Argentina 2011: Election day Sunday 23th october (POST ELECTION)
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  Argentina 2011: Election day Sunday 23th october (POST ELECTION)
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Author Topic: Argentina 2011: Election day Sunday 23th october (POST ELECTION)  (Read 21366 times)
Teddy (IDS Legislator)
nickjbor
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« Reply #150 on: October 23, 2011, 08:37:18 PM »

Which one is the incumbent?
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Edu
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« Reply #151 on: October 23, 2011, 08:44:39 PM »

Binner now does seem to have a constant very slightly drop in his percentage, but I don''t see how he can lose the 2nd position. He's still ahead of Alfonsín in the province of BA and in the city of BA, and he's not doing that much worse than Alfonsin in the other provinces.


The incumbent president Huh
Cristina Kirchner.
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RodPresident
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« Reply #152 on: October 23, 2011, 08:52:07 PM »

Menem isn't running for Frente de la Victoria, but for Frente Popular Riojano, although supporting Cristina. FUERZA MOROCHA!
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Edu
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« Reply #153 on: October 23, 2011, 09:03:00 PM »

I'm also rooting for the socialists to finish 2nd in the senatorial election in the province of BA so they can clinch 1 senate seat there.
Currently José Scioli (governor Daniel Scioli's brother) is 2nd, running under the banner of the UCR-de narvaez alliance, but he's only ahead by 4.000 votes (0,21%).
Obviously the 2 candidates for senator from the FPV (which include the combative Anibal Fernandez who has been in more cabinet posts in Duhalde and Kirchner's administration than I can count) are running far ahead, winning by a 45%+ margin.

Menem isn't running for Frente de la Victoria, but for Frente Popular Riojano, although supporting Cristina. FUERZA MOROCHA!

You are right, there is an official FPV candidate and a kirchnerist supported candidate (Menem). Something that happens frequently, especially in these ultra-peronist backwater provinces. No offense to la Rioja Tongue
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Edu
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« Reply #154 on: October 23, 2011, 09:25:59 PM »
« Edited: October 23, 2011, 09:27:37 PM by Edu »

Jorge Macri apparently is beating Enrique garcía by 5% or so. Guess that means he's the new Mayor of Vicente Lopez (population 275.000).
Gustavo Posse was also reelected in nearby San Isidro (population 291.000).

There are probably some other opposition mayors winning outside of the metropolitan area (the province is friggin huge, though most people are concentrated in the metropolitan area of the City of BA). The UCR usually does well in those districts that are big and unpopulated.

The rest of the mayors in the province are as far as I know all (or most of them at least) kirchnerist allies.
Though one has to rememeber that the mayors in the metropolitan area are usually quasi-mobsters that have been there for 10, 15, 20 years or so and go along with every government regardless of ideology and sometimes of party.
Both the president and the governor needs them and they need the government to send them money. Clientelism is huge in the area and the mayors control a large segment of the population, which means that if you antagonize them they can turn part of the country upside down. Which is one reason why they seldom have serious challenges for office.


At this point I would be surprised if Binner doesn't win the province of Santa Fe.
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Edu
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« Reply #155 on: October 23, 2011, 09:38:39 PM »

Jorge Busti in Entre Rios is 3rd in the gubernatorial election with 17% of the vote, lol, I see Duhalde made everyone else allied with him collapse too Tongue

At this rate Binner will probably end up with close to 18% of the vote and Alfonsin close to 10,5%-11%
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Edu
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« Reply #156 on: October 23, 2011, 10:07:47 PM »
« Edited: October 23, 2011, 10:14:23 PM by Edu »

FPV's Perez is beating former governor Roberto Iglesias by 10 points in Mendoza. It's still early reporting there but it doesn't seem iglesias can make a comeback.

Cristina made a great election in the City of Buenos Aires, becoming the first official peronist since Juan Domingo Peron himself in 1973 to carry the City. She is getting around 35%
Hilariously enough, she isn't the peronist who got more votes in the City since 1973. That award goes to Carlos Menem, who in 1989 got 36,4%, who still lost the election here since Eduardo Angeloz, the UCR candidate got almost 49%.
However, those were the times where we basically had a two party system.

I'm trying to find out what Peron got here in 1973.

EDIT: Well, all that I could find from a quick search was that he won between 40% and 50%. Tomorrow I'll keep looking for the exact number.

I also obviously missed my calculations since Cristina has gotten even a wider advantage against Binner in the province of Santa Fe. I guess the real election map is going to be almost a carbon copy of the primary map.
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Edu
Ufokart
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« Reply #157 on: October 24, 2011, 01:18:07 AM »

Well, 97% reporting and it will probably stay that way for a while.

Cristina Kirchner: 53,75%
Hermes Binner: 16,98%
Ricardo Alfonsín: 11,12%
Alberto Rodriguez Saa: 8,04%
Eduardo Duhalde: 5,93%
Jorge Altamira: 2,32%
Elisa Carrio: 1,85%

I'm going to sleep. Tomorrow I'll post some thoughts, maps and other stuff Smiley
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big bad fab
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« Reply #158 on: October 24, 2011, 03:17:50 AM »

Disappointing as it wasn't very suspenseful (well, even Buenos Aires city...) Tongue
But opinion polls were really good this time, weren't they ?
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Edu
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« Reply #159 on: October 24, 2011, 06:56:51 AM »

Disappointing as it wasn't very suspenseful (well, even Buenos Aires city...) Tongue
But opinion polls were really good this time, weren't they ?

Yeah, since the primary.
Looking at the october polls, one could say they slightly overestimated Duhalde and Rodriguez saa and slightly underestimated Cristina, Binner and Alfonsín. Though I suppose most of the results were within the margin of error.

