Use of the N-word: Justifiable by skin color?

[Grumpier Than Thou]

I'm not talking about the "a" ending here, I'm talking about the "er" ending.

Inspired by this spat between Barbara Walters and Sherri Shepard.

Are white people automatically "racist" if they use the word? If so, are black people insensitive to their own past by using the word?

Discuss.

[Franzl]

A little too much importance is placed on the word itself. Much more relevant is the context in which it is said.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

A little too much importance is placed on the word itself. Much more relevant is the context in which it is said.

That's basically what I say.

The word itself is not offensive, it is in the context that is used that makes it offensive, IMO.

[Cincinnatus]

A little too much importance is placed on the word itself. Much more relevant is the context in which it is said.

Sure.  It's not a word I would personally use in any context, unless I was quoting an old novel or something similar.  I don't think it should really be a word in our vocabulary, but it doesn't mean anyone who uses it is racist (though it can often be a tell).  It also baffles me that African American teens call each other by the word, listen to music with the word, yet hate the word.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

A little too much importance is placed on the word itself. Much more relevant is the context in which it is said.

Sure.  It's not a word I would personally use in any context, unless I was quoting an old novel or something similar.  I don't think it should really be a word in our vocabulary, but it doesn't mean anyone who uses it is racist (though it can often be a tell). It also baffles me that African American teens call each other by the word, listen to music with the word, yet hate the word.

It baffles me as well.

[Link]

A little too much importance is placed on the word itself. Much more relevant is the context in which it is said.

Sure.  It's not a word I would personally use in any context, unless I was quoting an old novel or something similar.  I don't think it should really be a word in our vocabulary, but it doesn't mean anyone who uses it is racist (though it can often be a tell). It also baffles me that African American teens call each other by the word, listen to music with the word, yet hate the word.

It baffles me as well.

And this is why I say were are not in a post racial America.  No matter how many Barak Obamas there are in America (classy, hard working, Ivy League, gentlemen) there will always be troglodytes that find the worst examples of any race and hold them up as representing the entire ethnic group in question.  There are classless black people and classless white people.  What I don't understand about certain white people is why they are so obsessed with classless black people.  You have this piece of garbage Laura Schlessinger who calls herself "Doctor"  and uses the "N word" eleven times on a radio program when speaking with an African American.  I personally don't know of ANY 60-something year old African American doctor who speaks that way.  I also don't know of any 60-something year old African American doctor who would get on the radio and wish to emulate some redneck in a trailer park.

If you are white and have class act like it.  Try and follow the example of classy, educated African Americans.

And by the way I like Arnold Schwarzenegger movies.  That does not mean I would go around killing people with a sawed off shot gun.  Neither does it mean I would commit adultery with my fat ugly house keeper.  I can go to the movies pay for my tickets suspend disbelief for two hours and then come back to reality.  It doesn't mean I like EVERYTHING in the movie and it doesn't mean I take moral guidance about my personal life from the actors.  Relax, have a beer, and listen to some good hip hop; just don't take it literally and don't take it as a manual for life.  Who knows you may actually enjoy it.

[Cincinnatus]

A little too much importance is placed on the word itself. Much more relevant is the context in which it is said.

Sure.  It's not a word I would personally use in any context, unless I was quoting an old novel or something similar.  I don't think it should really be a word in our vocabulary, but it doesn't mean anyone who uses it is racist (though it can often be a tell). It also baffles me that African American teens call each other by the word, listen to music with the word, yet hate the word.

It baffles me as well.

And this is why I say were are not in a post racial America.  No matter how many Barak Obamas there are in America (classy, hard working, Ivy League, gentlemen) there will always be troglodytes that find the worst examples of any race and hold them up as representing the entire ethnic group in question.  There are classless black people and classless white people.  What I don't understand about certain white people is why they are so obsessed with classless black people.  You have this piece of garbage Laura Schlessinger who calls herself "Doctor"  and uses the "N word" eleven times on a radio program when speaking with an African American.  I personally don't know of ANY 60-something year old African American doctor who speaks that way.  I also don't know of any 60-something year old African American doctor who would get on the radio and wish to emulate some redneck in a trailer park.

If you are white and have class act like it.  Try and follow the example of classy, educated African Americans.

