$250,000 a year isn't rich!

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Mockery aside, I suppose it is normal to consider your own circumstances normal... when you're a child. So I grew up in a small house (actually an end terrace), but never thought of it as a 'small house', and in a low income household, but would never have assumed that (and wouldn't even have really understood what that meant). The problem is... the fact that at some point you should become at least vaguely self-aware.

[J. J.]

I think Americans generally don't realise how low their costs of living are, when compared to comparable nations.

Yes, but unless one owns a mansion, several yachts, at least three second homes, and has a luxury car (and trust funds!) for every member of their family, then one cannot seriously considered to be rich. One would merely be... an ordinary American living an ordinary American life.

Probably sarcasm on your part, but you are largely correct.

There are a number of factors when you look at that income, including how long the earner has been in his profession and what his profession is.

A 25 year old getting $250,000/year from grandmama's trust fund is probably rich.

A 50 year old attorney who started practicing 25 years ago, has an office and a secretary that he pays for, and works 40 hours a week to gross $250,000 probably isn't "rich."

Just assigning a money cutoff really doesn't define rich.

[All Along The Watchtower]

I think Americans generally don't realise how low their costs of living are, when compared to comparable nations.

Yes, but unless one owns a mansion, several yachts, at least three second homes, and has a luxury car (and trust funds!) for every member of their family, then one cannot seriously considered to be rich. One would merely be... an ordinary American living an ordinary American life.

Probably sarcasm on your part, but you are largely correct.

There are a number of factors when you look at that income, including how long the earner has been in his profession and what his profession is.

A 25 year old getting $250,000/year from grandmama's trust fund is probably rich.

A 50 year old attorney who started practicing 25 years ago, has an office and a secretary that he pays for, and works 40 hours a week to gross $250,000 probably isn't "rich."

Just assigning a money cutoff really doesn't define rich.

You're missing his point (and the point of many in this thread).

There is no real "cutoff", but $250,000/year is absolutely rich by..well, almost anyone's relative standard of living.

The median income for a family in America is around $40k-$50k...1/5 your supposedly middle-class attorney.'s income.

[Person Man]

We're doing the class thing again.

My .02c is that it doesn't really matter where you live. If you have trouble making ends meet on a very high income, you are probably very progidal or live in an exclusive area. Living in a big downtown area is to be considered a luxury and privilege in itself.. I mean, if you make $250,000 in an area where reasonable housing starts at $800,000 or a million dollars, shouldn't you consider moving to the 'burbs or at least understand that you are paying your $4000-6000 a month rent for a reason? Just because you can barely afford the best of everything doesn't mean you can't or aren't rich for that matter.

The way I see it, $250,000 a year can get you 40 acres with a regular ranch home in the hills or the biggest house (5000-7500 sqft in a modest midsize town) in town in a place like Fargo or Lakeland or a 1 bedroom condo in Manhattan or South Beach (actually you can do somewhat better in at least South Beach)...but you will still be able to afford your 1500 a month Maseratti 4.2 Coupe, the $900 a month Cadillac Escalade (Masseratis are a bitch to repair, you only take them clubbing, right?), your $1400 boat payment on your 40 foot Criss Craft, your 3000 a month retirement fund to gamble on your boss (if you have one) and still be able to save a couple of a thousand a month for your annual trip to Ibiza or Shangrala.

[Lief 🗽]

A 50 year old attorney who started practicing 25 years ago, has an office and a secretary that he pays for, and works 40 hours a week to gross $250,000 probably isn't "rich."

Yes, he is most definitely rich. A gross income of $250,000 working only 40 hours a week isn't rich? What are you smoking?

[Person Man]

I think he has to say that he has the give the 29 year old secretary he's cheating on his wife with probably gets 40 a year, the office is probably 1500 a month and the overhead is probably a couple of thousand (utilities, data bases, search engine subscriptions)....so that puts the office's overhead at like 9 Gs a month. That leaves the guy with 11 grand a month. That's definitely puts you in the top decile, but that isn't rich. That's actually about average for a person in the burbs in that situation. That's about 130 a year.

In a small town, the guy can probably pay his secretary about 25 or 30 a year and about half on the rent of mortgage. He will probably gross about 150 instead...somehow he'll pull in about 60 to 80 grand on himself.

[J. J.]

I think Americans generally don't realise how low their costs of living are, when compared to comparable nations.

Yes, but unless one owns a mansion, several yachts, at least three second homes, and has a luxury car (and trust funds!) for every member of their family, then one cannot seriously considered to be rich. One would merely be... an ordinary American living an ordinary American life.

Probably sarcasm on your part, but you are largely correct.