What the polls predicted that important and a lot of people even thought about it right after the primary was that Binner was going up and Duhalde was collapsing.
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Hash
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« Reply #160 on: October 24, 2011, 08:34:44 AM »

Why did Duhalde collapse so badly?
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Teddy (IDS Legislator)
nickjbor
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« Reply #161 on: October 24, 2011, 10:46:33 AM »

Long-Story-Short then is a re-election for the President?
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Niemeyerite
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« Reply #162 on: October 24, 2011, 02:32:43 PM »

Nice results. CFK wins and Binner has a respectable %.
everybody in the left should be happy Smiley
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Edu
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« Reply #163 on: October 24, 2011, 11:13:16 PM »

We have results of the legislative elections and to the disgust of people who don't like Kirchner, I'm sorry to tell you that the FPV+allies have gotten a majority in both chambers.

By the way, the Frente Amplio Progresista is Binner's coalition but I'm to immature to call them FAP Grin
In the lower house (house of deputies) the new congress will be like this:

FPV + Official allies = 135 seats
UCR = 42 seats
"Federal Peronism" = 27 seats
Frente Amplio Progresista = 17 seats
PRO = 10 seats
Civic Coalition = 7 seats
Others, including provincial parties = 19 seats

You get the majority of the chamber with 129.
The FPV alone has 116 seats, but there are 19 official allies who are basically the FPV with another name, so that's why they are grouped together. Cristina will probably have a larger working majority because in the category of Federal Peronism you have people like Felipe Sola, who has voiced support in the recent months, despite being in opposition in 2009. The same thing with the provincial parties.
Communists were close to getting at least 1 legislator but failed.
If it weren't because the Civic Coalition (Carrio's party) did well in 2009, they would almost be completely wiped out right now. In this election they only won 1 legislator (Patricia Bullrich, probably the most known face of the party after Carrio).


In the senate:

FPV + allies = 38 seats
UCR = 17 seats
"Federal Peronism" = 10 seats
FAP Tongue = 3 seats
Civic Coalition = 1 seat
Others = 3 seats

You get the majority with 37 seats (or in Cristina's case 36, because of the VP)


Be aware that these are still provisional results and some sources give different numbers. There are still some recounts to be made to determine how many seats will go to each party in the close districts and there may also be a different criteria for grouping the parties (for instance, one source might count Carlos Menem in the FPV + allies category and another one could place him in the Federal Peronism category).
The final results will probably be available in a few days, but this is a good sketch of how the congress will look in December.



Duhalde has always been sort of unpopular nationally, even back in the days when he was vice president and then governor of the Province of Benos Aires. Incumbents in the province of BA usually have a strong advantage because they are the ones that control the money for the metropolitan area mayors and they provide the people. But even still, Duhalde managed to lose the province against De la Rua in 99 while running for president.
The truth is that after the 2001 crash, the economy started it's recovery in 2002 under Duhalde and by May 2003 (when Kirchner was sworn in) the country was pretty stable and growing, so the guy came in with awful approvals in early 2002, but left with pretty decent ones.

Of course the country continued growing under Kirchner and Duhalde started losing power (remember that Kirchner was supposed to be Duhalde's puppet), so by 2004 or 2005 Duhalde became the opposition and the contrast was not good. on one hand a growing country with a popular Kirchner and on the other hand a guy who criticized everything they did. Slowly, people started remembering why they hated him so much in the 90's.

Nowadays with a fractured opposition, people who wanted to vote against Kirchner had to choose one. People here in the city for instance were convinced that because of his experience and because he was a former governor of the province of BA, Duhalde was favored. It was not uncommon to hear people here talking about how Duhalde was going to beat Cristina (I even heard talk like that as late as in June). So, a lot of people supported him in the city and the province of BA. Opposition to Cristina was the only possible explanation of why someone like him could win in neighbourhoods like Recoleta, Belgrano and Palermo. He turned out to be a big disappointment winning just 12% of the vote and finishing 3rd nationally and people again started to remember how much they hated him, so it was logical that his support would plummet, now that the people realised he was not the right candidate, and this was predicted even the same day the primaries took place.

In one of the last polls before the election, the only candidates who had a positive approval rating were Cristina and Binner, all the other were negative. Duhalde had about 20% favorable and something like a 75% unfavorable rating. The only one worse was Carrio.

Long-Story-Short then is a re-election for the President?

I'm starting to believe you are pulling my leg Tongue




Polls before the election also showed some bizarre info on how the candidate votes break down.

For instance, Socialist Hermes Binner biggest supporters are the middle class and the upper Middle class while he does like crap among the poor.
UCR's Ricardo Alfonsin best group is old people while his worst is in the 18-29 age group, which I guess it makes sense
Duhalde does the worst among young people.
Hilariously, communist Jorge Altamira does his best among the poor and the upper middle class, lol.
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redcommander
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« Reply #164 on: October 25, 2011, 12:21:50 AM »

Why is Carrio so unpopular?
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #165 on: October 25, 2011, 09:26:17 AM »

Nice results. CFK wins and Binner has a respectable %.
everybody in the left should be happy Smiley
I will be, if the two persons are reversed. Grin
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redcommander
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« Reply #166 on: October 26, 2011, 01:48:45 AM »

Nice results. CFK wins and Binner has a respectable %.
everybody in the left should be happy Smiley
I will be, if the two persons are reversed. Grin

Why? CFK seems to be much more left wing than Binner. She has gone after big business very strongly, and has attacked the Argentinian media for its monopoly ownership. Binner is actually slightly more moderate than her, and received heavy support from the middle and upper classes. 
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big bad fab
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« Reply #167 on: October 26, 2011, 01:55:31 AM »

I guess there will be many breakaways in these tiny absolute majorities in the 2 chambers, but, still, wow, absolute majorities everywhere...
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