Quebec General Election 2012 (4th September)

[BigSkyBob]

Well, no. Only New Brunswick is a bilingual province. All other provinces have only English as official language. While Canada is bilingual, the provinces are not.

Well, yes. Again, the folks in the rest of Canada aren't going to be happy having to live under forced bilingualism at the federal level when the Province of Quebec systematically strips the democratic rights of English-only speakers there. That is especially true when many of those the linguistic majority is trying to accommodate overtly reject the concept of a united Canada in favor of separatism.

I have no problem with Quebec choosing independence. But, the reality is that Quebec has repeatedly chosen to remain a part of Canada. At a certain point, it is appropriate to tell the separatists to either defecate or relinquish the stall.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Hey, it's like you're writing the PQ's talking points for them.

[Hatman 🍁]

Found 2 errors in the Chapleau riding where the Greens "won" massively while the Liberals got 1 or 0 votes in a safe Liberal ridings.

An error in data switiching Lib and Green I imagine. I hope the map is not full of mistakes.

It might not be La Presse's fault, but rather the fault of Elections Quebec. Once in a while you will see results from a poll that make no sense because someone somewhere a long the line switched the numbers. In this case, someone put the Liberal numbers in the green spot and vise-versa. I've seen it happen on the federal level too.  I remember watching the 2004 election, when Peter Mansbridge declared that the Marxist-Leninist Party was ahead in one of the Mississauga ridings due to a similar tabulation error.

[canadian1]

Found 2 errors in the Chapleau riding where the Greens "won" massively while the Liberals got 1 or 0 votes in a safe Liberal ridings.

An error in data switiching Lib and Green I imagine. I hope the map is not full of mistakes.

It might not be La Presse's fault, but rather the fault of Elections Quebec. Once in a while you will see results from a poll that make no sense because someone somewhere a long the line switched the numbers. In this case, someone put the Liberal numbers in the green spot and vise-versa. I've seen it happen on the federal level too.  I remember watching the 2004 election, when Peter Mansbridge declared that the Marxist-Leninist Party was ahead in one of the Mississauga ridings due to a similar tabulation error.

I remember that quite clearly!

[MaxQue]

Well, no. Only New Brunswick is a bilingual province. All other provinces have only English as official language. While Canada is bilingual, the provinces are not.

Well, yes. Again, the folks in the rest of Canada aren't going to be happy having to live under forced bilingualism at the federal level when the Province of Quebec systematically strips the democratic rights of English-only speakers there.

The rest of Canada is clearly not bilingual. Most of the English Canada is talking English only and its next to impossible to get any service or anything in French.
And no democratic right of non-French speakers is stripped. We even have most Quebec government forms in English, while some English provinces don't bother to translate their forms to French.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

The problem with your formulation is that those folks immigrated to Canada. If I spoke neither French nor English, and, was admitted to Canada, I would strive to learn English before French. That would be equally true even if I initially settled in Quebec.

This is eminently ridiculous. Canada is a bilingual nation. Immigrants to Quebec should be expected to learn French in the same way as immigrants to British Columbia should be expected to learn English.

Again, there is no such thing as "an immigrant to British Columbia." There are only immigrants to Canada. Any immigrant to any county ought to learn the local language. Since Canada is a bilingual nation, any immigrant to Canada ought to learn either English or French. I just happen to believe that learning English first has more utility to the immigrant, and is, thus, the rational choice.

Bob, what you have to understand is that Canada for the most part is supposed, under the terms of its own foundational laws, to actually take federalism seriously in the realm of language.

[RogueBeaver]

Marois unveils her fiscal platform.

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/elections-quebec-2012/201208/24/01-4568002-pauline-marois-devoile-son-cadre-financier.php

Legault: The Crown corporation heads might well get pink-slipped if I win.

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/elections-quebec-2012/201208/23/01-4567751-francois-legault-quand-on-veut-des-changements-on-sentoure-de-gens-forts.php

Charest interview.

http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/elections-2012/357620/titre

[Talleyrand]

How's it looking in Sherbrooke? Is Jean Charest pretty screwed? There have been two polls released showing him down double digits so I wanted to know if he's seriously in danger or if he could still pull it out.

[RogueBeaver]

TCTC now says he's down by 9. 2007 was a close call- so close that Radio-Canada mistakenly declared him defeated but he ultimately won on absentee/early votes. So don't jump to conclusions till the votes are counted. If defeated, it would be the first for an incumbent premier since 1976.

[MaxQue]

How's it looking in Sherbrooke? Is Jean Charest pretty screwed? There have been two polls released showing him down double digits so I wanted to know if he's seriously in danger or if he could still pull it out.

Let's say than Charest won't win by a big margin. If he wins, that will be quite close.

[Poirot]

The poll has a 4% margin of error so the gap could not be as big. The result before undecideds is 38% Cardin, 28% Charest. Charest could take a bigger share of the 13% of undecided / don't want to answer. He leads with older voters who tend to vote more so he could gain a few percentages there too.