There are a number of factors when you look at that income, including how long the earner has been in his profession and what his profession is.

A 25 year old getting $250,000/year from grandmama's trust fund is probably rich.

A 50 year old attorney who started practicing 25 years ago, has an office and a secretary that he pays for, and works 40 hours a week to gross $250,000 probably isn't "rich."

Just assigning a money cutoff really doesn't define rich.

You're missing his point (and the point of many in this thread).

There is no real "cutoff", but $250,000/year is absolutely rich by..well, almost anyone's relative standard of living.

The median income for a family in America is around $40k-$50k...1/5 your supposedly middle-class attorney.'s income.

It is not "absolutely rich," which is the point I am making.  A lot of circumstances can change that.

Yes, he is most definitely rich. A gross income of $250,000 working only 40 hours a week isn't rich? What are you smoking?

Case in point, the guy has been practicing for 25 years and has worked up to making $250,000.  He was leveraged to pay for college and law school and didn't start out making $250 K.  He had to pay off his debts, his modest home, maybe send a kid to college.  Finally, he has a good yearly salary, but has to take out office expenses, which might be $75,000. 

He's well off, but he's not in yacht, mansion, 3 second home category.

[Link]

That leaves the guy with 11 grand a month. That's definitely puts you in the top decile, but that isn't rich.

*News Flash*

Top Decile=Rich

[Link]

Case in point, the guy has been practicing for 25 years and has worked up to making $250,000.  He was leveraged to pay for college and law school and didn't start out making $250 K.  He had to pay off his debts, his modest home, maybe send a kid to college.  Finally, he has a good yearly salary, but has to take out office expenses, which might be $75,000.  

He's well off, but he's not in yacht, mansion, 3 second home category.

Well kemosabe maybe the guy should have hired an accountant and his taxable income wouldn't be $250,000.   There is a concept in the business world called expenses.  You deduct them from your top line number and get your actual taxable income.  I don't see why we should change the tax code to accommodate ineptitude and stupidity.

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

Anything over $100,000 is rich.  Where I come from, anything over $75,000 is darn close to rich.

While the costs of property, housing, and to some extent food vary from place to place, the cost of vehicles, entertainment, discretionary items, travel, etc. are the same regardless of where you live in the U.S.

[Sbane]

Mockery aside, I suppose it is normal to consider your own circumstances normal... when you're a child. So I grew up in a small house (actually an end terrace), but never thought of it as a 'small house', and in a low income household, but would never have assumed that (and wouldn't even have really understood what that meant). The problem is... the fact that at some point you should become at least vaguely self-aware.

Ok, let's get a little self aware. First of all I would ask you what your definition of rich is. Top 5% of household income? Top 10-20%? I would put the cutoff at about 5%.

Look, I found an awesome link! http://pubdb3.census.gov/macro/032007/hhinc/new06_000.htm Time to get self aware!

According to this, if a HOUSEHOLD (so that would include your single guy who just got into wall street, as well as the family with 3 teenagers with the parents nearing 50) earns 150,000 they are in the 93.96th percentile. A little above 100k won't you say? If we were talking about just families it would be higher. And of course cost of living differences and blah blah blah. So we can safely say a single person making above 150k and about 180-200k for a family is rich. Are we all self aware yet?

A rich person isn't the normal guy who struggles through life. He's not at the median income. Who knew?

[Napoleon]

The cost of living might be a bit "unfair", but there are certain cultural, economic, social premiums and amenities that come with those desirable areas that those that live elsewhere do not. Family friend whose a Dermatologist operates two practices. One in Manhatten and one in Fresno, while he could easily afford a mansion in Fresno (he actually makes more money in Fresno) there is something to having the UN walking distance or tons of fine dining options or Broadway shows or Wall Street.

Exactly. There are reasons as to why a location is more expensive than another.

[courts]

http://146.142.4.24/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=250%2C000&year1=2011&year2=1951

$250,000 in 2011 dollars would be a little over $28,000 in 1951 dollars (even just going by CPI). Food for thought there.

[Sbane]

http://146.142.4.24/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=250%2C000&year1=2011&year2=1951

$250,000 in 2011 dollars would be a little over $28,000 in 1951 dollars (even just going by CPI). Food for thought there.

And adjusting for inflation, since the study was done in 2003 dollars, the 150k has become 184k. So rich is from about 200-250k adjusting for family status and location. Sounds about right to me!

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Ok, let's get a little self aware.

Always a good idea.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I'm not really sure what that has to do with self-awareness? But I would say... I don't know... maybe around £75,000 a year or so? That's about four times more than my Dad makes in a good year, which seems like a good measurement from the point of view of self-awareness (it's also something ten times more than I'm on, but I won't use that as a measurement). I don't think in dollars so I can't properly translate (especially given that exchange rate stuff can be misleading) but I think that's a very rough equivalent of points north of $100,000 or so (obviously apologies if that's wrong).

