Quebec General Election 2012 (4th September)

[2952-0-0]

How many francophones are turned off by Marois' crassness? If I were Charest I'd be kissing her pictures; now all non-francophones and non-whites have an urge to vote for me.

[RogueBeaver]

How many francophones are turned off by Marois' crassness? If I were Charest I'd be kissing her pictures; now all non-francophones and non-whites have an urge to vote for me.

She backed off the language test crap once the outcry became too great but she's been language trolling ever since assuming the leadership 5 years ago. Appeasing the linguistic fanatics. And Charest's losing a chunk of non-Francos to Legault. Charest's boasting about his enforcement of the language laws while Legault wants even stricter enforcement- isn't like there's anyone defending Anglo rights among this gang.

[MaxQue]

isn't like there's anyone defending Anglo rights among this gang.

Obviously, defending the people who oppressed us for decades isn't a vote getter with French people.

[RogueBeaver]

This Legault-Marois debate is just as bad as the other 3 were. Shouting match and nothing new.

[RogueBeaver]

Huh? The CSQ won't endorse the PQ.

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/elections-quebec-2012/201208/22/01-4567319-la-csq-dit-nappuyer-aucun-parti-puis-denigre-le-parti-liberal-et-la-caq.php

Debate: another yawnworthy shouting match.

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/elections-quebec-2012/201208/22/01-4567331-legault-et-marois-pour-le-dernier-face-a-face.php

[MaxQue]

That's disgusting race-baiting.

[2952-0-0]

That's disgusting race-baiting.

What is?

[MaxQue]

That's disgusting race-baiting.

What is?

The previous post. Sure, I suppose than language-baiting is more accurate, but I doubt it's a word.

[2952-0-0]

That's disgusting race-baiting.

What is?

The previous post. Sure, I suppose than language-baiting is more accurate, but I doubt it's a word.

It was intended to mock Marois as being on par with oppressive dictators, not attacking anyone per se. Apologies if it was offensive.

[MaxQue]

That's disgusting race-baiting.

What is?

The previous post. Sure, I suppose than language-baiting is more accurate, but I doubt it's a word.

It was intended to mock Marois as being on par with oppressive dictators, not attacking anyone per se. Apologies if it was offensive.

Well, Marois takes her positions because they is a public for that.
In any case, despite the Anglo opposition to language laws, the Franco population overwhelmingly support them.

[canadian1]

That's disgusting race-baiting.

What is?

The previous post. Sure, I suppose than language-baiting is more accurate, but I doubt it's a word.

It was intended to mock Marois as being on par with oppressive dictators, not attacking anyone per se. Apologies if it was offensive.

Well, Marois takes her positions because they is a public for that.
In any case, despite the Anglo opposition to language laws, the Franco population overwhelmingly support them.

Oh my! I wonder why that might be!

[MaxQue]

That's disgusting race-baiting.

What is?

The previous post. Sure, I suppose than language-baiting is more accurate, but I doubt it's a word.

It was intended to mock Marois as being on par with oppressive dictators, not attacking anyone per se. Apologies if it was offensive.

Well, Marois takes her positions because they is a public for that.
In any case, despite the Anglo opposition to language laws, the Franco population overwhelmingly support them.

Oh my! I wonder why that might be!

Historical reasons. The Anglophone minority ruled the economy of Québec until the 60's (for example, it was very hard to get a loan if you were French, the access to the high-ranking positions in businesses was blocked because they didn't talked English, many businesses were working in English only and customers were insulted if they talked French and were refused to be served....). Let's let than the Anglo minority abused their power and than this is the coilback.

[toaster]

It is quite odd.  The government should by no means be allowed to tell a women what to do with her body in the case of abortion, but they sure as hell should be allowed to tell me what language to speak in, and how to raise my children in terms of what school I should be allowed to put them in.  It's very fascinating.

[Hatman 🍁]

I disagree; I think the government should be able to tell you what school to send your children. It's important for them to be educated the same way as everyone else so that they have the same opportunities. Exceptions are for special needs students of course.

[canadian1]

That's disgusting race-baiting.

What is?

The previous post. Sure, I suppose than language-baiting is more accurate, but I doubt it's a word.

It was intended to mock Marois as being on par with oppressive dictators, not attacking anyone per se. Apologies if it was offensive.

Well, Marois takes her positions because they is a public for that.
In any case, despite the Anglo opposition to language laws, the Franco population overwhelmingly support them.

Oh my! I wonder why that might be!

Historical reasons. The Anglophone minority ruled the economy of Québec until the 60's (for example, it was very hard to get a loan if you were French, the access to the high-ranking positions in businesses was blocked because they didn't talked English, many businesses were working in English only and customers were insulted if they talked French and were refused to be served....). Let's let than the Anglo minority abused their power and than this is the coilback.

That was sarcasm. It seems obvious to me that Francophones would support language laws that are meant to benefit only them.

Do you really think "coilback" is a legitimate justification for laws that, whatever their intended purposes, impose a significant burden on minorities?

[MaxQue]

That's disgusting race-baiting.

What is?

The previous post. Sure, I suppose than language-baiting is more accurate, but I doubt it's a word.

It was intended to mock Marois as being on par with oppressive dictators, not attacking anyone per se. Apologies if it was offensive.

Well, Marois takes her positions because they is a public for that.
In any case, despite the Anglo opposition to language laws, the Franco population overwhelmingly support them.

