"I am that I am."

[All Along The Watchtower]

When Moses asks God (who, the story goes, appears to him in the form of a Burning Bush)  "Who are you?", God's reply is :

"I am that I am."

Is God being deliberately tautological here? Is God confused about the distinction between subject and object in sentences? Was the translation really messed up?

Or maybe, God is the only one capable of defining God, so God is self-defining?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

i think God is saying he doesn't need a voucher, he can vouch for himself...which, to some on this board would seem to invoke circular logic

[anvi]

Isn't the phrase in Hebrew, "ehye asher ehye" derived from an imperfect, and not present, form of the verb "hayah," so it should be rendered something more like "will be who I will be"?  Also, the nominalized form of God's name that comes from this ("YHWH") is often connected with the phrase: "the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Joseph."  The self-identifying description seems to indicate two things, namely that it is this God, not any of the other purported gods, that is the source of being, the source of the world, now and forever, and that, just as YHWH was the God who established the covenant with the Patriarchs, he "will be" the God who keeps and fulfills the covenant in the future.

[Peeperkorn]

When Moses asks God (who, the story goes, appears to him in the form of a Burning Bush)  "Who are you?", God's reply is :

"I am that I am."

Is God being deliberately tautological here? Is God confused about the distinction between subject and object in sentences? Was the translation really messed up?

Or maybe, God is the only one capable of defining God, so God is self-defining?

Hebrews were not very good in things like Logic or Linguistics.

In fact, they were a tribe of barbarians nomads whose theology "strangely" had many things in common with Egyptian and other Middle-Eastern religions.

It's the bBible, not an encyclopedia.

[Peeperkorn]

i think God is saying he doesn't need a voucher, he can vouch for himself...

What about Jesus?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

i think God is saying he doesn't need a voucher, he can vouch for himself...

What about Jesus?

he basically made the same argument:

John 8:13 The Pharisees challenged him, “Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid.”

 14 Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. 15 You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. 16 But if I do judge, my decisions are true, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. 17 In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is true. 18 I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.”

---

"I know where I came from and where I am going." is about the same as "I am that I am"

[Peeperkorn]

i think God is saying he doesn't need a voucher, he can vouch for himself...

What about Jesus?

he basically made the same argument:

John 8:13 The Pharisees challenged him, “Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid.”

 14 Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. 15 You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. 16 But if I do judge, my decisions are true, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. 17 In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is true. 18 I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.”

---

"I know where I came from and where I am going." is about the same as "I am that I am"

Well, for me it's not the same, but my English is ****.

Anyway, so Jesus=God?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

"I know where I came from and where I am going." is about the same as "I am that I am"

Well, for me it's not the same, but my English is ****.

don't get me wrong, they don't equate at face value, but in context they are saying the same thing, "I am that I am" (i.e. "I vouch for myself") was the answer God gave Moses' question regarding who could Moses claim was vouching for Moses' testimony....and Jesus when questioned about who was vouching for him, basically said he could vouch for himself because
"I know where I came from and where I am going."

which, again, is circular logic for most non-believers on this board who demand that God have a voucher

---

Anyway, so Jesus=God?

yes

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

When Moses asks God (who, the story goes, appears to him in the form of a Burning Bush)  "Who are you?", God's reply is :

"I am that I am."

that's a good summation, but not exactly the way it is recorded:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

notice, also, Jesus used the same identity:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

This episode is pretty awesome, here is my paraphrase:

Moses:  You’re sending me to Egypt to free the Israelites?  Yo, what kind of dude do you think me is?

God:  Relax, I gots your back.

Moses:  Well, what if I tell the brothas you gots my back, but they ask who you is?

God: I am who I am…so go chill them brothas out and say, ‘I am has sent me to you.’

[Insula Dei]

Isn't the phrase in Hebrew, "ehye asher ehye" derived from an imperfect, and not present, form of the verb "hayah," so it should be rendered something more like "will be who I will be"?  Also, the nominalized form of God's name that comes from this ("YHWH") is often connected with the phrase: "the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Joseph."  The self-identifying description seems to indicate two things, namely that it is this God, not any of the other purported gods, that is the source of being, the source of the world, now and forever, and that, just as YHWH was the God who established the covenant with the Patriarchs, he "will be" the God who keeps and fulfills the covenant in the future.

A better translation at any rate is 'I am that is', or so I've always thought.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

A better translation at any rate is 'I am that is', or so I've always thought.

or simply, "I be is"  lol

[Yelnoc]

When Moses asks God (who, the story goes, appears to him in the form of a Burning Bush)  "Who are you?", God's reply is :

"I am that I am."

Is God being deliberately tautological here? Is God confused about the distinction between subject and object in sentences? Was the translation really messed up?

Or maybe, God is the only one capable of defining God, so God is self-defining?

Hebrews were not very good in things like Logic or Linguistics.

In fact, they were a tribe of barbarians nomads whose theology "strangely" had many things in common with Egyptian and other Middle-Eastern religions.

It's the bBible, not an encyclopedia.

Actually, Judaism is very distinct from Egyptian and other ancient near-east religions.  Monotheism!

And that jab about Hebrews not being very good about logic or linguistics is rather stupid.  Jews[1] make up about 1/5th of all Nobel Prize recipients.

[1] Yes, not all descendants of the Hebrews are Jews, but they are the predominant ethnicity that identify with the ancient Hebrews.

[Insula Dei]

The way certain people (not you Yelnoc, but I've seen popular newspapers do it) point to the high number of Jewish Nobel Prize recipients is so painfully reminiscent of classical anti-Semitism.

[Peeperkorn]

In Uruguay we got lot of jews and in a 75% they're agnostic.

Please, don't mess ethnicity with religion.

[The Mikado]

Not to mention that the ancient Israelites weren't Jews (Jews being by definition descended from the tribe of Judah and the remnants of the Southern Kingdom while most of the Israelites were members of the other tribes)

[Associate Justice PiT]

When Moses asks God (who, the story goes, appears to him in the form of a Burning Bush)  "Who are you?", God's reply is :

"I am that I am."

Is God being deliberately tautological here? Is God confused about the distinction between subject and object in sentences? Was the translation really messed up?

Or maybe, God is the only one capable of defining God, so God is self-defining?

Hebrews were not very good in things like Logic or Linguistics.

In fact, they were a tribe of barbarians nomads whose theology "strangely" had many things in common with Egyptian and other Middle-Eastern religions.

It's the bBible, not an encyclopedia.

Actually, Judaism is very distinct from Egyptian and other ancient near-east religions.  Monotheism!

And that jab about Hebrews not being very good about logic or linguistics is rather stupid.  Jews[1] make up about 1/5th of all Nobel Prize recipients.

[1] Yes, not all descendants of the Hebrews are Jews, but they are the predominant ethnicity that identify with the ancient Hebrews.

     I'm guessing that by similarities he means the parallels with other ancient myths, such as the particulars of the creation story (both creation stories in Genesis, actually) & the flood story.