Were the 1990's the peak of Western Civilization?

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

Inspired by BRTD.

Yes.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Ah yes, the peak of Western civilization just happened to be during the last twenty years. While it was definitely a good time economically and we were blessed with a Balanced Budget, does that really count something as the peak of all Western Civilization?

[they don't love you like i love you]

Yes. This will probably never be achieved again in my lifetime.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

They were neither the peak nor the 'peack'. Of course it's dubious that there are ever really such things as cultural zeniths, and the concept of 'Western Civilisation' is also pretty more dubious (albeit not entirely worthless), but if such a thing were possible (and had actually happened), then the 1990s would certainly not be any sort of peak. To the extent that it's fair to talk about decades in such generalised terms, it was one characterised by crass and vulgar consumerism, by cloying and commercialised nostalgia, by rapacious right-wing governments that were concerned only with markets, and by a certain sort of smug, overweening (and entirely unjustified) arrogance in the superiority of all of the above over everything else and anything else, the latter being especially dominant in the U.S and it's (mostly entirely worthless) cultural exports.

Many good things as well, of course. But then that's always the case.

*Most of these got chucked out towards the end of the decade, of course. But that's beside the point.

[phk]

Maybe for stockbrokers in the late 1990s.

A quote from the book "The Rise and Fall of LTCM" has an interesting quote to describe the 1990s:

"It is just not credible that the United States can remain an oasis of prosperity unaffected by a world that is experiencing greatly increased stress." - Greenspan in 1998

With that said... it was a great time.

Even if that sunny optimism was based upon an unsustainable bubble and overhyping of productivity gains from the internet, it should be said that that optimism felt good.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     No, 1986 was not in the 1990s.

[Eraserhead]

In no way shape or form. I think you could make a good argument for the 1960s/early 70s though.

[patrick1]

Yes. This will probably never be achieved again in my lifetime.

Could you qualify this bold claim? 

[Ban my account ffs!]

I like to think of western civilization in terms of energy.

The 1920s were the peak of Western Civilization under the power of coal.

The 1960s were the peak of Western Civilization under the power of oil.  This was stretched out in the 1970s thanks to conservation and efficiency efforts and new technology extended this prosperity somewhat in the 1980s and 90s... but has reached a point where we need to move into the next energy source.

The 1960s were a pretty amazing decade, all things considered... civil rights, womens' rights, and nearly endless economic growth and prosperity.

People look at the 50s as the decade of prosperity... but it was mostly forward thinking optimism.  The optimism and hard work really paid off in the 60s.  The 50s had some bumps and rough spots.  The 60s didn't really.

The average American's wealth began to stagnate and decline after 1973.

I have to believe that this nation would be a completely different place, a much better place, had Hubert Humphrey won the 1968 presidential election.

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

The 60's were. Things will, never, be as good as they were then. Not for us anyway. Check back in 500 years.

The 70's and 80's were us trying different ways to make things still work. The 90's and early 00's were us finding a way that appeared to work. The current "recession" is the proof that it did not really work at all.

[republicanism]

For many things I like in "Western Civilization", i.e. democracy and social progress, the 1970s could be considered a peak

Very high turnout levels, a peak of party membership (at least in Germany) and a very politized society in general.
Simultaneously a strong and growing public sector in the economy, a peak of employee participation and worker's rights.

Also many reforms to democratize universities and school reforms. Laws gave an equal status to women, decriminalized homosexuality and so on.
Of course especially what I mentioned in the last paragraph was only in it's infancy in the 70s, but there was optimism and confidence that the next decades would get even better.
Optimism of that kind, which is invaluable, is missed today big time.

And besides all that the 70s contributed greater music, literature and academic work than especially the 90s, hands down.

[dead0man]

Holy crap you people are depressing.  We haven't had the "peak" of Western Civilization yet.

[Antonio the Sixth]

ROFL

And yeah, even if there had been a peak in western civilization, it would be the late 60s-early 70s as Repub says.

[Boris]

Imagine skateboarding to Circuit City, purchasing Nevermind, and coming home to enjoy an ice cold Crystal Pepsi. Twenty years ago on this exact day. You just can't beat that. It's impossible.

[The Mikado]

Honestly, I'm not sure how you can justify using a post-World War I date for this.

[republicanism]

Honestly, I'm not sure how you can justify using a post-World War I date for this.

Well but pre-WWI was a society of an utterly privileged upper classes and an utterly depressed majority. Not to mention the situation of women, the colonialism etc.

No question that great art and philosophic work was done in the 19th century, but so was in old Greece or in the Renaissance era, nevertheless those centuries were a hellhole for 90% of the population.

"Western Civilization", if we want to use the term in an affirmative sense at all, has to be defined as a project of emancipation, participation and social justice.

Just my two cents.

[The Mikado]

Honestly, I'm not sure how you can justify using a post-World War I date for this.

Well but pre-WWI was a society of an utterly privileged upper classes and an utterly depressed majority. Not to mention the situation of women, the colonialism etc.

No question that great art and philosophic work was done in the 19th century, but so was in old Greece or in the Renaissance era, nevertheless those centuries were a hellhole for 90% of the population.

"Western Civilization", if we want to use the term in an affirmative sense at all, has to be defined as a project of emancipation, participation and social justice.

Just my two cents.

But...why should it be used in an affirmative sense?  1900 makes sense because "Westerners" (the Europeans) or their progeny (the US and the Republics of Latin America) dominated or heavily influenced the entire globe.  Said grip has seriously loosened.  I don't see why democracy, women's rights, pluralism etc. are more fundamental to the Western experience than colonial imperialism and military dominance.

[republicanism]

But...why should it be used in an affirmative sense? 

I didn't say it should be. I said "if we want to...".

If you look at it with something like a Nitzschean "pathos of distance" (I hope this is the right term in English), blind for the suffering of the masses, of course you could make an argument that the late 19th and early 20th century was a peak of art and culture in some sense.

I have to add though that personally I'm not enough of an expert on art and literature to make such a statement.

1900 makes sense because "Westerners" (the Europeans) or their progeny (the US and the Republics of Latin America) dominated or heavily influenced the entire globe.  Said grip has seriously loosened.  I don't see why democracy, women's rights, pluralism etc. are more fundamental to the Western experience than colonial imperialism and military dominance.

If you look at it that way, I absolutely agree with you. Thinking about it, your definition of Western Civilization is a lot more to the point than mine

[opebo]

Holy crap you people are depressing.  We haven't had the "peak" of Western Civilization yet.

Wow, you seriously believe that? Its been in decline all our lives.

But I voted 'yes' to support my pal BRTD.

[© tweed]

no, 1914-1945

[republicanism]

Wow, you seriously believe that? Its been in decline all our lives.

When do you think the peak was?

[Lief 🗽]

The answer is the late 60s/early 70s, right before the middle-class was destroyed.

[opebo]

Wow, you seriously believe that? Its been in decline all our lives.

When do you think the peak was?

Late sixties early seventies like Lief said.

[republicanism]

The answer is the late 60s/early 70s, right before the middle-class was destroyed.

That's an interesting argument.

I would argue that the main point was the destruction/bleeding to death of the organized working class in the 1980s.
The "middle class" (a very diffuse term in general) had a renaissance in the late 70s and 80s (Maggie Thatchers "consumer capitalism", the analogous ideas of Reagan and so on).

[Mechaman]

Imagine skateboarding to Circuit City, purchasing Nevermind, and coming home to enjoy an ice cold Crystal Pepsi. Twenty years ago on this exact day. You just can't beat that. It's impossible.

BEST POST EVER.