How would you solve the Israel-Palestine situation?

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

Here's how I's solve it:
http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?authuser=0&vps=4&hl=en&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=214668381355121949879.00049afec217cdeb22f83

[dead0man]

I don't get the orange circle in the north, isn't that Israel territory already?  There is no way the Golan is going back anywhere while there is still threats in the region.  Maybe after a decade or so of solid peace.

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

I don't get the orange circle in the north, isn't that Israel territory already?  There is no way the Golan is going back anywhere while there is still threats in the region.  Maybe after a decade or so of solid peace.

It is part of Israel. It's also 50%+1 Arab and 50%+1 Muslim. Closer to 70%-80% on both counts actually, though there are also a fair number of Arab Christians here.

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_District_(Israel)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haifa_District

It's based on research I did many years ago, where I literally pinpointed every muslim-majority village in Israel. That's how all of this started. It was only when I realized I could easily draw a line around them that this idea took off.

I'll edit in any more info as/if I find it

[joevsimp]

So the land going to Israel is automatic, but the potential land being gained by Palestine is dependent on a referendum?  That should go well

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

Israel loses land, save some settlements.

more info:
http://geocurrents.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Northern-Israel-religion-map.jpg
http://geocurrents.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Israeli-Arabs-Map.jpg

[Dereich]

Many Israelis wouldn't accept the loss of Hebron and East Jerusalem, and for the Palestinians questions of borders often take a backseat to the right of return and the IDF in the West Bank. While its a noble effort, I think it would enrage the Israelis and not solve the Palestinians main questions.

[ag]

Arad has over 20,000 people who would have to be resettled: it would seem that one would place the interests of these law-abiding Israelis ahead of some of the illegal settlers (there are also a few other Jewish villages in the southern extension of the West Bank). Same is true of Meitar - overall, I'd guess, there should be close to 40,000 Israeli Jews in that zone. Also, Israel would, probably, be extremely nervous about the frontier being so close to Dimona and its arms industries.

"Referendum Galilee" is too much of a hodgepodge, but isn't it mostly Jewish (bar Nazareth)? Keeping Nazrat Ilit in that bit suggests that much. If that's so, there isn't a point of  doing the Referendum. In any case, were the referendum to result in a sessession vote, there would be numerous Jewish communities that would have to be resettled and the Israeli bit north of Acre would be split off the rest of Israel and untenable.

On the other hand, Um al-Fahm is to be transferred to Palestine sans the poll - does it mean its Israeli Arabs would be stripped of Israeli citizenship if they choose to stay in town? What about those, who have moved/will move elsewhere into Israel? Same about the Bedouine in the southern zone.

The Gaza extension is nearly separate from Gaza. Why create the third enclave (and purely desert at that)?  Smaller bits along Gaza border would make more sense.

To sum up, I think this is unnecessarily radical and too accomodating of the settlers at the expense of other Israelis.

[ag]

Many Israelis wouldn't accept the loss of Hebron and East Jerusalem, and for the Palestinians questions of borders often take a backseat to the right of return and the IDF in the West Bank. While its a noble effort, I think it would enrage the Israelis and not solve the Palestinians main questions.

There is no feasible agreement under which half of Hebron stays under Israeli control for the benefit of 1% of its population. Nor is there any agreement under which, at least, parts of East Jerusalem do not join Palestine.  Those who suggest otherwise are kidding themselves.

[Insula Dei]

One of my professors actually was UN observer in Hebron in the late 1990s. The impression he gave me was that the small Jewish community there might very well be untenable in the long run, no matter what. But then, he's hardly supposed to have an opinion on that and I might be reading too much into his comments, anyway.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

To sum up, I think this is unnecessarily radical and too accomodating of the settlers at the expense of other Israelis.

In other words, it would go down like a cup of cold sick.

[Antonio the Sixth]

1967 borders, Jerusalem as a neutral UN-administered city, Golan remains to Israel.

Not gonna happen, of course.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Not gonna happen, of course.

what do you think is going to happen...walk us through the next 10 years

[John Dibble]

Through world domination and installing a super laser in geosynchronous orbit above the region to destroy all who disturb the peace - clearly that's the only rational solution.

[2952-0-0]

My solution would be a bit round-about and needs the approval of the Arab Street, so I'm not sure how likely it is.

First the Arab revolutionary countries should enact some reforms to make corruption at most tolerable. Then they should welcome back the Jews who had been expelled in 1948, and their descendants, and grant them full citizenship rights, property rights, etc. This would channel billions in Foreign Investment into Arab countries. Also, ordinary Arabs would see first hand that Jews are not evil and plotting to take over the world, etc.

This will also make hundreds of thousands of Sephardi Jews leave Israel and reduce the proportion of Jews in Israel by a few percentages. Then, make sure the largest Israeli companies have important direct investments in the Arab countries. During Israeli election campaigns, the main political parties actively campaign for the votes of Israelis in Arab countries.

