Did Obama win Christians in Utah?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I think he might've actually.

Keep in mind even in Utah the Hispanics are mostly Catholic.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Certainly not.  Unless you don't consider Mormons Christian, of course.

[FloridaRepublican]

Mormons are Christians, so no.

[ag]

Mormons are Christians, so no.

Not by the definition of most Christians, so he might have.

[Sbane]

Mormons are Christians, so no.

Not by the definition of most Christians, so he might have.

Please elaborate.

Most Christians don't consider Mormons to be Christians. What's so hard to understand? I can't give you a theological explanation, it is what it is.

[FloridaRepublican]

Mormons are Christians, so no.

Not by the definition of most Christians, so he might have.

Please elaborate.

Most Christians don't consider Mormons to be Christians. What's so hard to understand? I can't give you a theological explanation, it is what it is.

Whether other Christians "consider" Mormons to be Christians or not is out of the question. Mormons are Christians. Period. The question was "Did Obama win Christians in Utah?" not "Did Obama win what non-Mormon Christians consider Christians in Utah?"

[mondale84]

Mormons are Christians, so no.

Not by the definition of most Christians, so he might have.

Please elaborate.

Most Christians don't consider Mormons to be Christians. What's so hard to understand? I can't give you a theological explanation, it is what it is.

Whether other Christians "consider" Mormons to be Christians or not is out of the question. Mormons are Christians. Period. The question was "Did Obama win Christians in Utah?" not "Did Obama win what non-Mormon Christians consider Christians in Utah?"

Obviously what was intended was "Did Obama win non-Mormon Christians in Utah?" I don't think anyone would think that he won Christians if you include Mormons.

[Sbane]

Mormons are Christians, so no.

Not by the definition of most Christians, so he might have.

Please elaborate.

Most Christians don't consider Mormons to be Christians. What's so hard to understand? I can't give you a theological explanation, it is what it is.

Whether other Christians "consider" Mormons to be Christians or not is out of the question. Mormons are Christians. Period. The question was "Did Obama win Christians in Utah?" not "Did Obama win what non-Mormon Christians consider Christians in Utah?"

Many people would disagree with you that Mormons are Christians, including the OP I would think. Though maybe I am wrong about that.

[patrick1]

I think BRTD may have been a good Jesuit or maybe an O.P. in Spain back in the day.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Mormons aren't Christians, end of story. They're a strange lunacy cult that disturbs me greatly.

This is coming from an atheist who lives in an area with many Mormons.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Mormon baptism are not considered valid! Christian denominations accept other denominations' baptism as valid if you wish to convert if they were done in accordance with their standards. If I wanted to become a Catholic, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Methodist or some other type of Lutheran I could without being rebaptized because I already have been. And if I get baptized as an adult (which I probably will, but my church does baptisms only once a year, and it's in August), I could join any other church that does adult baptism without being rebaptized again as well. My church doesn't even consider it a big deal I haven't been baptized as an adult or insist on it happening again, I could still take a role or position in it. I'd only have to be rebaptized in order to be ordained as an associate pastor.

However Mormon baptism are NOT accepted. The other denominations listed above require people baptized as Mormons to be rebaptized to convert. The reverse is also true. Mormons don't baptize babies, but if I got baptized in my church as an adult and wanted to convert to Mormonism (let's assume I get a head injury or something), I would have to be rebaptized. If Mormons are Christian, why is this an issue?

I think BRTD may have been a good Jesuit or maybe an O.P. in Spain back in the day.

I really can't imagine myself as a Catholic. Simply can't.

[DrScholl]

If you are excluding Mormonism, then he probably did win it. The LDS percentage in the state almost exactly matches partisan numbers. Republicans have little support outside the LDS in Utah.

I might add that the church is called the Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints and accept Jesus Christ as their savior, therefore, they are part of Christianity.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Mormons also reject the Trinity and their churches don't have crosses on them.

[patrick1]

I think BRTD may have been a good Jesuit or maybe an O.P. in Spain back in the day.

I really can't imagine myself as a Catholic. Simply can't.

Well that was the accepted, authentic form in W. Christendom for a thousand years. You have a rather keen eye for heresy and false churches. You likely could have moved up the ranks, Cardinal.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I think BRTD may have been a good Jesuit or maybe an O.P. in Spain back in the day.

I really can't imagine myself as a Catholic. Simply can't.