I also like the child logic involved; four times more than my Dad. Haha.

[Sbane]

The way I see it, $250,000 a year can get you 40 acres with a regular ranch home in the hills or the biggest house (5000-7500 sqft in a modest midsize town) in town in a place like Fargo or Lakeland or a 1 bedroom condo in Manhattan or South Beach (actually you can do somewhat better in at least South Beach)...but you will still be able to afford your 1500 a month Maseratti 4.2 Coupe, the $900 a month Cadillac Escalade (Masseratis are a bitch to repair, you only take them clubbing, right?), your $1400 boat payment on your 40 foot Criss Craft, your 3000 a month retirement fund to gamble on your boss (if you have one) and still be able to save a couple of a thousand a month for your annual trip to Ibiza or Shangrala.

Amusing.

[Sbane]

Ok, let's get a little self aware.

Always a good idea.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I'm not really sure what that has to do with self-awareness? But I would say... I don't know... maybe around £75,000 a year or so? That's about four times more than my Dad makes in a good year, which seems like a good measurement from the point of view of self-awareness (it's also something ten times more than I'm on, but I won't use that as a measurement). I don't think in dollars so I can't properly translate (especially given that exchange rate stuff can be misleading) but I think that's a very rough equivalent of points north of $100,000 or so (obviously apologies if that's wrong).

I also like the child logic involved; four times more than my Dad. Haha.

So you think a middle class family that is well off is rich. Fair enough.

Maybe you need to get a little self aware and meet some actual rich people instead of just assuming anyone doing 4 times better than you is rich. You know people who buy a porsche one year and a cadillac the next. And Ipads for all! I guess they are in the super, duper duper rich category. And they don't do it on a 150k salary.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

So you think a middle class family that is well off is rich. Fair enough.

See, from a British point of view nothing in that sentence comes across as even vaguely sarcastic or absurdist. Anyways, there's a difference between 'well off' and 'rich'?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Relax; I'm not going to send you to a collective farm or anything.

[Sbane]

Indeed it is a difference in definitions. No, I don't think someone who leads a comfortable lifestyle is rich. To me it means you can do the things listed in Angry Weasel's post.

Oh, and I won't mind working on a collective farm for a while. It would just fail soon enough anyways.

[Ebowed]

Maybe you need to get a little self aware and meet some actual rich people instead of just assuming anyone doing 4 times better than you is rich.

Or you could get a little self aware and go to a country where the sorts of luxuries that you are accustomed to aren't even thought about.

[phk]

$250k salary isn't rich. Just a highly paid worker.

[J. J.]

Case in point, the guy has been practicing for 25 years and has worked up to making $250,000.  He was leveraged to pay for college and law school and didn't start out making $250 K.  He had to pay off his debts, his modest home, maybe send a kid to college.  Finally, he has a good yearly salary, but has to take out office expenses, which might be $75,000.  

He's well off, but he's not in yacht, mansion, 3 second home category.

Well kemosabe maybe the guy should have hired an accountant and his taxable income wouldn't be $250,000.   There is a concept in the business world called expenses.  You deduct them from your top line number and get your actual taxable income.  I don't see why we should change the tax code to accommodate ineptitude and stupidity.

No, but we shouldn't say the guy is making $250,000 per year either.

I showed two examples.  The lawyer who is 50 and just grossed $250 K and the 25 year old whose got the first payment of $250 K from his trust fund.

We are not saying here someone who netted $250,000.  We're saying someone who earns it.

[Insula Dei]

$250,000 a year is rich. Or I am a part of one of the most miserable sections of the Lumpenproletariat. Maybe Americans are all just a lot richer than Europeans, but I somewhat doubt that.

[Sbane]

Maybe you need to get a little self aware and meet some actual rich people instead of just assuming anyone doing 4 times better than you is rich.

Or you could get a little self aware and go to a country where the sorts of luxuries that you are accustomed to aren't even thought about.

First of all I am accustomed to none of that sh**t. I do know people who are though. You know, actual rich people.

And maybe you should go visit a country where these luxuries are not thought of. I don't think you have been. As for me....

[opebo]

$250k salary isn't rich. Just a highly paid worker.

That is a very reasonable structural definition that shows the observational astuteness of a Marxist.  Are you one, phk?

That said, there would be no harm in destroying this class of 'house n***o' along with massah.  Just pile them in the ditch, there's room.  Or, sorry, maybe we're just on this subject in reference to tax rates?