[BigSkyBob]

Well, no. Only New Brunswick is a bilingual province. All other provinces have only English as official language. While Canada is bilingual, the provinces are not.

Well, yes. Again, the folks in the rest of Canada aren't going to be happy having to live under forced bilingualism at the federal level when the Province of Quebec systematically strips the democratic rights of English-only speakers there.

The rest of Canada is clearly not bilingual. Most of the English Canada is talking English only and its next to impossible to get any service or anything in French.
And no democratic right of non-French speakers is stripped.

The proposal, as I understand it, is to strip non-French speakers of the right to stand for office. Standing for office is clearly one of the fundamental democratic rights.

[MaxQue]

Well, no. Only New Brunswick is a bilingual province. All other provinces have only English as official language. While Canada is bilingual, the provinces are not.

Well, yes. Again, the folks in the rest of Canada aren't going to be happy having to live under forced bilingualism at the federal level when the Province of Quebec systematically strips the democratic rights of English-only speakers there.

The rest of Canada is clearly not bilingual. Most of the English Canada is talking English only and its next to impossible to get any service or anything in French.
And no democratic right of non-French speakers is stripped.

The proposal, as I understand it, is to strip non-French speakers of the right to stand for office. Standing for office is clearly one of the fundamental democratic rights.

Oh, I was talking of current laws. Well, that law is clearly unconstitutionnal and will be throw out by courts and PQ knows it.
It's the purpose. To make the Québec look like a victim of a terrible English court.

I don't agree with that proposal, neither with the idea of Quebec "citizenship".
But, yes, if Quebec ever become a country, a Quebec citizenship will be obviously created and talking French could clearly be a condition to be given it. It wouldn't be the first country with such law.

[MaxQue]

Heard on radio, the Léger-QMI poll.

PQ: 33
CAQ: 28
PLQ: 27

[Hatman 🍁]

Heard on radio, the Léger-QMI poll.

PQ: 33
CAQ: 28
PLQ: 27

lol. Where does that put the FR poll?

[Hash]

lol Forum

[RogueBeaver]

TCTC concludes that the odds of a PQ government are very high, just uncertain whether or not they'll cross the majority threshold.

They project PQ 64, PLQ 32, CAQ 27, QS 2. First time since 1970 that the second-place PV finisher does not form OO (then it was UN/PQ).

[RogueBeaver]

Per Twitter, Parizeau is supporting Aussant personally but the PQ at large.

CAQ tries to sell their platform.

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/elections-quebec-2012/201208/25/01-4568132-la-caq-veut-convaincre-les-quebecois-que-son-plan-est-realisable.php

Nuns' Island bridge has to be replaced. Duh.

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/regional/montreal/201208/24/01-4568091-le-pont-de-lile-des-soeurs-devra-etre-remplace-des-que-possible.php

Marois interview.

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/elections-quebec-2012/201208/24/01-4568074-entrevue-avec-pauline-marois-lhumilite-de-la-survivante.php

PQ wants higher taxes for the top bracket.

http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/elections-2012/357765/titre

PLQ could come third.

http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/elections-2012/357756/le-4-septembre-sera-t-il-un-jour-de-premiere

[後援会]

Good ol' PQ and other pure laine types. Reminding me everyday why despite how Montreal is probably the closest major city to me, I will probably never visit it.

[RogueBeaver]

Good ol' PQ and other pure laine types. Reminding me everyday why despite how Montreal is probably the closest major city to me, I will probably never visit it.

Politics aren't great but hey, we do have a nightlife to compensate.

[Poirot]

On his twitter account, Léger lists 13 ridings with three way races.

Argenteuil, Laporte, Maskinongé, Nicolet-Bécancour, Soulanges, Trois-Rivières

Laval: Fabre, Laval-des-Rapides, Mille-Iles, Vimont
Quebec city: Jean-Lesage, Jean-Talon, Louis-Hébert

[DL]

It's not clear to me if Leger actually conducted riding polls in those seats or if is basing that on extrapolations of his poll results by sites like too close to call or 308.

[Holmes]

Good ol' PQ and other pure laine types. Reminding me everyday why despite how Montreal is probably the closest major city to me, I will probably never visit it.

Why would you never visit somewhere because of politics? Shallow.

[Poirot]

It's not clear to me if Leger actually conducted riding polls in those seats or if is basing that on extrapolations of his poll results by sites like too close to call or 308.

I think it's based on his regional poll results and analysis of past results.
The Laval ridings listed have 20% or more people with mother tongue other than French which gives a good base to be competitive.

Louis-Hébert and Jean-Talon are held by cabinet ministers. Jean-Talon is considered a safe Liberal seat. The riding limits have changed though.

I wasn't expected to see Laporte (on the south shore of Montreal) in this list. Only 70% have French mother tongue. I looked at the result of 2007 that gave a liberal minority and Liberals won it 41-25-24.   

[Hash]

No mention of today's Crop poll?

PQ 33%
CAQ 28%
PLQ 26%
QS 7%
ON 3%
PVQ 2%