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Author Topic: Denmark parliamentary election: 15-09-2011  (Read 56640 times)
Jens
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« Reply #50 on: August 29, 2011, 08:45:29 am »
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Hi guys
Lots of great questions from you, and some utterly stupid discussion about SF - I'll probably answer that at some point....

The Jyllandsposten test is ok - I'll try to answer any questions that might be (and if I suddenly find some time - to translate it)
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« Reply #51 on: August 29, 2011, 08:48:57 am »
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Isn't there an island in Denmark called LOLland

Yup, and a city called Middelfart - and do notice that when you use an elevator, a sigh lights up with this text: "I fart"

And I know a guy, who's name is Bent Kock...
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« Reply #52 on: August 29, 2011, 09:04:12 am »
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Hi guys
Lots of great questions from you, and some utterly stupid discussion about SF - I'll probably answer that at some point....

The Jyllandsposten test is ok - I'll try to answer any questions that might be (and if I suddenly find some time - to translate it)

I tried the English translation. It made the first question into "The Wage must be abolished" I found that amusing. Then I looked up the Danish term to see what it was about.
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« Reply #53 on: August 29, 2011, 09:13:34 am »
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Lol. Dansk Folkeparti first, despite picking the pro-immigration position on every such question. Go figure. (Unless I misunderstood the one about 24-year rule for families)


Dansk Folkeparti61%

Konservative59%
Venstre59%

Liberal Alliance49%
Radikale Venstre49%
Socialdemokratiet47%
Socialistic Folkerparti45%
Kristendemokraterne44%
Enhedslisten40%
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #54 on: August 29, 2011, 09:38:30 am »
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Isn't there an island in Denmark called LOLland

Yup, and a city called Middelfart - and do notice that when you use an elevator, a sigh lights up with this text: "I fart"

And I know a guy, who's name is Bent Kock...

Lolland is especially good because you have the obvious LOL thing, but also because of the Lollards.

Mind you, I also like the fact that there's a small island in Denmark called Møn (speaking as someone who lives within sight of Môn).
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« Reply #55 on: August 29, 2011, 10:00:08 am »
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OK guy, thanks for letting us know.

Its always healthy to be reminded that one's bias is not universal.  Do you always have bull sessions with people who agree with you?
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tpfkaw
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« Reply #56 on: August 29, 2011, 10:07:12 am »
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I thought this was pretty funny. Love the exception for White South Africans. And I'm surprised they haven't been scared by high crime rates among Hispanic-Americans!

Seriously?  They'd rather have Mexicans than Chinese?

Also, assuming I understood the questions right in Google Translate:

Liberal Alliance
56%
Venstre
54%
Konservative
46%
Dansk Folkeparti
45%
Radikale Venstre
41%
Enhedslisten
35%
Socialistic Folkerparti
29%
Kristendemokraterne
25%
Socialdemokratiet
19%

Which looks about right.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2011, 10:17:07 am by Amoralfag »Logged
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« Reply #57 on: August 29, 2011, 10:41:00 am »
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Yay google translator ! There are a few translated questions I couldn't even understand...
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« Reply #58 on: August 29, 2011, 11:03:37 am »
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Hi guys
Lots of great questions from you, and some utterly stupid discussion about SF - I'll probably answer that at some point....

The Jyllandsposten test is ok - I'll try to answer any questions that might be (and if I suddenly find some time - to translate it)

I tried the English translation. It made the first question into "The Wage must be abolished" I found that amusing. Then I looked up the Danish term to see what it was about.

I understood it like: "Should the overtime premiums be abolished ?" because "Should the wage be abolished ?" doesn't make much sense, unless it's a communist question.
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« Reply #59 on: August 29, 2011, 11:21:39 am »
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That'S what I get with a Chrome translation to German too, though. "Der Lohn muss abgeschafft werden." I don't agree at all, obviously.
Some others are weirdl, too. Question 12, going verbatim from German to English: "Profit you time, that 4-2 years has reduced, be prolonged again."

The result is in just an order of parties, right? In the top right?

Sozialdemokraten
RV
K (wtf?)
SF
DF
V
Liberal Alliance
Enhedslisten
KD

Quite strange even taking into account the comprehension issues.
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« Reply #60 on: August 29, 2011, 11:33:18 am »
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Ah, I see now. It doesn't work in google-translate.

So, retaking it in Danish with half-remembered meanings...

Enhedslisten 68
Social Democrats 60
SF 58
KD 55
RV 50
Alliance 41
C 37
DF 30
V 20
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« Reply #61 on: August 29, 2011, 12:38:27 pm »
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I assumed "Should the wage be abolished?" referred to the minimum wage.
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ingemann
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« Reply #62 on: August 29, 2011, 12:40:29 pm »
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Hi guys
Lots of great questions from you, and some utterly stupid discussion about SF - I'll probably answer that at some point....