And by the way I like Arnold Schwarzenegger movies.  That does not mean I would go around killing people with a sawed off shot gun.  Neither does it mean I would commit adultery with my fat ugly house keeper.  I can go to the movies pay for my tickets suspend disbelief for two hours and then come back to reality.  It doesn't mean I like EVERYTHING in the movie and it doesn't mean I take moral guidance about my personal life from the actors.  Relax, have a beer, and listen to some good hip hop; just don't take it literally and don't take it as a manual for life.  Who knows you may actually enjoy it.

Do you enjoy going around this forum finding random arguments you can hastily insert yourself into?  No one is characterizing African Americans as not classy based on one segment of their population.  The fact is, this thread brought up the question, and in the context of said question, it arose.  It seems to me that you are the one here obsessed with what you call a non post-racial America.  When you have something worth saying, whether it be posing a question, or responding to a thread without be a condescending dick, let me know.

[dead0man]

No, for the reasons given.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

My response to Link's rant.

[minionofmidas]

Are white people automatically "racist" if they use the word? If so, are black people insensitive to their own past by using the word?

*Automatically*? No. And to the second question, no.

Are Whites who complain about the issue like it's some kind of grievance at least somewhat affected by racist thought patterns? Yes.

[Mechaman]

In regards to the poll question: no.

It is everyone's right to be able to say whatever the hell they want to say.  That's why the 1st Amendment gives "Freedom of Speech and Expression" and not "Freedom of Speech and Expression unless you use racial and ethnic slurs".
In regards to whether it should be justifiable by skin color?
How can anybody say "yes" without entertaining racist thoughts?

[Link]

Do you enjoy going around this forum finding random arguments you can hastily insert yourself into?  No one is characterizing African Americans as not classy based on one segment of their population.  The fact is, this thread brought up the question, and in the context of said question, it arose.  It seems to me that you are the one here obsessed with what you call a non post-racial America.  When you have something worth saying, whether it be posing a question, or responding to a thread without be a condescending dick, let me know.

People with class do not use the "N" word and they are in no way curious about it.  The only people that use that word are classless individuals of all races.  The only people that are curious enough about the word to start threads and do polls about it are a certain type of white person.  I was taught as a child to never use this word in any circumstance.  So that is where my knowledge and curiosity ended.  I've noticed over the years though that the "Dr." Laura types of white people are really interested in that word.  I don't know if they like to use it or if they just like ruminating about it but they are the ones that consistently bring it up.  No one else, just them.  It's just odd.

And God forbid you give them any push back.  They will go on crazy rants and start using even more bad language.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

Ahh sweet peace.

[Napoleon]

Ahh sweet peace.

Same.

And to be clear I stand against politucal correctness.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

Ahh sweet peace.

Same.

And to be clear I stand against politucal correctness.

^^^^^^^^^^^

[fezzyfestoon]

I don't think that has anything to do with it, it has everything to do with the intent and the audience. Some people find it offensive in all contexts, some find it offensive coming from a white person, some people aren't offended by it at all. Those feelings are understandable in all circumstances, do there need to be absolute rules regarding it?

[memphis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82dDnv9zeLs&ob=av2e

[Link]

I don't think that has anything to do with it, it has everything to do with the intent and the audience. Some people find it offensive in all contexts, some find it offensive coming from a white person, some people aren't offended by it at all. Those feelings are understandable in all circumstances, do there need to be absolute rules regarding it?

Agreed.  Individuals within human societies have complex and at times subtle interactions that 95+% of people have figured out once they have become adults.  There is always going to be a minority of people of every skin color who are simply not going to "get it" and flout convention at every turn.  The added anonymity of the internet has only increased this type of behavior.  Indeed a large segment of the society that "knows better" and would never use the "N" word in public or vocalize their curiosity about why they can't use it feel liberated by the anonymity of the internet and shout it from the virtual rooftop.

I found the Rick Perry hunting lease thread interesting.  When the controversy regarding its historical name erupted you had posters from all over the world saying they had a similar sounding word in their country and it meant this or it meant that.  It was amusing.  There is a country in Africa called Niger.  That doesn't mean it is acceptable to call people halfway around the world the "N" word?  Sure all these words are just words if you take them totally out of context and ignore the speaker and the audience.  Unfortunately I'm not sure what kind of intelligent adult has conversations that way.  Furthermore all words come from somewhere.  I am constantly surprised about the alleged origin of numerous words in the English language.  Just because a word or the forerunner of a word had a legitimate polite meaning 300 years ago doesn't mean it can't be offensive today.  Again this is basic common sense stuff that most normal adults have figured out by the time they've left high school but we continue to have to deal with the noxious posts and utterances of the minority that just don't "get it."