Oh my! I wonder why that might be!

Historical reasons. The Anglophone minority ruled the economy of Québec until the 60's (for example, it was very hard to get a loan if you were French, the access to the high-ranking positions in businesses was blocked because they didn't talked English, many businesses were working in English only and customers were insulted if they talked French and were refused to be served....). Let's let than the Anglo minority abused their power and than this is the coilback.

That was sarcasm. It seems obvious to me that Francophones would support language laws that are meant to benefit only them.

Do you really think "coilback" is a legitimate justification for laws that, whatever their intended purposes, impose a significant burden on minorities?

There is no significant burden on minorities. Sure, it may require people to learn French, but honestly, it's logical to someone which immigrate in US to learn English. It's also logical for someone who immigrate in Quebec to learn French.

[BigSkyBob]

That's disgusting race-baiting.

What is?

The previous post. Sure, I suppose than language-baiting is more accurate, but I doubt it's a word.

It was intended to mock Marois as being on par with oppressive dictators, not attacking anyone per se. Apologies if it was offensive.

Well, Marois takes her positions because they is a public for that.
In any case, despite the Anglo opposition to language laws, the Franco population overwhelmingly support them.

Oh my! I wonder why that might be!

Historical reasons. The Anglophone minority ruled the economy of Québec until the 60's (for example, it was very hard to get a loan if you were French, the access to the high-ranking positions in businesses was blocked because they didn't talked English, many businesses were working in English only and customers were insulted if they talked French and were refused to be served....). Let's let than the Anglo minority abused their power and than this is the coilback.

That was sarcasm. It seems obvious to me that Francophones would support language laws that are meant to benefit only them.

Do you really think "coilback" is a legitimate justification for laws that, whatever their intended purposes, impose a significant burden on minorities?

There is no significant burden on minorities. Sure, it may require people to learn French, but honestly, it's logical to someone which immigrate in US to learn English. It's also logical for someone who immigrate in Quebec to learn French.

The problem with your formulation is that those folks immigrated to Canada. If I spoke neither French nor English, and, was admitted to Canada, I would strive to learn English before French. That would be equally true even if I initially settled in Quebec.

In Israel you have a country that has the forms of democracy, but, not the substance of democracy since religious minorities can only vote for candidates that support the "Jewish" nature of the state rather than candidates that advocate their full political and religious equality. Passing laws demanding candidates kowtow to the "French" nature of Quebec is equally odious.

The folks in Quebec have every right to declare their independence from Canada. So far, they have failed to take that decision. Until they do, they are part of Canada, and, they, like the rest of Canada, share a duty to try to make bilingualism work. One set of highly provincial language laws in one Province, and, another inclusive language law for everyone else isn't going to go over well in the rest Canada, especially English-speaking Canada.

[MaxQue]

Well, no. Only New Brunswick is a bilingual province. All other provinces have only English as official language. While Canada is bilingual, the provinces are not.

[Хahar 🤔]

The problem with your formulation is that those folks immigrated to Canada. If I spoke neither French nor English, and, was admitted to Canada, I would strive to learn English before French. That would be equally true even if I initially settled in Quebec.

This is eminently ridiculous. Canada is a bilingual nation. Immigrants to Quebec should be expected to learn French in the same way as immigrants to British Columbia should be expected to learn English.

[Poirot]

News for map lovers! Interactive map fom La Presse website showing 2008 results. You can show map with old ridings or the new map ridings.

If you want to see the province with the new ridings and results by voting division, you click Section de votes 2008 in Superficies à colorier. You can change and check if you are with 2008 boundaries or new ones with the bar Avec bordures de circonscription at the bottom of the menu. 

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/elections-quebec-2012/carte-interactive-des-elections-provinciales-2008/

[Hatman 🍁]

Wow, great find!

[Hatman 🍁]

Found 2 errors in the Chapleau riding where the Greens "won" massively while the Liberals got 1 or 0 votes in a safe Liberal ridings.

[Poirot]

Sherbrooke riding poll (August 20-23) has PQ Cardin 45%, Charest 33%, CAQ 10, QS 7, ON 3, PV 2.  

http://www.lapresse.ca/la-tribune/sherbrooke/201208/23/01-4567733-charest-peine-a-retrecir-lecart-dans-sherbrooke.php

I would like to see results without undecideds because I guess they will break more Charest's way. QS + ON at 10% is still a potential for PQ to rally more anti-Charest vote.

[Poirot]

Found 2 errors in the Chapleau riding where the Greens "won" massively while the Liberals got 1 or 0 votes in a safe Liberal ridings.

An error in data switiching Lib and Green I imagine. I hope the map is not full of mistakes.

[BigSkyBob]

The problem with your formulation is that those folks immigrated to Canada. If I spoke neither French nor English, and, was admitted to Canada, I would strive to learn English before French. That would be equally true even if I initially settled in Quebec.

This is eminently ridiculous. Canada is a bilingual nation. Immigrants to Quebec should be expected to learn French in the same way as immigrants to British Columbia should be expected to learn English.

Again, there is no such thing as "an immigrant to British Columbia." There are only immigrants to Canada. Any immigrant to any county ought to learn the local language. Since Canada is a bilingual nation, any immigrant to Canada ought to learn either English or French. I just happen to believe that learning English first has more utility to the immigrant, and is, thus, the rational choice.