The Jyllandsposten test is ok - I'll try to answer any questions that might be (and if I suddenly find some time - to translate it)

I tried the English translation. It made the first question into "The Wage must be abolished" I found that amusing. Then I looked up the Danish term to see what it was about.

I'm have taken that test, and I'm going to guess it's the Efterløn (dir. translated After-wage) which are the problem. It's a special early retirement policy, which let people leave the work force a little earlier (5 year earlier*) at a significant lower rate than the usual pension (but only until they reach the standard retirement age). It was original a way to get rid of youth unemployment by letting people retire earlier, but it has evolved into a policy popular among people in physical hard and low or  unskilled job, who rather than working until they collapse or need to go on førtidspension (early retirement for people with chronic diseases) go on efterløn. It's deeply unpopular among the academics and white collars who feel the deep injustice of paying to something which primary benefit others than themselves.

*it adapts to the rising retirement age
« Last Edit: August 29, 2011, 12:59:03 pm by ingemann »Logged
ingemann
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« Reply #63 on: August 29, 2011, 12:42:21 pm »
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By the way, Ingemann, welcome to the forum!!!



Thanks
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« Reply #64 on: August 29, 2011, 12:45:42 pm »
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a policy popular among people in physical hard and low or  unskilled job, who rather than working until they collapse or need to go on førtidspension (early retirement for people with chronic diseases) go on efterløn. It's deeply unpopular among the academics and blue collars who feel the deep injustice of paying to something which primary benefit others than themselves.

Either you meant "white collars" here or...
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« Reply #65 on: August 29, 2011, 12:53:48 pm »
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Hi guys
Lots of great questions from you, and some utterly stupid discussion about SF - I'll probably answer that at some point....

The Jyllandsposten test is ok - I'll try to answer any questions that might be (and if I suddenly find some time - to translate it)

I tried the English translation. It made the first question into "The Wage must be abolished" I found that amusing. Then I looked up the Danish term to see what it was about.

I'm have taken that test, and I'm going to guess it's the Efterløn (dir. translated After-wage) which are the problem. It's a special early retirement policy, which let people leave the work force a little earlier (5 year earlier*) at a significant lower rate than the usual pension (but only until they reach the standard retirement age). It was original a way to get rid of youth unemployment by letting people retire earlier, but it has evolved into a policy popular among people in physical hard and low or  unskilled job, who rather than working until they collapse or need to go on førtidspension (early retirement for people with chronic diseases) go on efterløn. It's deeply unpopular among the academics and blue collars who feel the deep injustice of paying to something which primary benefit others than themselves.

*it adapts to the rising retirement age

Ohhh, so I was completely wrong !

It's the Danish version of what we call the "Hacklerpension". In Austria this possibility of early retirement will be phased out by 2014, mostly because the ÖVP has argued that too many people are applying for it who are not classified as "hard workers", such as bureaucrats instead of construction workers. On this I´m on the workers side and I would like to see it continue for "hard workers" only, people who work in the construction business or steel business etc., while the bunch of overpaid bureaucrats can go an f**k themselves.
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ingemann
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« Reply #66 on: August 29, 2011, 12:58:11 pm »
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You guys wouldn't happen to have a link to a party test preferably in English, or even Swedish? I'm sort of curious to which party I'd be considered closest to. I'm guessing either Venstre, Radikale Venstre, or Liberal Alliance. I can read written Danish rather decently, but when it comes to politics there's always there will always be strange an hard words that non-speakers will have a hard time understanding.

You wouldn't vote with a party that allies with the far-right ? Huh

As opposed to parties that ally with the far-left?

You might have a point if that was anywhere remotely close to the truth.

Depends on one's perspective; I consider the Red-Green alliance parties to be far left, and the Danish People's Party has far less problematic origins than, say, the Socialist People's Party.

You mean the split from the Social Democrats after they didn't overthrow the king after his failed coup in 1920, the support of Trotsky over Stalin, the fact that it founder was thrown in Sachsenhausen under the War, their history of being one of the main group of Freedom Fighters under the War or their split from USSR after the Soviet intervention in Hungary? As far as parties go they have a lot less ugly history than the Conservative, who are successor to Høire, who more or less establised a dictatorship from 1866 to 1901. The primary reason DPP have a less distinct history than SPP, is more or less because all far right parties closed after 1945, so they had to reestablish themselves, when enough people who didn't remember the war became adult and could vote.

That information is quite different from that which is contained on their Wikipedia page (and for the record, supporting Trotsky over Stalin merely makes a group less extreme, not commendable); are you referring to the actions of the Communist Party of Denmark? :

I was referring to their origins in the Communist movement, which is a political ideology much farther to the left than anti-immigrant populism is to the right.  For that matter, I don't consider the Danish People's Party to be as far-right as 'Eurocommunism' is far-left.    