[J. J.]

A little too much importance is placed on the word itself. Much more relevant is the context in which it is said.

Sure.  It's not a word I would personally use in any context, unless I was quoting an old novel or something similar.  I don't think it should really be a word in our vocabulary, but it doesn't mean anyone who uses it is racist (though it can often be a tell). It also baffles me that African American teens call each other by the word, listen to music with the word, yet hate the word.

It baffles me as well.

It is a term of endearment, and yes, people have applied to me as such.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

It depends on the context. African-Americans obviously don't use the word in a racist context, whites tend to do so.

[The Mikado]

Seriously, do people not understand how a word that carries connotations of ownership of another human being can be used as a term of endearment and group solidarity within the target group as well as a dehumanizing attack when applied to them from outside?

Frankly, white (and it usually is white) people that go "why don't I get to say n" are scum.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

Seriously, do people not understand how a word that carries connotations of ownership of another human being can be used as a term of endearment and group solidarity within the target group as well as a dehumanizing attack when applied to them from outside?

Frankly, white (and it usually is white) people that go "why don't I get to say n" are scum.

It's not a matter of "Why can't we say n?", it's a matter of "Why can they say n?"

[Link]

It's not a matter of "Why can't we say n?", it's a matter of "Why can they say n?"

They can't.  As I stated before I've known black doctors, engineers, financiers, and lawyers and I never once heard any of them use that word or ever have a conversation about it.  On the other hand I have seen various white people on TV, the radio, and internet obsess about that word.  It's not healthy and it says something about them.  My advice is if you want to emulate African American behavior find a black person that was raised in a good home who is well educated and upwardly mobile.  Observe their behavior.  A good example is our president.  Listen to his speeches.  If you listen closely you will notice he never uses that word.  Those are the types of African Americans you should try and associate with.  Ignore the lowlifes.

Using that word immediately identifies the speaker as being crude.  The implications are somewhat different based on race.  Unfortunately this forum is a woefully inadequate medium for delivering the socialization that some posters apparently didn't receive in their younger days.  It is difficult to adequately convey the subtleties of modern American life to people that have failed to "get it" by the time they are adults.

[Gustaf]

Do you enjoy going around this forum finding random arguments you can hastily insert yourself into?  No one is characterizing African Americans as not classy based on one segment of their population.  The fact is, this thread brought up the question, and in the context of said question, it arose.  It seems to me that you are the one here obsessed with what you call a non post-racial America.  When you have something worth saying, whether it be posing a question, or responding to a thread without be a condescending dick, let me know.

People with class do not use the "N" word and they are in no way curious about it.  The only people that use that word are classless individuals of all races.  The only people that are curious enough about the word to start threads and do polls about it are a certain type of white person.  I was taught as a child to never use this word in any circumstance.  So that is where my knowledge and curiosity ended.  I've noticed over the years though that the "Dr." Laura types of white people are really interested in that word.  I don't know if they like to use it or if they just like ruminating about it but they are the ones that consistently bring it up.  No one else, just them.  It's just odd.

And God forbid you give them any push back.  They will go on crazy rants and start using even more bad language.

I do not know about you, but I personally favour a classless society.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

It's not a matter of "Why can't we say n?", it's a matter of "Why can they say n?"

They can't.  As I stated before I've known black doctors, engineers, financiers, and lawyers and I never once heard any of them use that word or ever have a conversation about it.  On the other hand I have seen various white people on TV, the radio, and internet obsess about that word.  It's not healthy and it says something about them.  My advice is if you want to emulate African American behavior find a black person that was raised in a good home who is well educated and upwardly mobile.  Observe their behavior.  A good example is our president.  Listen to his speeches.  If you listen closely you will notice he never uses that word.  Those are the types of African Americans you should try and associate with.  Ignore the lowlifes.

Using that word immediately identifies the speaker as being crude.  The implications are somewhat different based on race.  Unfortunately this forum is a woefully inadequate medium for delivering the socialization that some posters apparently didn't receive in their younger days.  It is difficult to adequately convey the subtleties of modern American life to people that have failed to "get it" by the time they are adults.

Because a majority of American black teenagers (and adults) don't listen to this kind of music?