Well that was the accepted, authentic form in W. Christendom for a thousand years. You have a rather keen eye for heresy and false churches. You likely could have moved up the ranks, Cardinal.

That's actually rather funny because Catholicism is basically the polar opposite from my tradition of Christianity on most things, (role of hierarchy, emphasis on ritual, style of worship, etc.) And actually I am the "heretic" today, you know my brand of hipster Christianity isn't too popular with the established churches or evangelical leaders.

Mormon baptism are not considered valid! Christian denominations accept other denominations' baptism as valid if you wish to convert if they were done in accordance with their standards. If I wanted to become a Catholic, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Methodist or some other type of Lutheran I could without being rebaptized because I already have been. And if I get baptized as an adult (which I probably will, but my church does baptisms only once a year, and it's in August), I could join any other church that does adult baptism without being rebaptized again as well. My church doesn't even consider it a big deal I haven't been baptized as an adult or insist on it happening again, I could still take a role or position in it.

However Mormon baptism are NOT accepted. The other denominations listed above require people baptized as Mormons to be rebaptized to convert. The reverse is also true. Mormons don't baptize babies, but if I got baptized in my church as an adult and wanted to convert to Mormonism (let's assume I get a head injury or something), I would have to be rebaptized. If Mormons are Christian, why is this an issue?

What about Greek and Russian Orthodox "Christians" and Unitarians (the John Adams kind)?

Orthodox baptisms are accepted as valid in other churches that baptize infants and vice-versa. Unitarians aren't Christian either and don't require baptism. I think some Unitarian churches do if the parents request it but most Christian denominations don't consider those valid because they don't baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (but in the name of the Creator or something like that.)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The CNN exit poll doesn't have numbers for the Christian groups because they are too small, but it does McCain winning 78% of Mormons with 19% for Obama. And that's 75% of voters.

"Other" and "None" make up 11%. They were about 75% Obama nationwide.

So that means that 14% of voters were Christian. 14.25% of voters were Mormons for Obama, and "other" and "none" were probably around 8.25% for Obama. Obama got 34.22% in the state, and got 22.5% from those two groups based on these numbers. That actually means he would've had to have received the vast majority of those voters. Now he probably did a little worse amongst "Other" and "None" than nationally but it's hard to crunch the numbers and not see him winning Christians.

(The only odd thing I see is the numbers are 2% Protestant, 4% Catholic and 8% "Other Christian. I assume that mostly consists of either black churches [obviously not a ton of those in Utah.] or non-denominationals who refuse to associate as Protestant, but it seems weird that these would make up the majority of Christians in Utah.)

[patrick1]

That is my point BRTD.  Your own views are historically heretical. However, even with your inclusive church views you still condemn heresy as you see it. Luther sought to reform a church  in need of reform and ended up taking some of the worst elements of it with him. Mormons are different but need not be dismissed out of hand.

[mondale84]

Mormons aren't Christians, end of story. They're a strange lunacy cult that disturbs me greatly.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Mormons are Christians.

[Lincoln Republican]

Mormons are Christians, end of story.

But back to the original question in this thread, before it got hijacked.

Did Obama win Christians in Utah?

The answer is since Obama did not win the Mormon vote in Utah, then no, he did not win the Christian vote in Utah. 

[All Along The Watchtower]

Just because Mormons are weird and strange doesn't mean they're not Christians.

If people were excluded based on being " a strange lunacy cult", then you could exclude a lot of Christians worldwide.

[phk]

I thought this level of sectarianism was for Levantine Arabs

[minionofmidas]

Certainly not.  Unless you consider Catholics Christian, of course.

[minionofmidas]

While there are slight differences about which sentences exactly belong in the Bible and in which order, no (other) Christian Church has anything remotely like the Book of Mormon, and its existence is, from a purely theological point of view, a massive, huge, disqualifying heresy. You might almost as well consider Muslims to be Jews.

Culturally, of course, Mormons (more so than the Native American Church, which also references Jesus Christ. As does Islam, of course.) are part of the great American Protestant Christian Tradition. A somewhat divergent part, but clearly a part.

So bottomline. They're Christians, but not.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The Book of Mormon also contradicts the Bible, for example take the bit about Jesus and Satan being brothers. This contradicts a lot about Jesus being the only Son of God, for example see this oft-quoted verse:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Then the bit about how God was once a man on another planet and therefore did not create the entire universe...

For a more borderline case you might want to ask if Unity is Christian, I'd say they are but I'm sure jmfcst wouldn't.