was in the race he'd be my third)
Ashton
Dewar
Topp
Singh

The NDP is Centre-Left already, i think they stopped being "socialist" when the CCF became the NDP. Its about the messaging, the delivery and how we talk to people that i think hes trying to get out there. Policy sure, i think some of the leftier stuff he might water down... but remember policy is chosen by the membership so seeing as they couldn't even change democratic socialist to social democrat i don't see the parties policies changing too much. What i'm seeing is that people are realising that to be the government we have to run from the centre and govern from the left... reverse liberals, Mulcair is seen as the best to take on Harper and can be the best face to put out there (Has been in government is a big plus for me, even though it was a Liberal one, he left on principle which says a lot)

[minionofmidas]

Singh
Mulcair

There is no way Mulcair doesn't make the final two, so I don't need to think about how I'd rank them. Though I would (you know... just in case) if I were a Canadian and an NDP member.

[lilTommy]

... Mulcair wins over Chisholm
http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/politics/archives/2012/02/20120229-131610.html

(don't judge me on the sun link)

Really good read on IRV and who can win:
http://www.punditsguide.ca/2012/02/beginning-of-the-end-games-paths-to-win-in-the-ndp-leadership-race/

[Hatman 🍁]

I think I'm going to vote for Mulcair. I'm undecided about my other preferences. I guess I'll keep Paul in 2nd... or maybe Singh? or Ashton? hmmm....

Dewar's new haircut is rather dorky. I prefer him with more hair. His new look isn't very Prime Ministerial, which is a problem. Also, Peggy Nash's look I think is Prime Ministerial, for a woman.

These are tough choices, my friends.

[RogueBeaver]

Who do you guys think is in third?

[Peter the Lefty]

I think than Mulcair wants to transform NDP in a center-left party, not a centrist one. If he was centrist, he would have joined Liberals, offering him a much easier path to a seat in Quebec.

Moving to center-left is probably needed to gain power.

Yes, but not to the extent that Mulcair wants to take it, I hope.  The NDP should move closer to the center if it wants to gain power, but that doesn't mean they should elect a leader who:
A. Calls himself an "ardent supporter of Israel in ALL situations and circumstances
B. Supported bulk water exports as the Environment Minister in Quebec before he was opposed to them as an NDP leadership candidate.
C. Is getting money from Anthony Muck, director of the Barrick Gold Corporation, Gerry Schwartz, CEO of the Onex corporation
D. Refuses to talk about taxing the wealthy
E. Supports NAFTA

[MaxQue]

I don't think he really supports A, but it is a needed position to keep his seat, which has a lot of Jewish people.

[RogueBeaver]

Yep. If we recall, Dion's handpicked dud in Outremont from '07 got in very hot water for his Israeli writings.

[RogueBeaver]

Mulcair's running on a GE platform. If he wins the leadership none of those stances will hurt him- to the contrary, they'll be beneficial.

[MaxQue]

What else?

On B, well, he followed the policy decided by his leader as any minister is doing.
Demonising Canadian businesses wouldn't be useful in a general election. That's sad, but it isn't our job to regulate what Canadian businesses are doing abroad.
D will be helpful in the real election.
E. Well you know, most areas of Canada benefites of NAFTA and the real losers of it is US, since our economy is way less industrial. And repealing NAFTA would be a really bad idea. Plants wouldn't be back and prizes for customers would raise. The best thing would have be not signing it, but the disadvanges of leaving it outweights the advantages, at this point.

[Peter the Lefty]

Ok, fair enough about the Israel thing, and the bulk water.  But as I think it's been stated before, the Democrats and Obama are running on a tax the rich platform quite successfully in the US, a society in which any talk of tax increases is extremely taboo.  And his corporate funding is still questionable.  My main problem with Mulcair other than what I've mentioned is ideological.  I am perfectly willing to believe that he is ideologically left-liberal.  But the NDP is not and has never been a left-liberal party.  The NDP is a social democratic/democratic socialist party.  Social liberalism is not social democracy.  They do have a number of things in common, but they are not the same thing.  He ideologically would fit best in the Liberal Democrats were he in the UK (if you took out the fact that they're in a coalition with the Torries), though I guess Labour has enough neoliberal crooks and rightists in disguise that he'd probably fit in well there too, and he's preferable to many of them.  He has, talked about how the NDP has to "renew" itself and even talked about how all other main social democratic parties in the world have "renewed" (which is clearly code for Blairism/Schroderism/Third Way) The NDP cannot go in that direction, and therefore, were I an NDP member, my ballot as of now would be as follows:
1. Peggy Nash
2. Nathan Cullen
HUGE gap
3. Niki Ashton
4. Thomas Mulcair
5. Paul Dewar
6. Brian Topp
7. Martin Singh

[MaxQue]

Well, US has a problem of fiscal base. The State just doesn't tax enough money to fund itself.
Canada hasn't that problem. We had no deficit until the stimulus and we will return to equilibrum normally before next election, despite the unneeded tax cuts for big businesses by Harper.

Taxation for the sake of taxation, I'm not a fan of that. Especially with provinces like Ontario and Quebec struggling. Leave them space to raise taxes, if needed.

[Хahar 🤔]

the Democrats and Obama are running on a tax the rich platform quite successfully in the US

This really isn't something that's happening.

[Hatman 🍁]

While I'm nowhere near the centre ideologically, I know the NDP must move to the centre to get elected, and I am perfectly comfortable with that, as long as the goal will always be a social democratic country. We need to move to the centre, and then move back to the left, taking Canadians with us in the process.

[lilTommy]

While I'm nowhere near the centre ideologically, I know the NDP must move to the centre to get elected, and I am perfectly comfortable with that, as long as the goal will always be a social democratic country. We need to move to the centre, and then move back to the left, taking Canadians with us in the process.

I think this is what many social democrats like myself, Hatman,my guess Holmes too... see as the way to win the government. My saying is reverse what the Liberals did..." Run from the centre, govern from the left".
Also, policy is decided by the elected delegates at convention... and in that sense it will still be a mostly Left-of-Centre policy book. Its the messaging that will help, in some ways we can talk openly progressive (taxes, social policy) in other areas we need to speak more moderately (resources development, economic management).