Once this is done, it will be difficult for any political party in Israel to continue the status quo, since the bulk of their wealthiest supporters will balk at anything which threatens their interests. And every time the IDF launches another operation into Gaza/West Bank/Lebanon, bureaucrats in Egypt, Tunisia, etc suddenly become more hungry for bribes from Israeli investors than usual. A few phone calls between the Israeli Prime Minister and his buddies let cooler heads prevail.

Let this state of affairs continue for 15 years, and it will be very difficult for Israel to continue existing in its present form. But of course my solution needs Alien Space Bats to make it possible.

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

Many Israelis wouldn't accept the loss of Hebron and East Jerusalem, and for the Palestinians questions of borders often take a backseat to the right of return and the IDF in the West Bank. While its a noble effort, I think it would enrage the Israelis and not solve the Palestinians main questions.

Hebron?
Suck on it.

East Jerusalem?
The Arab parts have no business being part of Israel.

IDF along the Jordan River in the West Bank?
The West Bank won't be part of Israel anymore, so the I in IDF would have to GTFO

Right of Return?
Palestinians are welcome to return to Palestine any time. Israel=/=Palestine.

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

Arad has over 20,000 people who would have to be resettled: it would seem that one would place the interests of these law-abiding Israelis ahead of some of the illegal settlers (there are also a few other Jewish villages in the southern extension of the West Bank). Same is true of Meitar - overall, I'd guess, there should be close to 40,000 Israeli Jews in that zone.

They don't have to move.

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Suck on it. Israel has used it's arms industry to blow up enough sh*t.

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I'm not certain what you are looking at?

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Again, nobody has to move.

 and the Israeli bit north of Acre would be split off the rest of Israel and untenable.
[/quote]
This is false, as nobody is concerned about this and Gaza

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I don't make Israeli Citizenship law, Israel does, you'd have to ask them.

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I cite the arms industry from above. Palestine has the right to put "secret" bullcrap in the desert too.

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[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

1967 borders, Jerusalem as a neutral UN-administered city, Golan remains to Israel.

Not gonna happen, of course.

My plan deals with many more problems than this would, and this plan would create a host of new problems.

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

I've edited the map in response to a lot of the comments. I see a lot of these things as distractions. Adding Golan was an option, not a requirement, so I just removed it altogether. I hope that this new map has much fewer distractions.

[ag]

You should think of a plan that has a chance of being implemented. What you are proposing is ensuring that nothing will be implemented: sucks, but such are the facts of life.

1. Extension of Gaza into Egypt is not very likely - why would Egypt go along?

2. Leave Galilee out of it. What's done is done - this is Israel. Not even the local Arabs are agitating for cession to Palestine - so don't raise the issue that's not being raised.  If you start talking referendum, there will be an issue of who's got to vote and how's the question formulated, etc., etc.: this is the best way of ensuring that no plan ever gets implemented, period.  And, of course, no plan that involves potentially cutting off Galilee and splitting off the bit north of Acre is going to be approved unless the area is first militarily occupied and Israel is comprehensively defeated: none of this is happening by any sort of negotiation.

3. The Dimona thing's serious for the same reason - Israel will go to war for this, no question.  

[ag]

As for population movement. Some ultra-Orthodox Jews might choose to stay in independent Palestine, as might an occasional Commie (if you happen to draw his home into the exchange). Overwhelmingly, nobody else is staying: you should assume that. It is possible to write into the agreement that some of the ultras in Hebron stay under Palestinian sovereignty - it would involve a lot of negotiation, guarantees, etc., etc., but it could work. It is impossible to negotiate that a run-of-the-mill Russian stays there - simply because he'd move, no matter what guarantees you provide: he doesn't want to live under the Arabs.

It simply makes no sense to draw any major Israeli town into Palestine: it would be both easier and more just to cut off some of the settlement blocks, decreasing the size of the area to be exchanged instead.

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

I'm willing to extend the southern area a bit further north, but the Northern Island is key to the entire plan. I am however willing to remove the Acre bit, but only if I hear significant feedback in that direction. Remember, it's a referendum, free, and if they vote no, they vote no.

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

As for population movement. Some ultra-Orthodox Jews might choose to stay in independent Palestine, as might an occasional Commie (if you happen to draw his home into the exchange). Overwhelmingly, nobody else is staying: you should assume that. It is possible to write into the agreement that some of the ultras in Hebron stay under Palestinian sovereignty - it would involve a lot of negotiation, guarantees, etc., etc., but it could work. It is impossible to negotiate that a run-of-the-mill Russian stays there - simply because he'd move, no matter what guarantees you provide: he doesn't want to live under the Arabs.

It simply makes no sense to draw any major Israeli town into Palestine: it would be both easier and more just to cut off some of the settlement blocks, decreasing the size of the area to be exchanged instead.

I'm still not sure which major Israeli towns you are talking about. The only ones, outside the southern and northern zones I discussed above, are ones that many Israelis themselves have proposed be joined to Palestine because they are majority Palestinian.

[2952-0-0]

Face it, any border across the region is going to result in mass semi-voluntary migration on all sides and given the emotions present it would end up like a mini-partition of India.

Given that Netanyahu is not willing to even slow down settlement building even immediately after last week's events, he might well be considered the father of a single state.

[Jacobtm]

1 secular state.