That's nice, but wikipedia aren't the answer to everything. To condemn SPP for it communist past are meaningless for people who don't know the context of its origin. The Social Democrats originated in a time, where a conservative royal supported semi-dictatorial ruled the country, it began moderate after this regime collapse in 1901, but after the king tried to coup the social liberal government, and the following social democratic "revolt" ended up compromising with the king (by letting the monarchy survive), the communists felt that the social democrats had betrayed their people and split from the social democrats. Most of the communist leaders was under the war either in KZ-camps, undeground (and member of the partisan movement) or fleed the country. Unsurprising this made them more loyal to USSR and Stalin after the War (while before the war they had been more hostile to Stalin), but it didn't keep them from split from USSR after the Soviet intervention in Hungary as the first communist party in West Europe, they used the next few decades to push for creation of a independent from USSR Eurosocialism. In my eyes that's a more worthy history than most parties around the world.

...and that's why using Wikipedia to pass judgement of random parties around based on a wikipedia article are not a good idea.
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ingemann
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« Reply #67 on: August 29, 2011, 12:58:40 pm »
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a policy popular among people in physical hard and low or  unskilled job, who rather than working until they collapse or need to go on førtidspension (early retirement for people with chronic diseases) go on efterløn. It's deeply unpopular among the academics and blue collars who feel the deep injustice of paying to something which primary benefit others than themselves.

Either you meant "white collars" here or...

Yes thanks
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« Reply #68 on: August 29, 2011, 02:39:35 pm »
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Du har meget til fælles med:
Socialdemokratiet70%
Du har en del til fælles med:
Socialistic Folkerparti67%
Kristendemokraterne59%
Enhedslisten56%
Radikale Venstre53%
Konservative42%
Dansk Folkeparti33%
Liberal Alliance29%
Venstre29%

I think this thing is broken.
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« Reply #69 on: August 29, 2011, 02:42:48 pm »
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That's nice, but wikipedia aren't the answer to everything. To condemn SPP for it communist past are meaningless for people who don't know the context of its origin. The Social Democrats originated in a time, where a conservative royal supported semi-dictatorial ruled the country, it began moderate after this regime collapse in 1901, but after the king tried to coup the social liberal government, and the following social democratic "revolt" ended up compromising with the king (by letting the monarchy survive), the communists felt that the social democrats had betrayed their people and split from the social democrats. Most of the communist leaders was under the war either in KZ-camps, undeground (and member of the partisan movement) or fleed the country. Unsurprising this made them more loyal to USSR and Stalin after the War (while before the war they had been more hostile to Stalin), but it didn't keep them from split from USSR after the Soviet intervention in Hungary as the first communist party in West Europe, they used the next few decades to push for creation of a independent from USSR Eurosocialism. In my eyes that's a more worthy history than most parties around the world.

...and that's why using Wikipedia to pass judgement of random parties around based on a wikipedia article are not a good idea.

[/quote]

My point being that they originated from the Communist movement, which is substantially more extreme than anti-immigration populist movements.  Of course they moderated over time....as have the 'far-right' political parties (including most of the parties that actually did originate from fascist movements).  I just think its absurd to personally blacklist a party in a Parliamentary setting for strategically allying with one type of off-center party but not another, which was the point of my original post.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #70 on: August 29, 2011, 03:42:55 pm »
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Take it outside, please. Denmark. Den-mark. Denmark only, I think. Diolch, etc.
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« Reply #71 on: August 29, 2011, 05:40:45 pm »
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I actually understood 90% of that test without need for translation.

My result:

Liberal Alliance - 61%
Venstre - 57%
Konservative - 56%
Dansk Folkeparti - 54%
Radikale Venstre - 53%
Socialdemokratiet - 48%
Socialistic Folkerparti - 46%
Enhedslisten - 45%

No surprise really, as I suspected LA and V in top. RV lower than I had thought, but then from what I've read they apperently have really soft left-wing bad education policies, and there where quite a few education questions (which I always rank as important)
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« Reply #72 on: August 31, 2011, 08:33:27 pm »
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Megafon poll from yesterday had the Social Democrats slightly behind Venstre, but the left still easily ahead. I hope this doesn't become another left-wing "defeat from the jaws of victory" moment we've grown oh so used to.
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« Reply #73 on: August 31, 2011, 08:53:05 pm »
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Anyone kind enough to give any brief outlines of the issues, the parties, how the leaders are perceived, etc? Thanks for any help.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #74 on: August 31, 2011, 08:58:30 pm »
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Megafon poll from yesterday had the Social Democrats slightly behind Venstre, but the left still easily ahead. I hope this doesn't become another left-wing "defeat from the jaws of victory" moment we've grown oh so used to.

Seems that a lot of polls come out every day or so; trackers? So long there are only a few like that, best not to worry too much.

Besides, I don't think that 'defeat from the jaws of victory' is limited to our side of the fence. Most recent defeats have been obvious from miles off, and quite a few haven't been quite so bad as looked likely during the campaign. Mind you, if that sort of thing happens just once it can be quite scarring.
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